You are NOT bothering ATC. Students read this.

SixPapaCharlie said:
They will hand you off to approach

It does not terminate when handed off, approach just takes over. You will still be squawking but now talking to approach.

If you land at a non towered fields, they will ask you to tell them when you have the field in sight. Once you tell them you have the field, they will let you know if there are any...... KNOWN... aircraft between you and the field and have you squawk 1200 and approve frequency change.

There is not a lot for you to initiate on FF they tend to handle it all and tell you what to do. Once in a blue moon, they may forget about you and you may pipe up and ask if you need to change freq. or something but that isn't likely.

At any point during your flight, you can say "I wish to cancel FF" if you like but you are never required to do so.
Click to expand...

See the red outlined above...
 
if I am NOT bothering ATC, I am NOT trying hard enough! :rofl:

JK, but for anyone who is just 'FF-shy', FUHGEDABOUDIT! GET FF, it is so easy. Listen to some tapes, talk to your instructor, or I think Mr. Gardner supposedly has a highly recommended book to read, but whatever you do, get over it, it's not difficult and can be a great service.

On the flip side, maybe some of us feel like it's a burden to get FF because I know I have gone on several trips using FF and never heard a peep out of them except handoffs and bu-byes. It's hard to know whether there 'could' have been traffic alerts, but maybe they were just too busy. However, the act of getting FF and communicating is just a non-issue.

Interesting that this post just came out, because yesterday I went to my local Class D and asked the airport mgr if I could get a tour of the tower. He said not really, but called them up just to make me happy. Turns out they said 'hellz yeah, send him up!' lol. I hung out with those guys for like an hour and a half, it was really cool to see what was going on on their side. With the local weather, basically no one was flying, but I did get to witness one handoff from Charlotte and also a recording of their AWOS lol. Freakin good stuff man, figured if I can't fly (wx) might as well hang out at the airport!
 
Great write up. Thanks for taking the time to do so.
 
N801BH said:
Great write up Bryan...:thumbsup:..


This question is for MarkZ, Steven and any other controllers here....

Jackson does not have radar in the cab, but the BI-6 signal is sent back to ZSLC 200 miles away..

If I pick a slow day and slow time, can I program my GPS with various waypoints to spell out BEN.. Or maybe even N801BH.. Get FF with a good code number.. Seems all the ones with 1000 /0000 will not get picked up on flightaware...

So, Off I go to a place out of the traffic area and clear of any incoming and outgoing flights and I stay low, but high enough to still get transponder hits and proceed to draw a note in the sky like Boeing did with the 787....

1-.. Will I pizz off the controllers for that request?

2- Do I really need a code above 2000 ?

3- Has anyone else done this besides Boeing ?

Thanks in advance...

Ben..
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1. No, but if you tell the controller exactly what you plan to do, you'll definitely break the ice. For conversation between you and the controller, and the controller with his/her colleagues working traffic!

2. You would get a non discrete code.

3. Not that I know of.
 
MarkZ said:
1. No, but if you tell the controller exactly what you plan to do, you'll definitely break the ice. For conversation between you and the controller, and the controller with his/her colleagues working traffic!

2. You would get a non discrete code.

3. Not that I know of.
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Thanks....

If this incoming winter storm holds off till tomorrow afternoon, I will fire up the beast and try it in the morning....
 
ChrisK said:
Will you use waypoints or just an ipad and advisories?
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Tomorrow I will use my Kind KMD 150 GPS and try to fly the track traces.. Probably have to cycle off the transponder to standby.... between letters...

First try will be POA..
 
N659HB said:
Some of us have no transponders.

Good post, by the way.
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I just mailed my annual Transponder Deviation Form in to our local Class C tower yesterday. I will likely be flying in and around the Class C airspace and talking to them. Even though I do not have a Transponder.

Brian
 
brcase said:
I just mailed my annual Transponder Deviation Form in to our local Class C tower yesterday. I will likely be flying in and around the Class C airspace and talking to them. Even though I do not have a Transponder.

Brian
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Can you elaborate?
 
N801BH said:
Tomorrow I will use my Kind KMD 150 GPS and try to fly the track traces.. Probably have to cycle off the transponder to standby.... between letters...

First try will be POA..
Click to expand...

Or you could do it in cursive.

Either way, put runkeeper on your phone or something so if you are not picked up on flight aware, you can upload the screen cap from your own tracker.
 
A guy at my church retired from Kennedy Tower in September and got my dad and I a tour of the tower and NY TRACON. It was a really cool experience and the guys and gals were so friendly.

jfk_zps05d1c28d.jpg



tower_zps2dad7bcd.jpg
 
N801BH said:
Tomorrow I will use my Kind KMD 150 GPS and try to fly the track traces.. Probably have to cycle off the transponder to standby.... between letters...

First try will be POA..
Click to expand...


Wimp.

Do it in cursive and you won't have to shut anything off.

;)
 
denverpilot said:
Heh. Good post, but their stuff is way way way behind the average data center. For various good and bad reasons, combined.
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I meant specific to volume.
I am pretty sure all the "computers" there were Commodore 64's but they had so damn many of them.
 
I had "too damn many" boxes in my data center.... 15 years ago, before virtualization. :)
 
I've actually had ATC put me on flight following without even really asking for it. About a month ago I flew up to Brackett Field (KPOC) which is under the shelf of the KONT Class C. When I left I wanted to head east which would take me into the surface area. Because of this I called up the ONT tower and told them I'd like to tranasition to the east. They simply asked me to stay north of a freeway for traffic, then passed me off to SoCal. I thought I would just be talking to them until I cleared the Class C, but the asked what my destination and route of flight would be. My final destination was KCRQ, but I planned on doing some sightseeing in the desert which is WAY to the northeast of a direct course. I told them my intentions and rough route and they were happy to help. When I got to my sightseeing spot I let them know, then descended below radar and radio contact and called them back up when I was done. It was all very simple and everyone was super friendly and helpful. All without even asking!

As for the questions about approach, towers, etc. they will hand you off when necessary. If you're crossing some C or D airspace they handle it for you, and around here they often give you B clearances as well. When you get close to your destination they will tell you "contact tower on xxx.xx" if it's a towered field or "frequency change approved" if non towered. If it's a towered field they may tell you to remain on your transponder code, otherwise they will tell you to squawk VFR. Either way it's all very simple and they tell you exactly what to do. I almost never fly without FF around here unless I'm staying in the pattern.
 
Excellent, Bryan. Thanks. I'm going to get a transponder in my car and request FF on commutes to the office, just to help out the FAA. Or AAA. AARP? Anyway, thanks for the great write-up.
 
I feel compelled to say awesome post! Absolutely spot on.

It took me less than one hour of monitoring position training for this job before I asked myself why I didn't always ask for FF as a pilot. I saw 4 1200 codes head on / same altitude in that span practicing holding over a VOR.

As an approach guy, 98% of my required traffic calls are useless to the average GA pilot operating in the system. Its annoying I know. Skyhawk I'm also talking to will pass 1,000 feet above and 2.99 miles laterally. The seat belt analogy was perfect. Annoying until you need it.

I know as a controller I'm largely an extra set of eyes to the GA guy not worth the price of initial call up 99% of the time, but having heard things like "I would have never seen them" and worse "I'd have hit that guy" after traffic calls, the pilot side of me is more than willing to ask for FF.

Another advantage is if/when you want FF/IFR and are a constant user of the system is you and I have rapport. We both know what to expect. I work one C172 weekly who only wants FF for maneuvers essentially in the middle of nowhere. I know the call sign, I know his wife will work the radios with all the skill of a student pilot (and that's totally fine). I've given about one traffic call every two years to them, but they still call up weekly and I appreciate it. I also know he can fly the wheel pants off of that Skyhawk.

After watching him fly for 7 years he came in for the first time IFR to (right under the big airport's final) home base. Didn't take much convincing with other sectors to run him in first and delay the airliners just a bit. Every one of us knew he knew and was comfortable in the system.
 
Approach_controller said:
I feel compelled to say awesome post! Absolutely spot on.

It took me less than one hour of monitoring position training for this job before I asked myself why I didn't always ask for FF as a pilot. I saw 4 1200 codes head on / same altitude in that span practicing holding over a VOR.

As an approach guy, 98% of my required traffic calls are useless to the average GA pilot operating in the system. Its annoying I know. Skyhawk I'm also talking to will pass 1,000 feet above and 2.99 miles laterally. The seat belt analogy was perfect. Annoying until you need it.

I know as a controller I'm largely an extra set of eyes to the GA guy not worth the price of initial call up 99% of the time, but having heard things like "I would have never seen them" and worse "I'd have hit that guy" after traffic calls, the pilot side of me is more than willing to ask for FF.

Another advantage is if/when you want FF/IFR and are a constant user of the system is you and I have rapport. We both know what to expect. I work one C172 weekly who only wants FF for maneuvers essentially in the middle of nowhere. I know the call sign, I know his wife will work the radios with all the skill of a student pilot (and that's totally fine). I've given about one traffic call every two years to them, but they still call up weekly and I appreciate it. I also know he can fly the wheel pants off of that Skyhawk.

After watching him fly for 7 years he came in for the first time IFR to (right under the big airport's final) home base. Didn't take much convincing with other sectors to run him in first and delay the airliners just a bit. Every one of us knew he knew and was comfortable in the system.
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Now.... That is kool....:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
On this topic, anyone know where to go/who to call to get a tour of SoCal Approach? I can get a tour of my local tower just about any time I want, but have no idea how to get ahold of SoCal (besides on frequency of course)
 
OP's post is one of the most informative write-ups I've seen on an aviation (or any) forum.
 
I'm at Brackett Field in La Verne, my mechanic is at Riverside, 18nm away. . . .I 'could' fly it VFR not talking to anyone - and do it legally at 2500' - but if you look at the map there is Class C airspace [Ontario] overlying that route.

Even though it is such a short route, SoCal Tracon has told me repeatedly in direct responses and in briefs they give in tours and at various facility meetings - they want me with a code. They want to know I'm coming [tell Brackett ground I want FF] and they want to be able to vector me if necessary. I may only be on their 'radar' for 10 min but given the airliner departures right across my path heading to PHX and DFW, they want me squawkin' and talkin'.

Even on a short flight, unless you are inside 20nm from one Class G field to another - ATC wants to know you are there, where you are going, at what alt and what kind of AC.
 
Approach_controller said:
I know as a controller I'm largely an extra set of eyes to the GA guy not worth the price of initial call up 99% of the time, but having heard things like "I would have never seen them" and worse "I'd have hit that guy" after traffic calls, the pilot side of me is more than willing to ask for FF.
Click to expand...

I was convinced real early on training in fairly crowded San Francisco airspace, but the thing that REALLY convinced me was the following traffic call, climbing out of South Lake Tahoe in a 172:

Skyhawk 123AB Oakland Center traffic 6 o'clock 8500 Skylane.

So, there was a much faster airplane on my six, at almost the same altitude, headed right for me. It's hard enough to spot them when they are in front of you. The call was followed right away by another to the Skylane about a "slow climber" ahead.
 
MarkZ said:
Wimp.

Do it in cursive and you won't have to shut anything off.

;)
Click to expand...

Well.... I flew the route this morning.....

Tower was more then happy to help me and called ZSLC for coordination

Was given a squawk code of 4036.... It didn't get logged on the flight-a-ware site:mad2::mad2::mad2:...:confused:...:confused:


Good news is the weather was not ugly..

The bad news is my King KMD150 does NOT leave breadcrumbs so I had to guess at the beginning and end of the letters..

The other bad news is I flew it over the national elk refuge and there are about 10,000 of them on there now.. So Picked out a small herd to draw the P, and I bet it came out perfect and by the time I went to draw the O, the herd was moving...:mad2:...

Drawing the A was not easy, but I will never know...

The good news is I should have brought my Garmin 196 off the dash of my truck as it leaves a track.. So next time I will get the words drawn good

Anyone have an idea on why my code didn't get picked up by flight a ware ?:dunno:
 
Excellent write-up. Too many pilots tend to overlook the benefits of working with ATC. There is a good, although a bit outdated, book titled Avoiding Common Pilot Errors or something to that effect. it goes into great detail on how the system works, including excruciating detail on flight strips, etc. One of the tools mentioned in the book is an automated vectoring program that can be used by the controller to get an airplane in trouble to the nearest suitable airport. That's worth the price of admission all on its own!

When I was a student pilot, I was delayed at an intermediate airport on my long x-c and was caught by dark 35 miles from my home airport. I had zero experience flying at night. Fortunately I was using flight following, declared an emergency, and received an abundance of help getting down safely at an unfamiliar airport. The voice in my headset made a big difference, both keeping me calm and talking me down all the way to short final.

Using ATC in just another tool in the toolkit, though you must keep in mind that traffic advisories are not mandatory for VFR pilots, so don't let your guard down.
 
From the FlightAware website:

In the US and Europe, this is not officially supported although some VFR aircraft with flight following are available on the position maps but it is largely unreliable and arrival/departure/flight plan data is often not available. VFR flight plans are irrelevant and only used by FSS for search and rescue. We suggest ensuring that aircraft are on an IFR flight plan from wheels up to wheels down for proper tracking.
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MAKG1 said:
From the FlightAware website:
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Now I am really confused...

All departures this morning were given 4000 series squawk codes... As I landed the Cirrus in the next hangar was taxiing out to fly to Cheyenne VFR...
https://flightaware.com/live/airport/KJAC


It is tracking him....

He might have filed a VFR flight plan though.. I didn't chat with him before he left..
 
Yes, great writeup.

Center and TRACON tours are great, but the frosting on the cake is to "plug in" (on a headset) with a controller for a while. This will give you a real education on how the system works and what the controller is doing while you don't hear him/her on the radio. Pauses in the action are a great time to ask questions, too, and the controller(s) will probably have some questions and some suggestions for you as well.

Following a TRACON tour a number of years ago, the guide offered anyone the opportunity to come back and plug in with him. I took him up on it and ended up being there for most of a shift. The supervisor was very supportive and "we" ended up working all of the TRACON sectors, both high and low.

I have been on a couple of Center tours that included roughly half-hour segments where we were assigned to a sector and plugged in with the controller(s). (Sometimes there are two: One talking and one doing "data.") Again, very worthwhile experiences.

So, try not to stop with just the tours.
 
Here is my real world practical experience on getting a track on FA

1. If a military tracon opens your FF request
2. IFR
3. VFR crossing a tracon boundary
4. Arriving or departing a Class B airport
 
comanchepilot said:
Here is my real world practical experience on getting a track on FA

1. If a military tracon opens your FF request
2. IFR
3. VFR crossing a tracon boundary
4. Arriving or departing a Class B airport
Click to expand...

That is actually a pretty good list... I'd say that matches what I've seen...
 
I agree; excellent post.

But can someone clarify this one statement:

"With FF, they have tail number, Alt, airspeed, origin, destination, aircraft type, and time to hand off. If you provide your intended heading, that will appear to and they can anticipate where you will be at a given point in time. If we file a flight plan, there is a ton more info for them"

Are you referring to VFR flight plans? My understanding is they don't see VFR flight plans. And if they do, what additional info on a flight plan is useful to a controller?
 
I forget the specifics but I believe they can access All that stuff you fill out.
Waypoints, fuel, souls, equipment, etc.a controller may be able to validate that or invalidate :dunno:
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
I forget the specifics but I believe they can access All that stuff you fill out.
Waypoints, fuel, souls, equipment, etc.a controller may be able to validate that or invalidate :dunno:
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Not unless you file IFR and then put VFR altitude (VFR/55). Souls on board, color aircraft, fuel all that stuff doesn't show up IFR or VFR. Of course the always popular IFR alternate airport doesn't show up as well.
 
Very cool write up. I use FF all the time and enjoy it. It's nice knowing there's another pair of eyes looking out for you. I toured the ATC facility here at my home field (Class C) not too long ago. Those guys are BORED silly when there's no traffic. Running loops through the pattern all day long is much preferred to staring at an empty field. Even when I go out to practice maneuvers, I keep FF. I'll echo comments above: looking at the radar controller's perspective, it's much preferred to know what a target plans to do. The controllers seem agree on this point (even if you're flying in circles all day).

I also look at it this way: If I have an uncommon request, the controller gets to keep his skills current, too. Also, the more pilots who use FF, the more we justify the money allocated to ATC.
 
Velocity173 said:
Not unless you file IFR and then put VFR altitude (VFR/55). Souls on board, color aircraft, fuel all that stuff doesn't show up IFR or VFR. Of course the always popular IFR alternate airport doesn't show up as well.
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Velocity173, I have seen this advice ("VFR/55") previously but also seen comments to the effect that such a strip can cause ATC confusion because it is so unusual. Also, I think you cannot file IFR (so maybe not this quasi-IFR flight plan?) if you are not instrument rated. Can you amplify your comments a little? Do you see such strips frequently?
 
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