Talk me out of a Cadillac CTS-V ? ...

NJP_MAN said:
My guess is he was referring to the Catera
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No. The Cadillac Cimmaron was a badge engineered Chevy Cavalier

Cadillac-



i551609.jpg


Chevrolet-

002.jpg


The Catera was a badge engineered Opel. Also a bad idea.
 
Dav8or said:
No. The Cadillac Cimmaron was a badge engineered Chevy Cavalier

Cadillac-



i551609.jpg


Chevrolet-

002.jpg


The Catera was a badge engineered Opel. Also a bad idea.
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Yeah, there it is, the Cimarron. The Catera looks like the Opel Senator, but uglier.
 
Henning said:
There was nothing wrong with that engine, I never figured out where people had a problem with them.:dunno: I was driving a Coupe deVille with one of those for a while back in the day because you could buy them with the V-8-6-4 at the auction for nothing 6 months old, you only paid slightly more than for a Diesel Caddy or Olds 88 or 98 fully loaded. Most of the time just swap in a 403 Olds gas engine and run it back through the auction and make a quick turn on the money. But the 8-6-4 I just drove that sucker for a while. Down the highway it was getting 22-24 mpg.
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My memory was that it was a reliability and warranty nightmare. Like I said, it was a great idea, but too soon in execution. Actually, that is one of GM's greatest talents, coming up with new technology. Sadly, they are really poor at implementation a lot of times.
 
Dav8or said:
My memory was that it was a reliability and warranty nightmare. Like I said, it was a great idea, but too soon in execution. Actually, that is one of GM's greatest talents, coming up with new technology. Sadly, they are really poor at implementation a lot of times.
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"Great idea boys, now make it cheaper..."
 
Dav8or said:
I hate to break it to you but... no. You are living a fantasy not supported in fact. Here is fact-

The Top 100 Lap Times at Nurburgring

Interesting facts about this list-

  1. The Porsche Cayman, or Boxster aren't on it at all.
  2. The Caddy is the only four door sedan to make the list.
  3. The Caddy did it back in 2009. The current car is way more capable.
  4. Other surprises include Camaros and Mustangs kicking the **** out of some very expensive and highly specialized European cars.
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I'm sorry, but did you actually read the list? The Audi RS4 is a highly developed four door performance sedan that is derived from a chassis that came out in 2001 known as the 8E.

#94. Audi RS4, 7:58.00, 2005

#99. Cadillac CTS-V, 7:59.32, 2009.


Audi tests their cars on the Nürburgring as part of normal production car development. They don't set lap times as part of a factory backed publicity stunt effort like Camaro & Mustang using R compound tires, racing brake pads, and professional racing drivers to achieve low lap times.

Anyway, laptimes are only one facet of car performance and tells you nothing about how the car is like to live with every day.
 
MSPAviator said:
I'm sorry, but did you actually read the list? The Audi RS4 is a highly developed four door performance sedan that is derived from a chassis that came out in 2001 known as the 8E.

#94. Audi RS4, 7:58.00, 2005

#99. Cadillac CTS-V, 7:59.32, 2009.


Audi tests their cars on the Nürburgring as part of normal production car development. They don't set lap times as part of a factory backed publicity stunt effort like Camaro & Mustang using R compound tires, racing brake pads, and professional racing drivers to achieve low lap times.

Anyway, laptimes are only one facet of car performance and tells you nothing about how the car is like to live with every day.
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Very true, most European luxury sedans are an expensive PITA to live with.:rofl:
 
MSPAviator said:
I'm sorry, but did you actually read the list? The Audi RS4 is a highly developed four door performance sedan that is derived from a chassis that came out in 2001 known as the 8E.

#94. Audi RS4, 7:58.00, 2005

#99. Cadillac CTS-V, 7:59.32, 2009.
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Sorry, missed that one. Cadillac is one of two four door sedans on the list. I am corrected.

Audi tests their cars on the Nürburgring as part of normal production car development. They don't set lap times as part of a factory backed publicity stunt effort like Camaro & Mustang using R compound tires, racing brake pads, and professional racing drivers to achieve low lap times.
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Oh yes, of course. All the other cars on the list are standard off the lot cars with stock all weather tires and amateur drivers they got off Craigslist. Sorry, I forgot. :rolleyes2:

Anyway, laptimes are only one facet of car performance and tells you nothing about how the car is like to live with every day.
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This is true. This is what the test drive at the dealership is for.
 
MSPAviator said:
I'm sorry, but did you actually read the list? The Audi RS4 is a highly developed four door performance sedan that is derived from a chassis that came out in 2001 known as the 8E.

#94. Audi RS4, 7:58.00, 2005

#99. Cadillac CTS-V, 7:59.32, 2009.
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And

#76 Porsche Panamera Turbo S
#85 BMW M5
#89 Porsche Panamera Turbo

In fact I wouldn't be talking about the Nurburgring laptimes when boasting about the CTS-V. It barely made the list. And anyway any big fat bloated four door car is not of interest if you actually want to go around a track.
 
Henning said:
Hmmm, ok, could have sworn my neighbor had a Citation with Caddie badges, long ago though.

The Eldorados, Toronados, and Rivieras were FWD since 67, those were cool cars at the beginning. IIRC there was a '59 Eldorado 'Concept Car' that made the circuit that was also FWD.
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You're right about the Toronado (FWD from its introduction in 1966) and Eldorado ('67) but the Riviera didn't go wrong-wheel-drive until the E-body model was introduced in 1979.

Just guessing, but the "Citation with Caddie badges" may have been a slantback Seville. From 50 paces, I can kinda see a resemblance.
 
docmirror said:
Well, peckerhead - I've forgotten more about Porsches than you will ever learn in your lifetime.

http://jalopnik.com/porsche-cayman-gt4-this-is-it-1683600199

I'm not buying a Caddie doof - the OP asked about it until you came in here and bloviated all over this thread about your mom's Porsche with the auto trans.
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I've owned four over the years, my latest being the most fun, a cayman. The others were 911s. 2 were manual. Your immature rant is not important. If you order the new 911 tubo S, 560 hp, 197 mph,0 - 60 in 2.9 sec. It's only available with a PDK $182, 700.00 I'm suggesting he try a cayman and leave moms car, the miserable caddy at home for her to blunder around in.
 
You guys are talking about similar powered cars with the Porsche's cantina or cantman or whatever it is, and BMW's beating the Cadillac, but can they beat it's price?

An M5 commands a $20K premium over a CTS-V.

And you say a Porsche is $182K? The GD thing better have wings that pop out of it and fly an ILS for that price .... :rolleyes2:
 
txflyer said:
You guys are talking about similar powered cars with the Porsche's cantina or cantman or whatever it is, and BMW's beating the Cadillac, but can they beat it's price?

An M5 commands a $20K premium over a CTS-V.

And you say a Porsche is $182K? The GD thing better have wings that pop out of it and fly an ILS for that price .... :rolleyes2:
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I'm told by the dealer that for some ,( many doctors, ) this price is not a problem and often times they do not finance, especially for a 911 around 120 thousand. How about fifty grand for a 50 year old cessna 172?!
 
Jimmy cooper said:
I'm told by the dealer that for some ,( many doctors, ) this price is not a problem and often times they do not finance, especially for a 911 around 120 thousand. How about fifty grand for a 50 year old cessna 172?!
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And I could go pay $120,000.00 for a high powered roping horse that a $500.00 sale barn nag would do the same thing.

It just goes to show...

Rich people buy dumb stuff. :rolleyes:
 
narchee said:
And

#76 Porsche Panamera Turbo S
#85 BMW M5
#89 Porsche Panamera Turbo

In fact I wouldn't be talking about the Nurburgring laptimes when boasting about the CTS-V. It barely made the list. And anyway any big fat bloated four door car is not of interest if you actually want to go around a track.
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I was responding to an earlier post that claimed a Porsche Cayman would leave the CTS-V coupe in the dust when it came to some curves. Do you see the Porsche Cayman or Boxster anywhere on that list?

Also I'll point out that the OP is desiring a CTS-V coupe, a car that to my knowledge has never been to Nurburgring. It has more power and likely a stiffer chassis and I'm guessing it could best the time of the four door back in '09, but it is only speculation.

Now let's talk value-

2015 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe $71,000
2015 Porsche Panamera Turbo $142,000
2015 Porsche Panamera Turbo S $180,000
2015 BMW M5 $94,000

Isn't it worth it to save a few bucks if you like the way the car looks and you're happy with the way it drives? Like I said, I can't talk the guy out of it. Take the $109,000 you saved by giving up that potential 7.32 seconds you might lose on the Nurburgring and buy another airplane. :yes: You will have a car well beyond your capability, light up your life and not need a second mortgage.
 
This thread was making progress until someone came in and urinated all over it with some German spooge.
 
I can't say I'm being real practical wanting a 500h.p. coupe, but for the difference in price from all the others in it's class, I can fuel the car, insure the car, maintain the car and probably have money left over after it's gone.

And I can stay right on their bumpers while doing it.

It's like a Lancair vs. Corvalis. Same performance, same class, $400,000.00 difference.
 
txflyer said:
I can't say I'm being real practical wanting a 500h.p. coupe, but for the difference in price from all the others in it's class, I can fuel the car, insure the car, maintain the car and probably have money left over after it's gone.

And I can stay right on their bumpers while doing it.

It's like a Lancair vs. Corvalis. Same performance, same class, $400,000.00 difference.
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And a Honda accord will be right on your bumper. Unless you commute on the Nurburing. It is all ego, stop silly rationalizing and buy the thing.
 
ClimbnSink said:
And a Honda accord will be right on your bumper. Unless you commute on the Nurburing. It is all ego, stop silly rationalizing and buy the thing.
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It's not all ego. Cars in our culture represent a person's station in life to so many people. And by the grace of good fortune, we're at that station.

I don't know what you fly, but pretend I showed up in one of our old beat up farm trucks to look at your $500K Cirrus or other high dollar item. What would your honest initial opinion be? Even if I got out of that old farm truck wearing Armani, it would be queer and not register logically.

Now imagine a new high power expensive car, and I exit in old worn out bermuda shorts and flip flops on. See how cars influence your judge a book by it's cover brain? We're categorized by the cars we drive before you ever open your mouth. ;)
 
That attitude is old and oversold. Around here all the luxury cars are driven by minorities. No one else cares anymore. Cars as status symbols have jumped the shark.
 
docmirror said:
This thread was making progress until someone came in and urinated all over it with some German spooge.
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Maybe that was me. If it makes you feel any better, when i worked in engineering at BMW we'd go to the Nurburgring and drive it for fun, it is often open to the public. My boss would take an M3 and a couple of us junior engineers would have our suzuki gsx-r's. We could beat him but we usually let him win. Being an american on a japanese bike didn't win many friends.

Some of the fastest lap times i personally witnessed were in golf gti's. That car is a lot of performance for the money.
 
txflyer said:
It's not all ego. Cars in our culture represent a person's station in life to so many people. And by the grace of good fortune, we're at that station.

I don't know what you fly, but pretend I showed up in one of our old beat up farm trucks to look at your $500K Cirrus or other high dollar item. What would your honest initial opinion be? Even if I got out of that old farm truck wearing Armani, it would be queer and not register logically.

Now imagine a new high power expensive car, and I exit in old worn out bermuda shorts and flip flops on. See how cars influence your judge a book by it's cover brain? We're categorized by the cars we drive before you ever open your mouth. ;)
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I dont view people like that. The only real life billionaire that i know personally, drives himself in an old toyota camry. And the guy who owns this king air we fly, drives one of the most beat-up farm trucks you've ever seen.
 
Dav8or said:
I was responding to an earlier post that claimed a Porsche Cayman would leave the CTS-V coupe in the dust when it came to some curves. Do you see the Porsche Cayman or Boxster anywhere on that list?

Also I'll point out that the OP is desiring a CTS-V coupe, a car that to my knowledge has never been to Nurburgring. It has more power and likely a stiffer chassis and I'm guessing it could best the time of the four door back in '09, but it is only speculation.

Now let's talk value-

2015 Cadillac CTS-V Coupe $71,000
2015 Porsche Panamera Turbo $142,000
2015 Porsche Panamera Turbo S $180,000
2015 BMW M5 $94,000

Isn't it worth it to save a few bucks if you like the way the car looks and you're happy with the way it drives? Like I said, I can't talk the guy out of it. Take the $109,000 you saved by giving up that potential 7.32 seconds you might lose on the Nurburgring and buy another airplane. :yes: You will have a car well beyond your capability, light up your life and not need a second mortgage.
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A few bucks? You save an airplane's worth. Having grown up with track perforance cars on the street, all I can say is "It's a real PITA to drive them and keep them running right, because you can't run them hard enough."
 
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txflyer said:
It's not all ego. Cars in our culture represent a person's station in life to so many people. And by the grace of good fortune, we're at that station.

I don't know what you fly, but pretend I showed up in one of our old beat up farm trucks to look at your $500K Cirrus or other high dollar item. What would your honest initial opinion be? Even if I got out of that old farm truck wearing Armani, it would be queer and not register logically.

Now imagine a new high power expensive car, and I exit in old worn out bermuda shorts and flip flops on. See how cars influence your judge a book by it's cover brain? We're categorized by the cars we drive before you ever open your mouth. ;)
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Oh no, I gave up on that long ago.:rofl: Don Gompertz was the first billionaire I knew and if you didn't know it, you'd think he was homeless. He wore clothes that made sense and drove what made sense. If you are concerned with what other's impression is, you are typically in a better situation if they underestimate.

Most people buying a yacht look like beach bums when they come onboard to view it, and these are $10,000,000+, not $100,000.
 
ClimbnSink said:
That attitude is old and oversold. Around here all the luxury cars are driven by minorities. No one else cares anymore. Cars as status symbols have jumped the shark.
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Some of us just like to drive what we like to drive. :dunno:

When I was looking at cars (I was tired of the Z06) I knew the V was what I wanted but I was having such a hard time finding the one I wanted. I considered GT500's, Audi S5's and 6's, BMW M3's and 5's. I was close to buying a GT500 because they were fairly inexpensive and had most of what I wanted. If the V got totaled today I'd probably buy a GT500 until I could find a replacement V. I could care less what someone thinks of the car I drive, or the airplane I fly, it's what I like. And you should be picking a car based on your needs and wants, not the opinions of a group of people on the internet.
 
Z06_Mir said:
I could care less what someone thinks of the car I drive, or the airplane I fly, it's what I like. And you should be picking a car based on your needs and wants, not the opinions of a group of people on the internet.
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I agree for the most part, but still, it's nice to drive something that other people appreciate as well. Otherwise we'd all be living in straw houses.

It's been six years since I've enjoyed the new car smell. I'm kind of jonesing for a new Chevy Colorado right now.
 
Are you sure you are driving it for you? If so cool, if not only like minded try harders are impressed.
Z06_Mir said:
Some of us just like to drive what we like to drive. :dunno:

When I was looking at cars (I was tired of the Z06) I knew the V was what I wanted but I was having such a hard time finding the one I wanted. I considered GT500's, Audi S5's and 6's, BMW M3's and 5's. I was close to buying a GT500 because they were fairly inexpensive and had most of what I wanted. If the V got totaled today I'd probably buy a GT500 until I could find a replacement V. I could care less what someone thinks of the car I drive, or the airplane I fly, it's what I like. And you should be picking a car based on your needs and wants, not the opinions of a group of people on the internet.
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ClimbnSink said:
stop silly rationalizing and buy the thing.
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I totally agree with this part. There is no rational for a car like this other than you want one. So go get it. Buying it to impress the neighbors and your friends is the lamest rational of all. If you truly have "arrived" and are comfortable with your wealth, you really shouldn't give a rat's booty what other people think about you. If you're still climbing some ladder professionally, or in sales, than maybe it does matter, I don't know.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
Me too, but I'm going to wait a couple years for them to shake the bugs out of the design.
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Here they sell the izuzu dmax truck and holden (GM) colorado clones into the same marketplace against each other. It's sort of amusing to see people debate which is better. Ditto the ford ranger / mazda BT50.

I'm not much for GM products these days but the ones built by isuzu should be ok. I have an holden-badged isuzu SUV and aside from being thirsty (mines not a diesel) it's very maintenance-friendly designed, and does great off road.
 
I'll let y'all know if I get it.

I mainly started the thread to see if a bunch of people said ... Oh Hell No! it's a piece of crap! ... and I've got my answer.

The rest of the talk has been penis measuring and envious psychobabble, so maybe I'll go buy two of the mother****ers. :D:rockon:
 
Not sure if this has been mentioned here, but the Top Gear guys tested the Caddy. They were very pleasantly surprised by how good it is.

"Review: Clarkson tests the Cadillac CTS-V at the Top Gear test track. He initially mocks the claim that it handled like a European car (after development had been done at the Nürburgring), before racing it against an Audi S4 driven by the Stig. Despite a similar power output, and the Stig in control of the Audi, the Cadillac wins. Jeremy likes it, but doesn’t recommend it over the Vauxhall Monaro muscle car, and expresses disdain over the constant “bong” sounds the car makes when the door is open, the key is in the ignition, and so on. The CTS-V does a lap around the test track in 1.33:4 in the wet."
 
JHW said:
Here they sell the izuzu dmax truck and holden (GM) colorado clones into the same marketplace against each other. It's sort of amusing to see people debate which is better. Ditto the ford ranger / mazda BT50.

I'm not much for GM products these days but the ones built by isuzu should be ok. I have an holden-badged isuzu SUV and aside from being thirsty (mines not a diesel) it's very maintenance-friendly designed, and does great off road.
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What can you buy a 5 year old Holden SS Ute for now? Hey Mike, got any late model GTO dashboards and steering racks?
 
Dav8or said:
Well, they're not entirely new. They have been building this truck in South America and Asia since 2011. It's only new to us.
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The same was true of the Cruze (built overseas since 2009, brought to the US a couple years later). I've got a 2012 Cruze, and was glad I waited, because through the 2011 year they were still shaking out the bugs. 2012's had relatively few issues, and I've been very happy with mine. I think there are enough issues with bringing on a new assembly line for an established product, and probably new suppliers than are used overseas, that buying the first year of anything is leap of faith.
 
RalphInCA said:
Not sure if this has been mentioned here, but the Top Gear guys tested the Caddy. They were very pleasantly surprised by how good it is.

"Review: Clarkson tests the Cadillac CTS-V at the Top Gear test track. He initially mocks the claim that it handled like a European car (after development had been done at the Nürburgring), before racing it against an Audi S4 driven by the Stig. Despite a similar power output, and the Stig in control of the Audi, the Cadillac wins. Jeremy likes it, but doesn’t recommend it over the Vauxhall Monaro muscle car, and expresses disdain over the constant “bong” sounds the car makes when the door is open, the key is in the ignition, and so on. The CTS-V does a lap around the test track in 1.33:4 in the wet."
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Clarkson will always find nits to pick when it comes to American cars. It's just his way. :D
 
txflyer said:
I'll let y'all know if I get it.

I mainly started the thread to see if a bunch of people said ... Oh Hell No! it's a piece of crap! ... and I've got my answer.

The rest of the talk has been penis measuring and envious psychobabble, so maybe I'll go buy two of the mother****ers. :D:rockon:
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But if you buy a pair, then you have to build a race track on your land and invite people over to race.:D Let me know when the track is open.;)
 
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