Airbus A320 Down

put a head in the cockpit also a coffee pot and microwave. Very sad event, prayers to all those affected by this tragedy.
 
Henning said:
There is one cockpit camera technology I see beneficial in another capacity though, and that is sleep sensing. Facial recognition technology and a little dash cam can sense when a pilot starts dozing and give them a wake up tone. Doesn't need any recording technology to be functional really. You can probably build the whole rig for $250 + software.
Click to expand...
Already done... sort of... The 777 has a "Pilot Awareness Monitor." If a knob isn't turned or a button isn't pressed on the MCP after a predetermined amount of time, you'll get a aural Caution alert, if there still isn't a response, it'll upgrade to a aural Warning alert. You just have to touch something on the MCP every one in a while so the plane knows you're still there and awake.
 
Yeah, but how does the pilot know if the plane's still there and awake? B)
 
TEFLONSEAN said:
9/11 knee jerk reaction .....is a factor in this crash.
Click to expand...
This is what gets me after this tragedy. Everything is a knee jerk reaction with aviation, because of the scale of the deaths in one incident.

If you figure there are on average 90,000 airline flights each day. We're talking, what, 5 events since Silk Air in 1997. That's approximately 590 million airline flights in those 18 years, with 5 crashing due to a rogue pilot. So we're talking 0.000000847% of airline flights have had this happen since Silk Air, and the news media is running around screaming "We've got to do something about this!!!" and the general public is buying it. Psychologically evaluate all pilots every 6 months! Put an extra pilot in! Pull all the pilots out! Put cameras in the cockpit! DO SOMETHING! It boggles my mind that we are spinning around in circles trying to solve a problem that really doesn't even exist, all because the talking heads on TV are frothing at the mouth.

I'm done...

Who wants that beer? First round's on me!
 
Sluggo63 said:
This is what gets me after this tragedy. Everything is a knee jerk reaction with aviation, because of the scale of the deaths in one incident.

If you figure there are on average 90,000 airline flights each day. We're talking, what, 5 events since Silk Air in 1997. That's approximately 590 million airline flights in those 18 years, with 5 crashing due to a rogue pilot. So we're talking 0.000000847% of airline flights have had this happen since Silk Air, and the news media is running around screaming "We've got to do something about this!!!" and the general public is buying it. Psychologically evaluate all pilots every 6 months! Put an extra pilot in! Pull all the pilots out! Put cameras in the cockpit! DO SOMETHING! It boggles my mind that we are spinning around in circles trying to solve a problem that really doesn't even exist, all because the talking heads on TV are frothing at the mouth.

I'm done...

Who wants that beer? First round's on me!
Click to expand...

People on Yahoo comment threads about the accident before we knew it was pilot suicide were saying that black boxes should be stronger and able to withstand more damage.

And that they should be able to eject them from the plane before impact to prevent damage and that after flying for so long that no one has thought to improve it. Yeah, not like they are built to withstand like 3400g and 20k feet of water. I got dragged into some of the comments and beaten to death with stupidity and ignorance. One said that the crash wouldn't have happened if they were using meters instead of feet. Because that would logically increase the altitude they were flying at and give them more time to recover...

I'll see your first round and raise you a second.
 
Sluggo63 said:
This is what gets me after this tragedy. Everything is a knee jerk reaction with aviation, because of the scale of the deaths in one incident.

If you figure there are on average 90,000 airline flights each day. We're talking, what, 5 events since Silk Air in 1997. That's approximately 590 million airline flights in those 18 years, with 5 crashing due to a rogue pilot. So we're talking 0.000000847% of airline flights have had this happen since Silk Air, and the news media is running around screaming "We've got to do something about this!!!" and the general public is buying it. Psychologically evaluate all pilots every 6 months! Put an extra pilot in! Pull all the pilots out! Put cameras in the cockpit! DO SOMETHING! It boggles my mind that we are spinning around in circles trying to solve a problem that really doesn't even exist, all because the talking heads on TV are frothing at the mouth.

I'm done...

Who wants that beer? First round's on me!
Click to expand...

It does exist though. Pilots bring down more aircraft than anything else. The problem is the knee jerk reactions that do happen are not ones that can possibly solve anything, and typically they make something worse. It because the knee jerk, feel good, band aid is always the cheapest thing that can be done to prevent the particular event, rather than the action that addresses the root.

Pilots aren't going to come out of the cockpit for safety reasons, safety reasons were the last excuse they're there. Pilots are coming out of the cockpit because it will save the industry billions of dollars a year and will make airlines more profitable.
 
Henning said:
It does exist though. Pilots bring down more aircraft than anything else. The problem is the knee jerk reactions that do happen are not ones that can possibly solve anything, and typically they make something worse. It because the knee jerk, feel good, band aid is always the cheapest thing that can be done to prevent the particular event, rather than the action that addresses the root.

Pilots aren't going to come out of the cockpit for safety reasons, safety reasons were the last excuse they're there. Pilots are coming out of the cockpit because it will save the industry billions of dollars a year and will make airlines more profitable.
Click to expand...

Fortunately there is still a need for bilge cleaners, you'll be safe for quite a while.....:rolleyes:
 
Maybe we need to increase the population in the cockpits - perhaps well armed flight engineers.
 
Sluggo63 said:
This is what gets me after this tragedy. Everything is a knee jerk reaction with aviation, because of the scale of the deaths in one incident.

If you figure there are on average 90,000 airline flights each day. We're talking, what, 5 events since Silk Air in 1997. That's approximately 590 million airline flights in those 18 years, with 5 crashing due to a rogue pilot. So we're talking 0.000000847% of airline flights have had this happen since Silk Air, and the news media is running around screaming "We've got to do something about this!!!" and the general public is buying it. Psychologically evaluate all pilots every 6 months! Put an extra pilot in! Pull all the pilots out! Put cameras in the cockpit! DO SOMETHING! It boggles my mind that we are spinning around in circles trying to solve a problem that really doesn't even exist, all because the talking heads on TV are frothing at the mouth.

I'm done...

Who wants that beer? First round's on me!
Click to expand...


Great post and very enlightening numbers.....

My gut feeling is fellow pilots should keep an eye out for mentally unstable crew mates and the airlines need a mechanism to be able to report weird and unusual thought processes....

You guys/gals sit very close / next to each other for hours at the time.. One would think the strange players would stick out like a sore thumb...:dunno:
 
Last edited:
Sluggo63 said:
I'm done...
Click to expand...
I lied
Henning said:
Pilots bring down more aircraft than anything else.
Click to expand...
True. More accidents are caused by human error than any other system. But that's not the point. How many benign events are kept from cascading into major events every day just because the pilot is sitting there. Did you ever have an autopilot kick off in cruise flight? I have. Multiple times. Just sitting chatting and all of a sudden the autopilot disconnect alarm sounds. Grab the yoke, stabilize the airplane, and try to put the autopilot back on. Comes back on... great. We just look at each other and say "that was weird," and continue on our conversation. No news media meeting us when we land thanking us for saving the day. Just us going to the hotel for a beer.

Henning said:
Pilots are coming out of the cockpit because it will save the industry billions of dollars a year and will make airlines more profitable.
Click to expand...
How. Nobody has been able to explain to me how the worldwide upgrades to aircraft and infrastructure that will allow sufficient redundancy to have pilotless aircraft will save the industry billions. They'll spend trillions trying to save billions. Hey you know what... that sounds like something an airline CEO would do... you might be on to something...
 
Actually I think the government should require ALL automobiles to have cameras installed (inside and dash cams) that can be monitored by the police at any time.

This will definitely help reduce auto accidents and also alert police if someone runs a red light, stop sign, speeding, etc. :rolleyes:
 
I don't worry about airline security or even the pilots much because I know just how safe those flights actually are. I've looked up the statistics on terrorism and I know I have more to fear from being hit by lightning than I do from terrorism.

We may very well be safer in an airliner than in our own homes so what is it about air travel that makes the public, the media, and the politicians panic? Is it because when something does happen it's a much larger loss of life than we're used to from the usual suspects of car accidents, illness, etc? Is it because airplanes are magic and scary? Tribalism amplifying our fears of terrorism? All of the above?

Or maybe just the indignity of dying right after being lead through a bunch of cattle chutes, having your civil rights violated, and being jammed into a sardine can with a 100 strangers for several hours is too much for us? This last one I can believe...
 
timwinters said:
262114d1378728095t-official-everyfin-do-playbook-hijack-thread-tumblr_md72bgmikf1qfpaqdo1_400.jpg


:thumbsup:
Click to expand...

Even on ignore, his drivel pollutes and dilutes the value of the forum:

16767761788_2950f90a7f_z.jpg


Speaking for myself, I cannot think of a single thing he's added to this thread. And about a quarter of the posts end up just countering his nonsense.

Oh, well...
 
cowman said:
I don't worry about airline security or even the pilots much because I know just how safe those flights actually are. I've looked up the statistics on terrorism and I know I have more to fear from being hit by lightning than I do from terrorism.

We may very well be safer in an airliner than in our own homes so what is it about air travel that makes the public, the media, and the politicians panic? Is it because when something does happen it's a much larger loss of life than we're used to from the usual suspects of car accidents, illness, etc? Is it because airplanes are magic and scary? Tribalism amplifying our fears of terrorism? All of the above?

Or maybe just the indignity of dying right after being lead through a bunch of cattle chutes, having your civil rights violated, and being jammed into a sardine can with a 100 strangers for several hours is too much for us? This last one I can believe...
Click to expand...


I was hit by lightning when I was younger. Well... In a car.
Wonder if that lowers the odds of being in a plane crash. Because what are the odds of both of those remote things happening to the same person.

I also wonder why the airplane crash is such a terribly way to go.
I think it is because in most cases you know it is coming, people are not in control. Maybe because people are scared of flying to begin with so you go into it with fear and then when it happens, it feeds that fear.
 
Its a 32 page thread that was seeded with speculation.
What is it supposed to grow into?
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I was hit by lightning when I was younger. Well... In a car.
Wonder if that lowers the odds of being in a plane crash. Because what are the odds of both of those remote things happening to the same person.
Click to expand...

You might have to ask a statistician on that but I think from your perspective those are both discreet events so one does not necessarily change another. However, the odds of finding a person who has had both happen to them would be less because both discreet events would have to occur I think.

I also wonder why the airplane crash is such a terribly way to go.
I think it is because in most cases you know it is coming, people are not in control. Maybe because people are scared of flying to begin with so you go into it with fear and then when it happens, it feeds that fear.
Click to expand...

Yeah that resonates a little- going out and knowing it will happen without being able to do anything is the scariest thing I can think of. Knowing statistics doesn't necessarily help our animal level fear response but it ought to help our logical decision making and I feel like that's where we as a society go off the rails quite a bit with these issues.
 
Sluggo63 said:
I lied
True. More accidents are caused by human error than any other system. But that's not the point. How many benign events are kept from cascading into major events every day just because the pilot is sitting there. Did you ever have an autopilot kick off in cruise flight? I have. Multiple times. Just sitting chatting and all of a sudden the autopilot disconnect alarm sounds. Grab the yoke, stabilize the airplane, and try to put the autopilot back on. Comes back on... great. We just look at each other and say "that was weird," and continue on our conversation. No news media meeting us when we land thanking us for saving the day. Just us going to the hotel for a beer.

How. Nobody has been able to explain to me how the worldwide upgrades to aircraft and infrastructure that will allow sufficient redundancy to have pilotless aircraft will save the industry billions. They'll spend trillions trying to save billions. Hey you know what... that sounds like something an airline CEO would do... you might be on to something...
Click to expand...


The money has already been spent. The systems have already been developed. The entire surface of the globe was mapped by the Space Shuttle to millimeter levels of accuracy. Automation already shows superior performance. We already have trials going on where ATC contacts the plane at altitude, uploads it the approach profile, then the plane stay up high and fuel efficient until it can chop the power and make a descent straight to the threshold with no level off. This saves thousands of dollars of fuel per flight, and it all happens automatically. We've been doing it for like a decade now and it works well.

2 years after Amazon implements their drone delivery service, we will have autonomous air carrier aircraft.
 
N801BH said:
If you guys/gals are going by the book and doing NOTHING wrong... What the hell are you scared of ..:dunno::dunno::dunno::confused::confused:
Click to expand...
"If you're doing nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about".
N801BH said:
That is another point worth bringing up.....

It was a 2 hour flight.... You would think a healthy Captain could take a leak before the flight and be able to hold it till he lands 120 minutes later...:dunno::dunno::confused:
Click to expand...
How much coffee did he have?
 
ollopa said:
Don't overconstrain the problem space. We're talking about when one dude leaves the cockpit for a reason -- maybe most typically to take a leak.

http://news.aviation-safety.net/2013/12/22/list-of-aircraft-accidents-caused-by-pilot-suicide/
Click to expand...

Similar. I wasn't trying to over constrain or put too tight a limit on the problem.

Yes, pilots have driven aircraft into the ground when left alone. So don't leave anyone alone - like we already do in the US.

But this is the first time I'm aware of (maybe it has happenned) that a pilot barricaded himself alone in the cockpot and put it in.
 
Henning said:
The money has already been spent. The systems have already been developed. The entire surface of the globe was mapped by the Space Shuttle to millimeter levels of accuracy. Automation already shows superior performance. We already have trials going on where ATC contacts the plane at altitude, uploads it the approach profile, then the plane stay up high and fuel efficient until it can chop the power and make a descent straight to the threshold with no level off. This saves thousands of dollars of fuel per flight, and it all happens automatically. We've been doing it for like a decade now and it works well.

2 years after Amazon implements their drone delivery service, we will have autonomous air carrier aircraft.
Click to expand...

FTFY:

tumblr_ms7hobKI8K1s7qm1mo1_500.gif
 
Matthew said:
Similar. I wasn't trying to over constrain or put too tight a limit on the problem.

Yes, pilots have driven aircraft into the ground when left alone. So don't leave anyone alone - like we already do in the US.

But this is the first time I'm aware of (maybe it has happenned) that a pilot barricaded himself alone in the cockpot and put it in.
Click to expand...

There was a crash in Africa where the pilot apparently locked the FO out.
 
Henning said:
The money has already been spent. The systems have already been developed.
Click to expand...
Really. So what is the ready-for-issue system to detect and avoid non-participating aircraft?

Henning said:
Automation already shows superior performance.
Click to expand...
There is a tremendous gap in both technology and public acceptance between cockpit automation and autonomy.

Nauga,
and his FBM
 
Last edited:
overdrive148 said:
People on Yahoo comment threads about the accident before we knew it was pilot suicide were saying that black boxes should be stronger and able to withstand more damage.
Click to expand...
Hah. As early as post 38 in this very thread "pilots" were speculating on causes of this crash based on a single photograph of the wrong crash site.
We got us some astute experts here.

Nauga,
who had to look up how to spell "flabbergasted"
 
nauga said:
Hah. As early as post 38 in this very thread "pilots" were speculating on causes of this crash based on a single photograph of the wrong crash site.
We got us some astute experts here.

Nauga,
who had to look up how to spell "flabbergasted"
Click to expand...

GI-GO applies everywhere...
 
Come on guys we're almost to 1k posts in this thread. You can do it. I believeeee in youuuuuuuu
 
cowman said:
Come on guys we're almost to 1k posts in this thread. You can do it. I believeeee in youuuuuuuu
Click to expand...

I'm holding up my end and Henning is certainly contributing. There are some slackers out there and worse yet are the inhibitors. You know who you are! Now get with the team and help us get it across the goal line!
 
nauga said:
Hah. As early as post 38 in this very thread "pilots" were speculating on causes of this crash based on a single photograph of the wrong crash site.
We got us some astute experts here.

Nauga,
who had to look up how to spell "flabbergasted"
Click to expand...

Looking at the context of that post, its author was asked to define "falling out of the sky." It appears to me that the photo was intended to illustrate that concept. I don't think he meant it to be taken as a photo of this accident.
 
Clark1961 said:
I'm holding up my end and Henning is certainly contributing. There are some slackers out there and worse yet are the inhibitors. You know who you are! Now get with the team and help us get it across the goal line!
Click to expand...

I tried to abandon thread but Henning's negative post count has created implosive recompression :eek:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top