Icon A5 Splashes Down

Silvaire

Silvaire

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Silvaire
Just when you had yourself convinced that you don't need a $247,000 Light Sport amphibian the September issue of Flying Magazine publishes a pirep article on the A5 and you learn that not only does it have an AOA indicator, it also has a Land Airplane idiot light so you'll know just exactly what to do if something should go wrong while you're up there. :rolleyes:
 
Not a bad idea. I would hope that some other light would be flashing at the same time to quickly let you know exactly what the problem is. Kinda like a 'master caution' light in larger aircraft.

In the swift if I lost oil pressure it would probably take me a long time to notice it. I do make an effort to check oil temps, pressure and EGT/CHT regularly but if it suddenly dropped, there would be no highly visible light to tell me. The gauge is way over on the right side of the panel. There is a small LED that will light up if oil pressure drops.
 
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Silvaire said:
Just when you had yourself convinced that you don't need a $247,000 Light Sport amphibian the September issue of Flying Magazine publishes a pirep article on the A5 and you learn that not only does it have an AOA indicator, it also has a Land Airplane idiot light so you'll know just exactly what to do if something should go wrong while you're up there. :rolleyes:
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The time to start worrying is when the aircraft has a Pull Chute idiot light.
 
Flying had it. EAA magazine had it. AOPA magazine had it. All on the cover, and all essentially the same editorial angle, which largely parroted the Icon line of it being 'more of a powersports toy' than a traveling or practical aircraft.
AOPA and EAA sure looked like they did the photography on the same day, too.

Quite a literary lovefest, for sure.
Very interesting product. Very, very, very interesting marketing.
 
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Read the Sport Aviation article too,haven't seen the AOPA one but from the Flying article it sounds like they were all out there on the same day.
 
Looks like fun to me too. But, a $200,000+ jet ski with wings is a little steep. I could buy a really nice M.D. status symbol for that.
 
dell30rb said:
Not a bad idea. I would hope that some other light would be flashing at the same time to quickly let you know exactly what the problem is. Kinda like a 'master caution' light in larger aircraft.

In the swift if I lost oil pressure it would probably take me a long time to notice it. I do make an effort to check oil temps, pressure and EGT/CHT regularly but if it suddenly dropped, there would be no highly visible light to tell me. The gauge is way over on the right side of the panel. There is a small LED that will light up if oil pressure drops.
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The Master Caution light does not tell you exactly what the problem is. It only tells you that you have a problem and then you must look for other caution lights or indications to figure out what the exact problem is. Same for the Master Warning. They both have accompanying specific indications but are not themselves specific.
 
Silvaire said:
Read the Sport Aviation article too,haven't seen the AOPA one but from the Flying article it sounds like they were all out there on the same day.
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Water Flying also had an article. All the articles do a great job of selling it and though I might not ever buy one, I would love to get some time in one. :yes: But then if I did that, I'd probably want to buy one. :yes::yes:

Test flying can be dangerous to your bank account. :lol:
 
'...it also has a Land Airplane idiot light so you'll know just exactly what to do if something should go wrong while you're up there.'

"Your check engine light is on."

"Oh, I know - it's been on for quite a while."

"Well -- don't you think you should, you know - check your engine."

"Nah - it's been fine for months."

I really think you should - CHECK YOUR ENGINE!":rofl::rofl:
 
Silvaire said:
...it also has a Land Airplane idiot light so you'll know just exactly what to do if something should go wrong while you're up there. :rolleyes:
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Ya, it's just like a master caution or warning light in a larger passenger aircraft... Am I missing some terrible thing?

G-Man said:
Flying had it. EAA magazine had it. AOPA magazine had it. All on the cover, and all essentially the same editorial angle...
AOPA and EAA sure looked like they did the photography on the same day, too.

Quite a literary lovefest, for sure.
Very interesting product. Very, very, very interesting marketing.
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Yep, the same thing that CNN, CNBC, FoxNews and every other news company does... copy each other almost verbatim.

wilkersk said:
Looks like fun to me too. But, a $200,000+ jet ski with wings is a little steep. I could buy a really nice M.D. status symbol for that.
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Hmm, I disagree almost completely. You bet your ass it looks fun, and more importantly safe. Plus it was actually built with materials and techniques that aren't older than my grandparents.

So let's just clear some misinformation up here:
200k for an aircraft that will land on land or water, has a parachute, some of the best anti-stall characteristics ever created, doesn't cost you fifty ****ing dollars worth of fuel every hour, that has current avionics, fly's over 100kts and you can put on a trailer keep at home? Really?

You have fun paying for that crusty T-hangar with all the birds shatting and making nests on your airplane every month, looking at those analog gauges that you love paying to repair and flying that airplane that was built while Nixon was still in office. I'll take the Icon.

(Please don't take personally, I'm using your statement - which is a common one - to prove a point. It is not directed at you. I'm trying to get people to look at these things a little differently.)
 
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Archammer said:
Ya, it's just like a master caution or warning light in a larger passenger aircraft... Am I missing some terrible thing?



Yep, the same thing that CNN, CNBC, FoxNews and every other news company does... copy each other almost verbatim.



Hmm, I disagree almost completely. You bet your ass it looks fun, and more importantly safe. Plus it was actually built with materials and techniques that aren't older than my grandparents.

So let's just clear some misinformation up here:
200k for an aircraft that will land on land or water, has a parachute, some of the best anti-stall characteristics ever created, doesn't cost you fifty ****ing dollars worth of fuel every hour, that has current avionics, fly's over 100kts and you can put on a trailer keep at home? Really?

You have fun paying for that crusty T-hangar with all the birds shatting and making nests on your airplane every month, looking at those analog gauges that you love paying to repair and flying that airplane that was built while Nixon was still in office. I'll take the Icon.

(Please don't take personally, I'm using your statement - which is a common one - to prove a point. It is not directed at you. I'm trying to get people to look at these things a little differently.)
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:idea:
giphy.gif
 
G-Man said:
Flying had it. EAA magazine had it. AOPA magazine had it. All on the cover, and all essentially the same editorial angle, which largely parroted the Icon line of it being 'more of a powersports toy' than a traveling or practical aircraft.
AOPA and EAA sure looked like they did the photography on the same day, too.

Quite a literary lovefest, for sure.
Very interesting product. Very, very, very interesting marketing.
Click to expand...

This isn't exactly an industry snapping people's necks with new models coming out every year. So yeah, I'd expect a sleek sexy amphib to garner quite a bit of copy in the GA rags even if the Icon marketing team literally did nothing at all. Don't forget there are quite a few folks holding positions to buy, so they have as much of an incentive to hype up the marketplace (purchase positions are often bought and sold like stocks on Wall Street).
 
Nice plane,some good articles on the plane,not sure I would want to spend that much on a toy.
 
Archammer said:
Ya, it's just like a master caution or warning light in a larger passenger aircraft... Am I missing some terrible thing?



Yep, the same thing that CNN, CNBC, FoxNews and every other news company does... copy each other almost verbatim.



Hmm, I disagree almost completely. You bet your ass it looks fun, and more importantly safe. Plus it was actually built with materials and techniques that aren't older than my grandparents.

So let's just clear some misinformation up here:
200k for an aircraft that will land on land or water, has a parachute, some of the best anti-stall characteristics ever created, doesn't cost you fifty ****ing dollars worth of fuel every hour, that has current avionics, fly's over 100kts and you can put on a trailer keep at home? Really?

You have fun paying for that crusty T-hangar with all the birds shatting and making nests on your airplane every month, looking at those analog gauges that you love paying to repair and flying that airplane that was built while Nixon was still in office. I'll take the Icon.

(Please don't take personally, I'm using your statement - which is a common one - to prove a point. It is not directed at you. I'm trying to get people to look at these things a little differently.)
Click to expand...


Well said.
 
frfly172 said:
Nice plane,some good articles on the plane,not sure I would want to spend that much on a toy.
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Seriously, the vast majority of every airplane owner on this site owns a toy. Myself included. So it's all relative. I can't afford $200+K on a toy, but apparently I can afford about $80K on a plane in the end. To somebody with less money this is absolutely insane. I tend to agree, it is insane but I don't care at this point.

To the new Icon owners, more power to you !!! :thumbsup:
 
The reason all of the articles were so similar is that the writers were all invited to the same event to fly the airplane. They all flew the same set of demo flights with the company pilot and were all given the same spec sheet. They were all equally impressed. So what comes out are very similar reports. Is that surprising? Hardly.

Yeah, I'll concede the possibility that in an industry hungry for good news and hot new products that there might be a tendency to put an extra positive spin on things but in this case I am as certain as I can be without actually flying the thing that the praise is well deserved. Hopefully I will be able to make my own appraisal some day.
 
I think it's a slick little airplane and I think they did a heck of a job developing it. I don't care if it's a quarter million dollars because I'm not in the market for one anyway. I just thought, given the way they are promoting this thing as safe and easy, that a Land Airplane idiot light seemed kind of funny. If you miss the humor in that then you miss the humor, nothing more to it. :dunno:
 
I was impressed with it back when they promised to deliver it around $100k. Sure, a few people at the very front of the wait list are getting their plane for close to that(I've heard the actual number for early folk is ~$133k, depending). I was in the market at that price. I was in the market at $125, and maybe at 130k. I built in a bit of hubris in the marketing campaign a-la Jim Bede, so I figured it would be upwards of $125k, and that would be fine with me.

But - holy crap, quarter mil? Seriously, I can get a nice Aerostar and have a bunch left over for a decent amphib, and some money for gas as well. I mean, come on - if Toyota set out to market a new car, with lots of gew-gaws they might get the price off by 10 or 20% at most. But +100% over initial? Nuts. Nice plane, but for a quarter mil have a nice day.
 
Archammer said:
Hmm, I disagree almost completely....
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Yeah, ....let's just agree to disagree. A $200K+ price tag for an aircraft with that mission profile is just not a bargain to my way of thinking. I'd rather build a Searey (or buy one someone didn't complete), despite the parachute and the "SRA" design. I don't like the airbag option, or the reverse gear on the new GoldWings either.

Archammer said:
let's just clear some misinformation up here:.....
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its all a matter of perspective (or opinion).

Archammer said:
You have fun paying for that crusty T-hangar with all the birds shatting and making nests on your airplane every month, looking at those analog gauges that you love paying to repair and flying that airplane that was built while Nixon was still in office. I'll take the Icon.
Click to expand...

So, when do you take delivery?

Archammer said:
[/U][/I][/B](Please don't take personally, I'm using your statement- which is a common one - to prove a point.[/I]...
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You lost me there, ....what did you prove?

Looks fun. But, for a quarter million dollars, I want an IFR cross-country airplane with a bit more go.
 
docmirror said:
I was impressed with it back when they promised to deliver it around $100k. Sure, a few people at the very front of the wait list are getting their plane for close to that(I've heard the actual number for early folk is ~$133k, depending). I was in the market at that price. I was in the market at $125, and maybe at 130k. I built in a bit of hubris in the marketing campaign a-la Jim Bede, so I figured it would be upwards of $125k, and that would be fine with me.

But - holy crap, quarter mil? Seriously, I can get a nice Aerostar and have a bunch left over for a decent amphib, and some money for gas as well. I mean, come on - if Toyota set out to market a new car, with lots of gew-gaws they might get the price off by 10 or 20% at most. But +100% over initial? Nuts. Nice plane, but for a quarter mil have a nice day.
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Dude....you come on here all day everyday....with some kind of deal you hope to buy...but never buy...

Your comments are laughable....seriously...look at what you posted.
 
I thought the "Land Airplane" light meant the hull had sprung a leak. :D

Is there another one "Sea Airplane" when the gear won't come down? ;)

If I won Power Ball I'd get one.

Cheers
 
Old Geek said:
The time to start worrying is when the aircraft has a Pull Chute idiot light.
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Since the Cirrus CAPS system went from mechanical to electronic ignition, there has been talk of having parameters set in the AHRS that could automatically deploy CAPS in certain scenarios.

Think of it like airbags or ABS in cars - both activate automatically and work as designed most of the time.

Properly thought out and designed, such a system could certainly save lives. But many are not pleased with having this option automated. Count me in that group.
 
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Find a new seaplane that you buy for less. Kudos for the Icon folks and thinking a bit outside the box. I hope they're successful. Always nice to see new airplanes begin made, especially because they'll become used airplanes and may even become affordable to the likes of me.
 
steingar said:
Find a new seaplane that you buy for less. Kudos for the Icon folks and thinking a bit outside the box. I hope they're successful. Always nice to see new airplanes begin made, especially because they'll become used airplanes and may even become affordable to the likes of me.
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Seaplane is one thing, find a AMPHIBIAN for that price new, forgetabouttit
 
Which goes to my point. Comparing a new airplane to one that was made when I was a gleam in my parents eyes just isn't fair.
 
I think we're all looking at it the wrong way, as if Icon's success or failure depends on us, the unwashed masses. How many quarter million dollar tickets has Virgin Galactic lined up? and that's just for a two hour ride. There's plenty of money out there to buy these things.

I wonder who's gonna be the first one to land on the water with the gear down?

What about the idea of someone buying a fleet of them and renting them out like jet skis at a resort?
 
As cool as it is, it costs ten times more than I would be willing to pay for it.
 
I don't understand everyone complaining about the price. The market will decide if they're properly priced. Cub Crafters sells new amphib Cubs for over $300K. It's not as if those customers are working the airplanes in Alaska. They're expensive toys. People with that kind of money like brand new. They don't care about having some old Aerostar plus some old amphib plus a lot of gas money left over.
 
Silvaire said:
I wonder who's gonna be the first one to land on the water with the gear down?
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Well, supposedly, Icon will be. I read that they believe that the plane will not nose over and flip based on simulations I guess, but that they are planning to find out for real soon. I'm not sure how they are going to do it though. I'm sure there will be a video out as long as it doesn't flip. If it does flip, we'll have to hope somebody else tapes it, or leaks it.

To me that is the scariest thing about amphibians. In land plane with retractable gear, a gear up landing is a non event safety wise, but a gear down in water with an amphibian is often fatal. What's worse is, if you spend a lot of time landing on runways and on water, how do you ingrain a routine in your brain?

I can see a lot of these new 20 hour Icon pilots landing both gear up on land and gear down on water. It seems they could develop a sensor that measures the reflection of the surface you are trying to land on and if it is highly reflective and the gear is down, the plane screams at you. If it's non reflective and the gear is up, the plane screams at you. It may give you false warning on a rain covered runway, but you could be able to over ride the alarm with a switch.
 
Wonder how many of the Icon enthusiasts/apologists here are plunking down the coin?

Bueller?
 
RoscoeT said:
I don't understand everyone complaining about the price. The market will decide if they're properly priced. Cub Crafters sells new amphib Cubs for over $300K. It's not as if those customers are working the airplanes in Alaska. They're expensive toys. People with that kind of money like brand new. They don't care about having some old Aerostar plus some old amphib plus a lot of gas money left over.
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Exactly! :yes: They're also not going to take 5-10 years and build themselves a Sea Ray. Some of the people buying these already have a Gulfstream in the hangar for cross countries.
 
docmirror said:
Wonder how many of the Icon enthusiasts/apologists here are plunking down the coin?

Bueller?
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That isn't fair either. The business model will succeed or fail, no one knows which. I just think that 200 grand for a brand spanking new amphibian i snot out of line. New airplanes are expensive, they all are. I hope that doesn't mean no one will buy them, because that'll be the end of general aviation eventually.
 
Dav8or said:
I guess over 1000 of them, they just don't post here I guess. Maybe they will one day.
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Really? 1000 orders at current market price?

:nono:

I think the 1000 number is a pipe dream, and what orders they do have are folks that bought in way before the escalation in price. They are building back orders for +3 years if I recall.
 
If they are well funded now, it will be interesting to see if they can ramp up mfg to take advantage of some bulk pricing on materials. I would love to see them get the price back down below $200k but seriously doubt that could happen even with a 1000 parts in the pipeline.
 
Dav8or said:
It seems they could develop a sensor that measures the reflection of the surface you are trying to land on and if it is highly reflective and the gear is down, the plane screams at you. If it's non reflective and the gear is up, the plane screams at you. It may give you false warning on a rain covered runway, but you could be able to over ride the alarm with a switch.
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How about linking to a GPS, with an algorithm to determine whether the plane is over water or over land? Alarm goes off if the gear is set incorrectly.

Not going to be perfect, but could still help a lot.
 
I ran into an old friend of mine at a trade show recently. He is just a hard working, but very successful businessman. His current and long time hobby has been racing a Ferrari. He's got a deposit down on an Icon and doesn't even have a Private Certificate yet.
 
FastEddieB said:
How about linking to a GPS, with an algorithm to determine whether the plane is over water or over land? Alarm goes off if the gear is set incorrectly.

Not going to be perfect, but could still help a lot.
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There are plenty of systems now which will say in once voice, "gear is up for water" or a different voice "gear is down for land".


Besides didn't icon have a video where they tested landing it on the water with the gear down?




docmirror said:
Wonder how many of the Icon enthusiasts/apologists here are plunking down the coin?

Bueller?
Click to expand...

I'm sure it will sell. Plenty of new aircraft with far less tech and thought into their designs, and far less fun to fly, selling everyday.


As far as me plunking down the coin, I have a 185 amphib, so I'm not in the market, nor would most icon folks be in the market for a 185 amphib, different missions, different demographics.

If I was in the buying a new plane demographic, and was like many of those folks who just wanted to fly for enjoyment or a short little hop once in a while, solo or with the wife (see retired with kids away at school/working/etc), sure I'd buy it, it would be a fun little plane, I could avoid all the BS airport security crap which many folks with 200k will not tolerate, they could keep it at their summer house garage, it looks cool and has more safety feature than a cirrus, doesn't look scary or complicated inside, nice view and appears easy to get in or out of.

I don't think icon needs anyone to apologize for them :dunno:
 
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