Air Force One Replacement

weilke said:
They laugh.

And then they try to emulate it. The german chancellor used to travel in a Challenger 601. Got him and immediate staff wherever he needed to go. Additional staff and press flew commercial or charter. Now they have a pair of A340s to cart her around :rolleyes: .
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You provided evidence to the 'emulate it' part. How's about some evidence to the 'they laugh' part since that is the point your side is trying to make.

I don't think they laugh at all. I think the world is by and large envious of the US...current economics and all. I think the right is so hateful of this president they look for any and every excuse to tear America apart and blame him for it. This includes, obviously, airplane purchases the President has nothing to do with and will never fly.

Our economy isn't that bad. It's just not the roaring 80's that 'conservatives' are mentally stuck in. It's funny how the conservative mind works. They pick a time when they thought they were happy and insist everyone track towards that period.

Never mind we were in the middle of a cold war, the zero day clock was under a minute at all times, and we all had to deal with stupid hairdo's on our women folk.

Right now Apple just made the most money in a single quarter of any company in human history. Stocks are up, and people eat well. Sorry MTV doesn't play music anymore but dem's da breaks.

Honestly, I don't know why anyone would want to label themselves a 'conservative' anyway. Do they know what the words means? The Indians were the ultimate conservatives. Generation after generation they did exactly what their fathers and their fathers father did. They were so conservative they stagnated their own development. For thousands of years they just kept on keeping on. Heck, they never even developed a wheel!

Well, their conservative nature worked great...until they had to deal with other world cultures that WERE NOT conservative. The new cultures had spent their time developing NEW technologies...gunpowder, wheels, oil lamps, and even stupid beads were enough to mow over the conservative culture.

I, for one, am sick and tired of people who blindly align with a 'conservatve' banner because faux told them it's the right thing and faux happens to support their myopic world view by reinforcing the message over and over to the brain dead masses.

Wake up!

Conservative is not a label that's to be worn proudly. There's a reason all the Republican nominees look outright crazy...they are. Ted Cruz, Sara Palin, That 999! guy...Hermin Cain, Mittens Romney, omg...it goes on forever.

Chew on that awhile.
 
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I would refute everything in your post, but it wouldn't take us very far except the Spin Zone.

But know this: There is one over-arching, all-determining, terrifying fact: We have crossed the point of no return with our debt. Even if we balanced the Federal budget TOMORROW, there is no way to stop the inevitable default anymore.

We can't grow ourselves out of it. We can't tax ourselves out of it. We can't even inflate the currency enough to resolve it anymore. It has been compounding exponentially, every minute of every day, and there is no stopping it.

That is the ONLY thing you should be concerned about, liberal or conservative, because all the other "flashpoint issues" (abortion, legality of drugs, welfare, the military, etc.) pale to insignificance in the shadow of that inconvenient fact.

THAT is why the knowledgeable people of the world laugh when they see the flying palace our faux kings use.
 
Captain said:
You provided evidence to the 'emulate it' part. How's about some evidence to the 'they laugh' part since that is the point your side is trying to make.
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I can't claim to speak for 'the world', but in the mostly european countries that I frequently travel to, the US and americans are mostly viewed as well meaning but somewhat clumsy and pompous rubes (and that extends to the political representation).

I think the world is by and large envious of the US...current economics and all. I think the right is so hateful of this president they look for any and every excuse to tear America apart and blame him for it. This includes, obviously, airplane purchases the President has nothing to do with and will never fly.

Our economy isn't that bad. It's just not the roaring 80's that 'conservatives' are mentally stuck in. It's funny how the conservative mind works. They pick a time when they thought they were happy and insist everyone track towards that period.

Never mind we were in the middle of a cold war, the zero day clock was under a minute at all times, and we all had to deal with stupid hairdo's on our women folk.

Right now Apple just made the most money in a single quarter of any company in human history. Stocks are up, and people eat well. Sorry MTV doesn't play music anymore but dem's da breaks.

Honestly, I don't know why anyone would want to label themselves a 'conservative' anyway. Do they know what the words means? The Indians were the ultimate conservatives. Generation after generation they did exactly what their fathers and their fathers father did. They were so conservative they stagnated their own development. For thousands of years they just kept on keeping on. Heck, they never even developed a wheel!

Well, their conservative nature worked great...until they had to deal with other world cultures that WERE NOT conservative. The new cultures had spent their time developing NEW technologies...gunpowder, wheels, oil lamps, and even stupid beads were enough to mow over the conservative culture.

I, for one, am sick and tired of people who blindly align with a 'conservatve' banner because faux told them it's the right thing and faux happens to support their myopic world view by reinforcing the message over and over to the brain dead masses.

Wake up!

Conservative is not a label that's to be worn proudly. There's a reason all the Republican nominees look outright crazy...they are. Ted Cruz, Sara Palin, That 999! guy...Hermin Cain, Mittens Romney, omg...it goes on forever.

Chew on that awhile.
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I am not sure what, except for some nonspecified issues between your ears, has caused you to go off on that rant.

I'll grant you that there are a couple of rather unreflected jabs at the current president in this thread, but you can be of the opinion that building another flying castle in the sky based on an obsolete airframe is a tremendous waste of money without being politically 'conservative'. Would it be more palatable for you if the money saved by not building another royal sky-chariot is 'given to the underpriviledged' ?
 
Jay Honeck said:
But know this: There is one over-arching, all-determining, terrifying fact: We have crossed the point of no return with our debt. Even if we balanced the Federal budget TOMORROW, there is no way to stop the inevitable default anymore.
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You believe this because you've been told this by a few people in the media and think tanks who get paid handsomely to make you worry.

With the combined net worth of just the top few hundred Americans equal to several years of US budget deficits, it puts some perspective on the relative size of the budget deficit and debt, and where the money is.
 
Jeff Oslick said:
You believe this because you've been told this by a few people in the media and think tanks who get paid handsomely to make you worry.

With the combined net worth of just the top few hundred Americans equal to several years of US budget deficits, it puts some perspective on the relative size of the budget deficit and debt, and where the money is.
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Ding ding ding.

I've been suggesting you folks to stop watching faux for years. My grandmother watches religiously and is convinced we're all gonna die...soon.

Seriously, step away from faux. I've done the same thing, I don't watch MSNBC either and I assure you the U.S. is not on the brink of fiscal disaster despite what the GOP tells you via faux. And that's what it is...faux is the mouthpiece for the GOP decision makers. Who are they? The EXACT same folks who informed Mittens Romney he'd not be interested in running for president this year.

Take the six months pledge. Don't watch for six months and see how you feel. I promise you'll feel MUCH better and nothing will be different in the world. You will be able to enjoy life and realize WE are the normal ones. The people who don't sit on the edge of their seats waiting for the world to end.
 
Jay Honeck said:
In my case, anyway, this issue has nothing to do with the current occupant, and everything to do with how foolish the world's worst debtor nation looks to people when our faux King arrives in such opulent splendor.

It's all puffery and ego, backed by...nothing. The US is financially a hollow shell, brittle and ready to shatter. It's just a matter of time, and everyone knows it.

Which is what makes these flying palaces so embarrassing. Like the "generals" who run the banana republics, we just keep adding more gold braid to the uniform, and end up looking weak and silly.
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I think we should bill the press corps for AF1, they are the ones profiting from it. Have Murdoch buy it. If Wall Street is the beneficiary of the government, they should pay the bills.
 
weilke said:
I can't claim to speak for 'the world', but in the mostly european countries that I frequently travel to, the US and americans are mostly viewed as well meaning but somewhat clumsy and pompous rubes (and that extends to the political representation).



I am not sure what, except for some nonspecified issues between your ears, has caused you to go off on that rant.
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There's no 'issues' between my ears and your obviously trying to be insulting. That's rude.

weilke said:
I'll grant you that there are a couple of rather unreflected jabs at the current president in this thread, but you can be of the opinion that building another flying castle in the sky based on an obsolete airframe is a tremendous waste of money without being politically 'conservative'. Would it be more palatable for you if the money saved by not building another royal sky-chariot is 'given to the underpriviledged' ?
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A couple?? It started with the 3rd response and continued with 85%+ of the rest. It was 'a couple jabs' like there's 'a few' dollars owed by the U.S.

The last sentence is offensive on several levels. It's not a sky-chariot. To say it is is to imply the president is, or pretends to be of Greek mythology. Also, to imply it would appeal to me that the saved money goes to underprivileged is insulting on its face. My angle is faux is horrible. Not 'let's give money to poor'. Sorry if I don't fit in some box you've made.
 
Captain said:
Ding ding ding.

I've been suggesting you folks to stop watching faux for years. My grandmother watches religiously and is convinced we're all gonna die...soon.

Seriously, step away from faux. I've done the same thing, I don't watch MSNBC either and I assure you the U.S. is not on the brink of fiscal disaster despite what the GOP tells you via faux. And that's what it is...faux is the mouthpiece for the GOP decision makers. Who are they? The EXACT same folks who informed Mittens Romney he'd not be interested in running for president this year.

Take the six months pledge. Don't watch for six months and see how you feel. I promise you'll feel MUCH better and nothing will be different in the world. You will be able to enjoy life and realize WE are the normal ones. The people who don't sit on the edge of their seats waiting for the world to end.
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OMG. This is what the liberal argument against the looming debt disaster has become? "Just don't think about it, and maybe it will go away?" lol

By the way, I listen to (and sponsor) NPR for my news. I also read the New York Times, half a dozen on-line news outlets, and occasionally listen to Rush Limbaugh.

There's no need for Fox, and it doesn't take a math genius to check the budget, versus GDP growth, versus inflation, versus the debt (and interest rates) to figure out what's coming -- and it is not going to be fun.
 
Jay Honeck said:
OMG. This is what the liberal argument against the looming debt disaster has become? "Just don't think about it, and maybe it will go away?" lol

By the way, I listen to (and sponsor) NPR for my news. I also read the New York Times, half a dozen on-line news outlets, and occasionally listen to Rush Limbaugh.

There's no need for Fox, and it doesn't take a math genius to check the budget, versus GDP growth, versus inflation, versus the debt (and interest rates) to figure out what's coming -- and it is not going to be fun.
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And I thought you ran a hotel. Turns out your an world economist. And your absolutely certain we are past the point of no return, eh? It's hopeless and over, huh?

Forgive me if I pass on your analysis. Not saying I know any better, but I know what I know and I know what I don't and I know you don't know. But, then again, I've been wrong before...
 
Captain said:
And I thought you ran a hotel. Turns out your an world economist. And your absolutely certain we are past the point of no return, eh? It's hopeless and over, huh?

Forgive me if I pass on your analysis. Not saying I know any better, but I know what I know and I know what I don't and I know you don't know. But, then again, I've been wrong before...
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There's nothing complicated about figuring this out. Sure, the numbers are bigger, but it's no different than budgeting for my little hotel.

This guy spells it out better than I can. Watch the accompanying video, where he runs various scenarios, trying to find one that gets us to where the debt even stops growing (let alone gets repaid). It's sobering...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-12/paying-down-debt-now-almost-mathematically-impossible
 
Henning said:
I think we should bill the press corps for AF1, they are the ones profiting from it. Have Murdoch buy it. If Wall Street is the beneficiary of the government, they should pay the bills.
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They are being billed. The price of a business/first class commercial ticket to whatever destination AF1 takes them to. Not because the WH wants to, but because some federal law says that the USAF is not allowed to compete with private business.
Of course, the ticket price they pay doesn't come close to covering the 'cost' of the actual seat. 'Cost' in a military environment is an entirely ficticious number, as AF1 would go to the destination without the journalists, the incremental cost to take one more journalist is next to nothing. If one wanted to allocate the expense to operate the thing to the small number of seats on board, it is a pretty frightening number. There is some ficticious number the AF came up with to bill the campaign for strictly campaign related trips (iirc $225,000/hr). As there is always some 'official business' in addition to the fundraisers, those billed flights are few and far in between.
 
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weilke said:
They are being billed. The price of a business/first class commercial ticket to whatever destination AF1 takes them to. Not because the WH wants to, but because some federal law says that the USAF is not allowed to compete with private business.
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Screw that, foot them the whole bill. The tax payer isn't profiting, why are they paying? The media makes **** loads of money off that ride.
 
Captain said:
There's no 'issues' between my ears and your obviously trying to be insulting. That's rude.
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We were talking about the merits of building a new AF1 and you go off on a rant on Fox, conservatives and god knows what. Yeah, you have issues.

The last sentence is offensive on several levels. It's not a sky-chariot. To say it is is to imply the president is, or pretends to be of Greek mythology.
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As established earlier, it is not the president who comes up with purchase decisions and the protocols followed by WH and the presidential airlift group. Many of those traditions and protocols have no foundation in operational needs and are solely maintained to create a pseudo-royal aura around the the president. A distinct color of the carpet in the 'presidential' side of the plane vs. the back where the commoners travel ? All of it is an attempt to re-create the pomp and circumstance of the old country. Last week I was up in Ottawa and got a private tour of the parliament building. They even have a door into the building reserved for use by the queen or her emissary (the governor general). The power of parliament is tied to the 'Mace' being carried in by the Sargeant at arms. How is the circus around the WH and presidential travel any different from those magical beliefs ?

Also, to imply it would appeal to me that the saved money goes to underprivileged is insulting on its face. My angle is faux is horrible. Not 'let's give money to poor'. Sorry if I don't fit in some box you've made.
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I was just wondering whether there was an angle to this that could appeal to you. Reason obviously doesn't do it, the national debt you dont care about, so I thought that saving the poor could be something that gets you to think. Well, it turns out you dont care about the poor either :( .
 
weilke said:
We were talking about the merits of building a new AF1 and you go off on a rant on Fox, conservatives and god knows what. Yeah, you have issues.

As established earlier, it is not the president who comes up with purchase decisions and the protocols followed by WH and the presidential airlift group. Many of those traditions and protocols have no foundation in operational needs and are solely maintained to create a pseudo-royal aura around the the president. A distinct color of the carpet in the 'presidential' side of the plane vs. the back where the commoners travel ? All of it is an attempt to re-create the pomp and circumstance of the old country. Last week I was up in Ottawa and got a private tour of the parliament building. They even have a door into the building reserved for use by the queen or her emissary (the governor general). The power of parliament is tied to the 'Mace' being carried in by the Sargeant at arms. How is the circus around the WH and presidential travel any different from those magical beliefs ?

I was just wondering whether there was an angle to this that could appeal to you. Reason obviously doesn't do it, the national debt you dont care about, so I thought that saving the poor could be something that gets you to think. Well, it turns out you dont care about the poor either :( .
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I hope you do realize I quoted you by chance. Yours just happened to be towards the end of an avalanche of stupid. Don't feel so special to be singled out.
 
Jay Honeck said:
There's nothing complicated about figuring this out. Sure, the numbers are bigger, but it's no different than budgeting for my little hotel.

This guy spells it out better than I can. Watch the accompanying video, where he runs various scenarios, trying to find one that gets us to where the debt even stops growing (let alone gets repaid). It's sobering...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-12/paying-down-debt-now-almost-mathematically-impossible
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Unless your hotel prints and backs the money that the world uses as a benchmark and has the physical power to affect influence on a global scale I'd say, 'no', it's quite different.
 
Captain said:
I hope you do realize I quoted you by chance. Yours just happened to be towards the end of an avalanche of stupid. Don't feel so special to be singled out.
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None of this happens by chance. Had you intended to respond to others, you could have used the multi-quote feature or just 'reply to thread'. You quoted my post and replied to it in two separate points, so dont run away from your answer now.
 
Captain said:
Unless your hotel prints and backs the money that the world uses as a benchmark and has the physical power to affect influence on a global scale I'd say, 'no', it's quite different.
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The government prints no money, the government issues bonds, and the government mints coins.
 
Jay Honeck said:
There's nothing complicated about figuring this out. Sure, the numbers are bigger, but it's no different than budgeting for my little hotel.

This guy spells it out better than I can. Watch the accompanying video, where he runs various scenarios, trying to find one that gets us to where the debt even stops growing (let alone gets repaid). It's sobering...

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-12-12/paying-down-debt-now-almost-mathematically-impossible
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Btw, it's customary to credit the author. In this case your link is a reposting of Simon Black's work. Link

Simon Black has many followers that seem more or less happy with the advice he has sold them. But make no mistake, Simon Black makes a living selling doomsday news to folks just like yourself. It'd be hard to argue he's an unbiased source.
 
weilke said:
None of this happens by chance. Had you intended to respond to others, you could have used the multi-quote feature or just 'reply to thread'. You quoted my post and replied to it in two separate points, so dont run away from your answer now.
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No ones running away. I picked your quote by chance and that's a fact.
 
Captain said:
No ones running away. I picked your quote by chance and that's a fact.
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Anytime someone has to emphasize something with 'and that's a fact', you know it is anything but.
 
Captain said:
Btw, it's customary to credit the author. In this case your link is a reposting of Simon Black's work. Link

Simon Black has many followers that seem more or less happy with the advice he has sold them. But make no mistake, Simon Black makes a living selling doomsday news to folks just like yourself. It'd be hard to argue he's an unbiased source.
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Did you check his work, step by step, demonstrating the impossibility of the situation? It's basic math, and easy to follow.

Point out where you think his math is wrong. Otherwise, you're just arm waving.

IMHO, the most dangerous thing we can do, as citizens, is to let the bureaucrats make the debt issue needlessly complex, because they do this for only one reason: It keeps their gravy train running.
 
A two wheel bicycle would be just as useful obama, as he never actually does any work, just attends fundaisers, parties, vacations, and runs around making stupid speeches all on our dime, using AF1
 
Florida Cracker said:
A two wheel bicycle would be just as useful obama, as he never actually does any work, just attends fundaisers, parties, vacations, and runs around making stupid speeches all on our dime, using AF1
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Don't most bicycles have two wheels? ;)
 
denverpilot said:
Don't most bicycles have two wheels? ;)
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Old folks in Florida often ride three wheeled bikes for stability, and convenience. The are some four wheeled bikes, but they tend to be kind of heavy
 
Just think, if we could pay down our debt by $100B a year and had no interest it would only take 180 years to do so.
 
EppyGA said:
Just think, if we could pay down our debt by $100B a year and had no interest it would only take 180 years to do so.
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It's very easy to get rid of most of the national debt, and Obama kinda threatened the Fed with it at the very beginning. The Treasury could mint trillion dollar coins and pay off the Federal Reserve with them.
 
denverpilot said:
The guy from Wyoming told me bi means they like both goats AND sheep. LOL. ;)

(Ducking before Ben decks me...)
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I am reporting this post to Mari, the moderator..... Altho she ain't talking to me any more...... so you will prevail....:sad::sad::sad::sad:......:D
 
N801BH said:
I am reporting this post to Mari, the moderator..... Altho she ain't talking to me any more...... so you will prevail....:sad::sad::sad::sad:......:D
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There's more than one moderator. :)

What did you do to poor Mari to make her not love you anymore? I pick on Mari all the time, but she knows if happily buy her a beverage at Perfect Landing.
 
I wonder if my local PD will try to pick up one of the old, surplus, 747s?
 
Matthew said:
I wonder if my local PD will try to pick up one of the old, surplus, 747s?
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That's actually a good question, I wonder what happens to the old airframes?

Could they be sold or used by some freight company?
 
Captain said:
That's actually a good question, I wonder what happens to the old airframes?

Could they be sold or used by some freight company?
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If history is any guide, they will be kept in reserve for 10 years after the new planes come online and then go to places like the museum of the air-force and the 'Barack Obama presidential library and golf-course'.
 
weilke said:
If history is any guide, they will be kept in reserve for 10 years after the new planes come online and then go to places like the museum of the air-force and the 'Barack Obama presidential library and golf-course'.
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:idea:..... It would make a GREAT clubhouse for the Barrack Obama PRIVATE golf course....:rolleyes:
 
weilke said:
If history is any guide, they will be kept in reserve for 10 years after the new planes come online and then go to places like the museum of the air-force and the 'Barack Obama presidential library and golf-course'.
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You always gotta keep those old airplanes around to remind you to be humble about the poor neighborhood that you came from. LOL
 
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