Still a little shaky. . . don't know if this is ever gonna go away.

[CowboyPilot]

Against my better judgement, I took the Skyhawk up tonight--at night--into the pattern for three up and three down for my 90-day currency/legal.

Home field. Know every bump in the road, every tree, every obstacle.

But coming in on short final with the engine pulled back to idle and seeing the black hole. . . got the sweats and the shakes again.

I may finally just say to hell with trying to get over this.

-JD

 

[tonycondon]

i dont think there is anyway to do it.

when my grandpa was a teenager he was riding in a car with a friend, no seatbelt, window down, sleeping. woke up as they were skidding around a curve. apparently the friend had taken a little snooze too. scared the living daylights out of him. How did I learn this? took a corner a tad fast with him in the passenger seat, 50 odd years later.

 

[Henning]

Against my better judgement, I took the Skyhawk up tonight--at night--into the pattern for three up and three down for my 90-day currency/legal.

Home field. Know every bump in the road, every tree, every obstacle.

But coming in on short final with the engine pulled back to idle and seeing the black hole. . . got the sweats and the shakes again.

I may finally just say to hell with trying to get over this.

-JD

Is it an optical issue or a psychological issue. Wondering because of the "black hole" statement. Hey, you fly for fun, no one says you have to fly at night. Perhaps you're being told to not to for reasons you don't know yet. I'm a firm believer in "that gut feeling". When I push on despite it, something always seems to bite my a$$. I've learned that when my gut says "don't", I just say heck with it and don't.

 

[CowboyPilot]

Is it an optical issue or a psychological issue. Wondering because of the "black hole" statement. Hey, you fly for fun, no one says you have to fly at night. Perhaps you're being told to not to for reasons you don't know yet. I'm a firm believer in "that gut feeling". When I push on despite it, something always seems to bite my a$$. I've learned that when my gut says "don't", I just say heck with it and don't.

It's the latter. I've still got night eyes like a cat. But the last thing I remember was seeing a black hole of nothing where the trees and terrain was when I was stalling it in.

Not a technique problem--the landings were textbook perfect.

It's a memory thing.

-JD

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

It's the latter. I've still got night eyes like a cat. But the last thing I remember was seeing a black hole of nothing where the trees and terrain was when I was stalling it in.

Not a technique problem--the landings were textbook perfect.

It's a memory thing.

-JD

What's so sweaty & shakey in the memory?

 

[Henning]

It's the latter. I've still got night eyes like a cat. But the last thing I remember was seeing a black hole of nothing where the trees and terrain was when I was stalling it in.

Not a technique problem--the landings were textbook perfect.

It's a memory thing.

-JD

F-it, give it up. You've got nothing to prove to yourself or anyone else. We all have our demons to live with, sometimes it's better to honor the truce than to battle on especially a needless battle. Pick the fights worth winning.

 

[grattonja]

If anyone should get a let for night flying, it's you, JD. You survived an engine out crash at night. That's probably all the "night flying stripes" one would ever need to earn.

Jim G

 

[jesse]

I have never liked that feeling for the first one to two hundred feet when I'm taking off out of a "dark hole" airport. There is that exposure with a 3,000 ft runway where I am *so* screwed in a 172 if something goes wrong. At a pretty low altitude I start my crosswind turn and do a circling climb over the airport to my cruise altitude (can't do this sometimes because of bravo). For some reason once I get some altitude underneath me I feel like I'd have a chance if something went wrong. Of course we both know this is not always the case.

With a 3,000 ft field there is no possible way for me to return to the runway with a straight out departure with no wind in a 172. The amount of distance over the ground that I cover in a climb is 1.38 times the distance that I am capable of gliding back. My only chance is if the runway is long enough to support me going back when I finally have a safe altitude for turn back. This takes about 5,000 ft. Straight up the climb performance in a 172 sucks as does the glide.

For this reason I really do prefer to fly the Diamonds at night. The numbers are SO much more in my favor. I can *GLIDE* 1.63 TIMES my climb distance. Completely opposite of the 172. My chance of survival in a departure failure goes up several times. That said I still usually start my crosswind turn pretty low and climb out circling the airport until I reach cruise.

Sometimes I question the risk of night flying. If I went through what you did--I doubt I'd go up at night again.

 

[mikea]

JD, get with your local CFI and get some hours of dual towards your BFR or Wings. I do it every Spring.

I get shaky every Spring, too, after the winter layoff.

Get some night dual, now!

 

[wby0nder]

It's the latter. I've still got night eyes like a cat. But the last thing I remember was seeing a black hole of nothing where the trees and terrain was when I was stalling it in.

Not a technique problem--the landings were textbook perfect.

It's a memory thing.



Yes and perhaps not strictly a phsycological conscious memory thing.

Somatic memory is very powerful as I learned after surviving a Bell 47 helo crash as a kid. The subconscious parts of the mind and the autonomic parts of the body become strongly conditioned by a severe traumatic event. You put them back in a similar situation and they are going to react dispite whatever mental or logical control one attempts to impose. Shakes and sweats are classic symptoms of this. Classic and completely manageable with time and with the right approach.

I say, don't give up. But, don't keep banging your head against the same wall either. It's not the right approach and mainly helps to terrorize and discourage needlessly. I'm not a psychologist. I can't say what will work for you. If you are ready to give it up it's clear that what you are doing now isn't working. As a survivor who managed to become a pilot dispite years of shakes and sweats I CAN say don't give up. It's a matter of understanding the true nature of the problem and getting a hand with it.

Matt Michael

 

[N7702Y]

I'm pretty sure, JD, that you aren't a guy who gives anything up easily. That trait kept you alive when others likely wouldn't have made it.

But you don't have anything to prove here, to yourself or anyone else. There are some real risks associated with flying at night. I've never been through what you have been, but I don't like single engine flying at night either. If it's uncomfortable, h*** with it, don't do it!

Jay

 

[gkainz]

I'm not one for a lot of what I consider to be "hocus pocus" stuff (mostly because nothing I've ever tried outside of traditional medicine has EVER worked for me - and I don't go to the doc unless I'm too far out of it to take the phone away from my wife when she's calling the docs), but perhaps some form of hypnotherapy or similar could get you past the mental block ...

 

[CowboyPilot]

What's so sweaty & shakey in the memory?

Had an engine-out at night over some bad terrain. Kept me in the hospital for a few months. Last thing I remember before stalling in the trees was seeing the treetops, then shutting off the master switch, and then just a black hole, then impact.

Been trying to get back on that horse and ride, little bit by little bit. But it hadn't been going so well.

-JD

 

[mikea]

Hey, my heart races on EVERY night landing on the "non-standard lighting" runway at home, with the one-light plane eating power lines under the downwind leg. I always tell myself I only have to land once.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

What's the difference in stall speeds of the two aircraft?
Does that play into your risk analysis?

I have never liked that feeling for the first one to two hundred feet when I'm taking off out of a "dark hole" airport. There is that exposure with a 3,000 ft runway where I am *so* screwed in a 172 if something goes wrong. At a pretty low altitude I start my crosswind turn and do a circling climb over the airport to my cruise altitude (can't do this sometimes because of bravo). For some reason once I get some altitude underneath me I feel like I'd have a chance if something went wrong. Of course we both know this is not always the case.

With a 3,000 ft field there is no possible way for me to return to the runway with a straight out departure with no wind in a 172. The amount of distance over the ground that I cover in a climb is 1.38 times the distance that I am capable of gliding back. My only chance is if the runway is long enough to support me going back when I finally have a safe altitude for turn back. This takes about 5,000 ft. Straight up the climb performance in a 172 sucks as does the glide.

For this reason I really do prefer to fly the Diamonds at night. The numbers are SO much more in my favor. I can *GLIDE* 1.63 TIMES my climb distance. Completely opposite of the 172. My chance of survival in a departure failure goes up several times. That said I still usually start my crosswind turn pretty low and climb out circling the airport until I reach cruise.

Sometimes I question the risk of night flying. If I went through what you did--I doubt I'd go up at night again.

 

[jesse]

What's the difference in stall speeds of the two aircraft?
Does that play into your risk analysis?

Stall speeds are pretty much the exact same. The Diamond is more controllable at the low speeds too.

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Had an engine-out at night over some bad terrain. Kept me in the hospital for a few months. Last thing I remember before stalling in the trees was seeing the treetops, then shutting off the master switch, and then just a black hole, then impact.

Been trying to get back on that horse and ride, little bit by little bit. But it hadn't been going so well.

-JD

Oh, THAT...

One could take the tack of Robin Williams' character in "The World According To Garf" when he proclaimed his house "disaster proof" AFTER an airplane crashed into it and everybody survived because the odds of it happening twice to the same person's house were improbably high. Still, it would be really freaky if it then did actually happened again!


I don't see a pilot like you giving it up though, unless other factors eventually come into play.

 

[Henning]

Had an engine-out at night over some bad terrain. Kept me in the hospital for a few months. Last thing I remember before stalling in the trees was seeing the treetops, then shutting off the master switch, and then just a black hole, then impact.

Been trying to get back on that horse and ride, little bit by little bit. But it hadn't been going so well.

-JD

Take the hint, or get a twin. I don't fly SE Night lightly or comfortably either. It's already bit you once.

 

[CowboyPilot]

I don't see a pilot like you giving it up though, unless other factors eventually come into play.

Won't give up flying. Just not sure if I'll ever be able to fly again after the sun has gone down. I do a lot of medical flights with kids and it sure as hell would be helpful if I could utilize the first and last hour of the day instead of being a ***** about it. But it's like the harder I fight it, the worse it fights back.

-JD

 

[Dave Krall CFII]

Take the hint, or get a twin. I don't fly SE Night lightly or comfortably either. It's already bit you once.

I don't take it too lightly either.
Almost makes me want to fire up the NVG and take it on standby for my next night flight but, I know I probably won't.

 

[Pjsmith]

In my short flying career I've had a few 'never agains', so I sorta understand what you're saying, though not completely since mistakes are easy to swear off of, whereas bona fide accidents are not. That said, I do understand the frustration you find when your limits seem like they're moving inward.

I don't have anything to add to all of the advice above except that you seem like a sharp guy who knows himself, and so I'd say keep chipping away at this issue so long as that seems to be the right thing to do in your own mind.

 

[CowboyPilot]

F-it, give it up. You've got nothing to prove to yourself or anyone else. We all have our demons to live with, sometimes it's better to honor the truce than to battle on especially a needless battle. Pick the fights worth winning.

Couple of years ago, I had a hospital call me and ask if I could take a little girl up to Kansas City. They'd found an organ donor for her and wanted to get her up there ASAP. Cook's Children's Hosp in Fort Worth had already done the cross-matching and all of the prep work. It was down to just finding the donor organ and getting it in.

Time was crucial. But it meant taking off and flying the entire route at night.

I called a guy on the old red board--a guy I'd feuded with for quite a while, told him my predicament and asked for help. He's an FAA type. He started with a tower guy in the DFW area and set me up a "lifeline" on discreet frequencies so that I'd never be out of touch with a "friendly voice" the entire flight.

A guy at Alliance (KFWA) drew me up a flight plan that basically had me following I-35 all the way into Kansas City. Once I contacted KC approach, they knew what was up and my "new friend" gave me every checkpoint and visual in town and vectored me over areas where I could look down and see flat, safe places to land.

I had a sick kid with a chance at a new life in the backseat of my Cardinal, along with her escort RN and I was flying at "rental power" at 11,500 and telling that turbo "go baby, go!" just to get the hell up there and on the ground.

Next challenge was where to land? KC International, up in southern Nebraska or KC downtown, surrounded by water--as in, black holes?

The hospital was just on the other side of the river at 39th and State Line. I chose downtown and the tower vectored me beautifully, called out my altitude and position. . . made me feel like a real wuss.

I was almost completely soaked in sweat, had ground down a crown on a lower molar and was shaky-kneed when I taxied to the ambulance at the FBO and got out to help my precious cargo deboard. I spent the night at a hotel and flew back next morning.

I know that any night flying I do cannot always be over highways and roads, but then again. . . why not?

Dunno. I just get into the moods now and then where I want to get that black pony out and try riding her again.

Good news is that the little girl had a successful operation, has been back in the DFW area for almost two years, and I gave her her first Young Eagle flight, and she comes out to the airpark with her folks at least once a month. Everyone lines up to take her up for a ride. Her dad is now an official Student Pilot as of about a month or so ago.

Any ideas for whipping this thing, I'm open.

Thanks.

-JD

 

[EdFred]

Any ideas for whipping this thing, I'm open.

Seriously, two things come to mind.

#1 Complete stubbornness. Tell the night who is boss! Maybe take off 1/2 hour before sundown and just fly patterns for 3 hours. Do it with a CFI if need be.

#2 Therapy/counselling. Maybe talking with a licensed professional with this could help. I've seen a couple programs where they took people who were hysterically afraid of spiders, and by the end of their program they were fine with multiple tarantulas crawling all over their body.

I am neither licensed, nor a professional when it comes to this sort of thing, but the only way I've ever been able to get back to doing things was to just do it.

 

[Henning]

Couple of years ago, I had a hospital call me and ask if I could take a little girl up to Kansas City. They'd found an organ donor for her and wanted to get her up there ASAP. Cook's Children's Hosp in Fort Worth had already done the cross-matching and all of the prep work. It was down to just finding the donor organ and getting it in.

Time was crucial. But it meant taking off and flying the entire route at night.

Any ideas for whipping this thing, I'm open.

Thanks.

-JD

One word, Twin. Seriously and I recommend a Travel Air. You get that big ole T-34 tail that trims to fly on a single. As economical as a twin gets, Beech quality, and I can personnally attest from several experiences with my a$$ in craft, she will fly on one. You WILL make a runway. I flew mine many hours over a hostile and black desert and over mountains in the pitch of night where the nearest light was on a dark horizon and clearly remember thinking "I must have been nuts doing this in a single."

As you are painfully aware night SE contains real hazards. In Day VFR I have no concerns flying SE, I know I will be ok regardless. I also know that night or IMC drastically reduces that possibility to the point that it is most likely that I will NOT be ok. I am nothing if not a realist, I don't believe in "feel good" thought and rationalizations. Flying a twin changes those odds though. In a twin, I am confident I will make a runway regardless the conditions. Again I recommend the BE-95. It is docile for a twin with no flying "gotchas", economical to operate and does have real SE ability. Mine held 1200' 10 kts over blue line one caged the other running 25 square, full fuel, 3 souls onboard, along with an anchor and 50' 5/16 chain in the back. She's a quality bird.

I doubt you'll get over the SE Night problem since it's already bitten you once bad, and as you have said before, we are much alike. You're brain isn't going to let you rationalize this away. You understand all to well how dangerous rationalization is. Your problem is not fear JD, Your problem is understanding and your mind won't let you lie to yourself.

 

[Lance F]

The fact that you flew those patterns last night tells me that you want to get over this. So I don't think you'll be satisfied without taking this further. Some good ideas have been posted. Flying a twin would be nice but maybe it's not a choice for you as it's not for me.
I think your crash was a maintenance issue over which you didn't have control. Flying a SE plane that YOU KNOW is properly maintained may help. After my engine out I had the engine overhauled by a well respected shop and stick to a "fix squawks as soon as you know of them, not at the next annual" policy. This helped, but did not eliminate, my concerns of flying night, low IMC and over mountainous terrain.
Take baby steps like you did last night. Fly a plane you know and trust. Fly with another pilot that you really click with (I don't see why it would have to be a CFI.)
If I were a betting man, my money would say you beat this.

 

[CedricW21]

(snip)
Your problem is understanding and your mind won't let you lie to yourself.

I would disagree with this. JD is a clear example of someone that "felt the fear and did it anyway." He's shown that this is something that he values - but his biology is telling him that he's gonna die if he does it.

One of the factors that led to discovering how the brain deals with traumatic events (that may or may not lead to traumatization) was researchers talking to D-Day vets. They found that the vets fell into two main groups when it came to memory. There was one group that could remember exact details - as if it were yesterday - 40 and 50 years later. The number of shots they fired, the number of hedgerows they went through, the shape of a blast crater they jumped in. The other group remembered that it was horrible, they felt awful remembering it, but couldn't pull out more details about it than about any other significant day in their lives. Guess which group had been struggling with coping?

The brain scans of those vets showed that different areas were involved when they remembered that day. The ones that were traumatized, and had difficulty dealing with it, were using the primitive, reactive part of the brain. This is where fight-or-flight triggers are stored. Faster response time for when we need instant responses. The guys that had been able to generally move beyond the traumatic experience of the day used the rational part of the brain to remember. They were remembering from their thoughts about it, not their survival responses.

Since then, researchers have found a number of ways to help folks move these sort of experiences from the reactive part of the brain to the thinking part of the brain. Particularly of importance to me is providing amazing effectiveness at reducing the impact of trauma experienced by Vietnam vets (like my father), even when the first attempt to address it is decades later than the triggering event(s). For JD's SE-night decision, it may not make any difference in the long run, but I would encourage anyone facing something like this to talk to someone that deals specifically with trauma. Your generic "my husband/wife doesn't pay attention to me anymore" therapist may not have the background or experience to deal with this effectively, but nobody deserves to be haunted by things like this.

Best wishes to all,
--Cedric

 

[AdamZ]

JD, Just curious would you get the same feeling flying on a night when the moon is full and bright?

 

[flyingcheesehead]

JD, Just curious would you get the same feeling flying on a night when the moon is full and bright?

Good idea Adam.

JD, I like Ed's suggestion of starting to fly around the pattern before sunset. Doing so on an evening where there'll be some moonlight after the sun goes down would probably help too. I'd also suggest that you should stop after the first "sweaty/shaky" approach so as not to reinforce the negative feelings. Then, go up the next day and do it again, and keep doing so until you have it licked. Maybe combine it with some of the other suggestions such as another pilot.

Have you tried it with someone else actually doing the flying? Do you have the same reaction?

If all else fails, you could buy yourself a summer home in Alaska.

 

[Henning]

I would disagree with this. JD is a clear example of someone that "felt the fear and did it anyway." He's shown that this is something that he values - but his biology is telling him that he's gonna die if he does it.

<snip interesting info> Correct he did it anyway because he felt it had to be done, there was a girls life on the line. He didn't like it, though the greater good of the trip kept it from getting overwhelming. That shows strength of character. When he went back to it in a non urgent situation, it came back full force.

While the D-Day information was good, it is largely an apples and oranges situation. There you are talking about a past situation that has no possibility of recurring. JD's situation here is different, it most definitely can recur. For those who think "lightning never strikes twice" let me remind you that theres a guy been hit like 11 or 12 times. All those arguements are rationalizations, and JDs experiences in the military and law enforcement keep him from rationalizing because rationalizing gets you killed, and JD is a survivor. When JD has knowledge, he acts on it.

Personnally, I don't think JD's fears are irrational, I don't think he needs therapy for this, I think he needs a twin. Fix the problem right by taking out the risk factors rather than the fear.

 

[wby0nder]

<snip interesting info> Personnally, I don't think JD's fears are irrational, I don't think he needs therapy for this, I think he needs a twin. Fix the problem right by taking out the risk factors rather than the fear.

You are right. The fear of SE failure at night or IMC isn't irrational. Cripes, I think it's irrational that everyone flys around that way all the time without a care! Makes me crazy! Just ask Tony C. I make him wear a parachute whenever we fly together at night. If I remember correctly, at least in the past, the Air Force required SE pilots to wear parachutes for all night or IMC flights. I think that's a darn good idea.

I'd wager however, that a night landing in almost anything is going to spook someone who's been through what JD has. The lower part of the brain stem that controls those fight or flight responses doesn't understand how many engines you have. It just knows survival and reacts to basic perceptual input from the senses. When the yawning void of eternity looms large it goes to work and the person is largely along for the ride. JD nailed it when he said "the harder I fight it, the worse it fights back." Classic. Understanding and dealing with this isn't mumbo jumbo new age touchy feely psycho crap. It's science.


I agree, a twin is a great idea. If the shakes and sweats don't magically evaporate, (and I hope they do) there are still things that can be done.

MM

 

[flyersfan31]

None of us are professional shrinks ( to the best of my knowledge).

All I can add is this: JD, you have a vast reservoir of experience. You have flown in conditions that many of us can't even imagine.

Here I am, a 225hr wunderkind (at the young age of 40), giving you suggestions. Still, I've flown at night, landed at night, and like probably everyone on this board, has had to fight off the night landing demons who are pursuing you.

My thought is this, and I think someone else mentioned it, but not in detail.

Go up with a CFI, and let them do the landings. Multiple landings. Soup to nuts. Just sit back and be a pax, in your airplane. Don't even try to grab the controls, just look and feel.

Experience is a very strong trainer. You may be letting things spook you enought to push experience out of your brain. At the risk of being trite and making silly cultural references, "be the ball, Danny." Watch Caddyshack if you haven't heard that. Feel the process, let someone else do it, over and over if need be. Watch successful night landings from the right seat. Then give it a whack. You're not a p#ssy - that is, as the touchy-feely folks might say, negative energy. Just sit back, watch it happen, then when you feel right, and feel like saying "gardammt i'm going to land this sob whether it wants to or not" then switch seats and make it happen.

Good luck. We're all counting on you.

 

[Henning]

None of us are professional shrinks ( to the best of my knowledge).

All I can add is this: JD, you have a vast reservoir of experience. Experience is a very strong trainer. You may be letting things spook you enought to push experience out of your brain.

I'm not a pro pshrink, but I grew up with one and I have a pretty decent insight in human nature. What you say above is soo very true. Now, let's look at JDs life. JD served in combat in Vietnam and survived that as well as a following career in law enforcement. Both of these situations are the same in that you learn to listen to that voice inside to keep you alive. Sometimes you ignore that voice when duty calls but you don't like it because you understand the risk. One of JDs experiences is a night SE engine failure which left him in the hospital seriously injured. He knows the risk and consequnces first hand, it's no longer a distant academic knowledge, it's very real and personal. Everyone realizes the risk but it doesn't generally effect them because we always view these events in a "can't happen to me" light. He KNOWS it can because it has. The voice inside tells him "What the F--- are You Doing? Didn't you learn anything?" He listens to that voice and takes it seriously. I'll bet you he can relate more than one story where that voice saved his life, and I bet he can relate more than one occassion where ignoring that voice brought grief.
That voice means more to him than the words of any CFI or therapist can ever say. He flew the girl because his duty to others called and it is his nature to take that duty with all seriousness and do what needed to be done regardless. In those situations he can tell that voice "I know, but I have to" and the voice goes from a yell to a mutter to allow him to operate, but it doesn't shut up and it keeps him sharp. JD is a quality man and a trained soldier, these qualities allow him to over rule the voice in the face of duty. These same qualities make him take the voice very seriously.

JD, If I'm wrong, I appologize for being presumptuous. Personally, I don't think you should try to ignore the voice. Whenever I ignore it I get F----d for it.

 

[flyersfan31]

Ergo, your push for a twin. Now I understand your reasoning, Henning. Can't say I argue with it, either.

Still, sometimes the voice can betray you (yeah, I have one too). If flying a bunch with someone else, right then left seat, doesn't do it, and a twin doesn't, then don't sweat it and hang up the headsets for night flight.

I don't think you have anything left to prove.

Good luck and best wishes. If my (limited) travels ever lead me to TX I sure hope to meet you.

Andrew

 

[Henning]

Ergo, your push for a twin.

Exactly. A professional who operates in a high risk environment quiets that voice by mitigating the risks that are available for mitigation.

I agree, he has nothing to prove, but if he desires to continue operating at night...

 

[wby0nder]

I didn't get the impression from reading JD's posts that this has anything to do with proving anything.

MM

 

[CowboyPilot]

Seriously, two things come to mind.

#1 Complete stubbornness. Tell the night who is boss! Maybe take off 1/2 hour before sundown and just fly patterns for 3 hours. Do it with a CFI if need be.

Ed, you're spot-on with this bit of advice, and that's what I'm trying to do. I don't mind the dusk or dawn flying, but the dead of night is another story entirely.

In fact, I've come in to the home field at sundown on a number of occasions. But I also know every road, alternate airfield, flat spot, etc in a 25-mile radius of the home field.

Making this whole thing harder is the fact that I enjoy seeing the sun go down on my way home and landing when the runway lights are on. 'Course, I can still see a pretty good ways since it's not completely dark.

#2 Therapy/counselling. Maybe talking with a licensed professional with this could help. I've seen a couple programs where they took people who were hysterically afraid of spiders, and by the end of their program they were fine with multiple tarantulas crawling all over their body.

I've been thinking about this, but it's a lot like married couples going to an unmarried marriage counselor for help. After I rotated out of the service, there was mandatory counseling with some idiot shrinks on the VA list. Not one of them SOB's had ever been anywhere near a battlefield.

If I could find a good counselor (like Steven) who actually flies and is current, I think that might be easier to deal with and listen to. Problem is, I'm too damned self-reliant--had to be for the past forty-plus professional years.

But I also don't like being ground-bound after sunset.

CJ, the instructor who works out of my hangar, has been going up with me in the pattern at sunset. He's also taken the left seat in the Cardinal once on an attempted dark-of-night trip to Amarillo. I say "attempted" because even though I have absolute confidence and trust in this 14,000+ hour retired AF pilot and instructor, as soon as I lost sight of seeing any lights down below while crossing over ranch country, I made him turn around.

Felt utterly miserable for doing so, but. . .

He suggested me hooking up with some of the pilots I pulled out of the jungles who went right back out and ask them how they did it. . . what mental tricks did they use to get back in the game.

Think I'm definitely going to pursue that angle.

I am neither licensed, nor a professional when it comes to this sort of thing, but the only way I've ever been able to get back to doing things was to just do it.

No, maybe you're not licensed or "professional," but you're one thing that trumps both--you're chock-full of common sense and grounded in the real world.

And, you got guts--plenty of 'em. Taking on that airport project the way youd did and the dedication and effort you've put into your flying and instructing is worth a helluva lot more to many of us than a few goatskins hanging on a wall or a registry in some state/national capital proclaiming that you've met the absolute lowest minimum standards acceptable. . .

Thanks, Ed.

Regards.

-JD

 

[CowboyPilot]

One word, Twin. Seriously and I recommend a Travel Air. You get that big ole T-34 tail that trims to fly on a single. As economical as a twin gets, Beech quality, and I can personnally attest from several experiences with my a$$ in craft, she will fly on one. You WILL make a runway. I flew mine many hours over a hostile and black desert and over mountains in the pitch of night where the nearest light was on a dark horizon and clearly remember thinking "I must have been nuts doing this in a single."

Believe it or not, I've been giving this some thought, but even when I've gone up with a few folks who have twins (Cheyenne, Baron, 414, Duchess--what a sweet little airplane, love it--and a 310) and we've been flying at night, I'm still breaking out in sweats.

I'm wondering if it's the "not knowing what's down there" same as the first time that's doing me in. . . Ed's right--I probably need to get ahold of a good, experienced aviation counselor and see what the REAL fear is.

I doubt you'll get over the SE Night problem since it's already bitten you once bad, and as you have said before, we are much alike. You're brain isn't going to let you rationalize this away. You understand all to well how dangerous rationalization is. Your problem is not fear JD, Your problem is understanding and your mind won't let you lie to yourself.

I used to carry two syrettes around my neck on missions where I was solo or going to be on the ground for a while. One was a decent dose of morphine that would kill any pain plus make me incoherent for at least 24 hours. The other would kill me.

My biggest fear wasn't in dying--it was in being captured.

I'd pulled over 20 American aviators out of the dunghole roving POW camps that served as staging grounds before the Hilton and others. I saw the treatment and I listened to the aviators and crewmembers tell me the Hell they went through.

I've never been all that brave--just able to command my fear long enough to let training take over--and the thought of being captured scared the sh-t out of me. Bad. Because I knew what it would entail.

I remember the impact into the trees and I remember cussing a blue streak wanting the engine mount to break so I wouldn't be tumbling down those trees nose first. I remember the fire. I remember it every morning in the mirror. Broken bones are one thing. Concussion and internal injuries are another thing. But fire. . . there is no pain like being burned alive while you're crawling through the wreckage.

It's fear that's got me, all right. I guess I gotta figure out what kind of fear it is and IF it can be beat.

But you're right--we ARE a helluva lot alike. So much so that I was only half-joking when I made the offhanded remark on the red board about wondering if I sired you somewhere 'long the way over in Europe. Guess if I was to ever have a son, he'd (hopefully) grow up to be a helluva lot like you.

Regards.

-JD

 

[Henning]

He suggested me hooking up with some of the pilots I pulled out of the jungles who went right back out and ask them how they did it. . . what mental tricks did they use to get back in the game.

I was a teenager when my dad was a pshrink for the VA and I used to go in and visit with vets and talk to them. This subject actually came up with one guy who flew Air Cav and had been shot down several times with the last leaving him a quad. When I asked him how he could go back so many times his answer was "It was my job. Those guys on the ground were in a lot worse shape than I was."

 

[Henning]

But you're right--we ARE a helluva lot alike. So much so that I was only half-joking when I made the offhanded remark on the red board about wondering if I sired you somewhere 'long the way over in Europe. Guess if I was to ever have a son, he'd (hopefully) grow up to be a helluva lot like you.

Regards.

-JD

I understood what you meant, and I thank you, that's a hell of a compliment.

PS, When we meet, I'll show you my burn scars. Fire and I have a close relationship as well. God blessed me and my face didn't scar, but I carry plenty of others. Fire is why I won't fly the A,B,or C model Pawnees.

 

[CowboyPilot]

The fact that you flew those patterns last night tells me that you want to get over this. So I don't think you'll be satisfied without taking this further. Some good ideas have been posted. Flying a twin would be nice but maybe it's not a choice for you as it's not for me.
I think your crash was a maintenance issue over which you didn't have control. Flying a SE plane that YOU KNOW is properly maintained may help. After my engine out I had the engine overhauled by a well respected shop and stick to a "fix squawks as soon as you know of them, not at the next annual" policy. This helped, but did not eliminate, my concerns of flying night, low IMC and over mountainous terrain.
Take baby steps like you did last night. Fly a plane you know and trust. Fly with another pilot that you really click with (I don't see why it would have to be a CFI.)
If I were a betting man, my money would say you beat this.

I know for fact that you're definitely on to something with this.

I made that medical flight a couple of years ago in the Cardinal. It was before I'd finished rebuilding the Skyhawk. It was definitely more comfortable, definitely faster, but most important, I had a whole lot of confidence in it--still do. But not total confidence.

I'm thinking/HOPING that when I finishing building the Lancair that I will have 100% total confidence in the airplane. I didn't do 100% of the RV--the partner I have in that did a lot of the mechanical work (he's a wrench-twister from way back). Nonetheless, I'm very confident in it. Except that when you pull the power in it, you go down. Fast. You go down fast in a Lancair, too.

But. . . if I build the plane, starting with the builder's assist in Oregon and am there with my hands on every single step in the process and get several hundred hours in it, with a panel that is IFR and then some and a few things like back up electrical power and then keep a good handheld with me. . .

I went up in the Skyhawk last night because I know that plane pretty dang well. Went through all the cables, nuts, bolts, sheet metal screws, wiring matrixes, etc while the engine was being completely overhauled. Had the mags rebuilt, generator and starter rebuilt, instruments bench-checked. Had a couple of semi-forced landings when I had some electrical problems (prior to the rebuild) and she was as cooperative and docile as could be.

Also, fixed gear, fixed pitch prop so everything in the pattern was KISS simple and I could just concentrate on the basics of attitude and airspeed.

And you're right, Lance. Knowing that I have complete confidence in this little bird does help. Probably ought to use her to venture a little further out each time.

Good thoughts. Definitely appreciate them.

Regards.

-JD