OSH 2014 -- Who's In?

I always bring ear plugs and I use them when I watch the air show.

I like the vintage warbirds and jets. The little aerobatics planes that just spin around and go wwwwAAAAwwwwwAAAAwwwwwAAAwwwwAAAA the whole time I could sleep through the whole act.

:D
 
I always bring ear plugs and I use them when I watch the air show.

I like the vintage warbirds and jets. The little aerobatics planes that just spin around and go wwwwAAAAwwwwwAAAAwwwwwAAAwwwwAAAA the whole time I could sleep through the whole act.

:D

I wish there was one airshow day where they pulled the plug on the announcers. I'd prefer to hear the sound of the B-29 vs an announcer reading a Wiki article about one or hearing Sean Tucker's son describe every maneuver during the act.
 
And thanks for the tip about the plywood. I'll make some or find something equivalent.

I bought some cheap nylon cutting boards from the kitchen supply aisle at Walmart. They work great for the small 5.00x5 tires on an RV and don't splinter and fall apart like waterlogged plywood can.
 
Mid-day, I see the Colonel who wrote that book on the F-117 and had been doing forums and selling books that year, getting packed up to leave, in the row across from our 182. We'd had an evening conversation the evening prior about his 182 and how often he flew and why and all that jazz. I walked over and helped him push without waiting for him to ask.

That would be Brad O'Connor, my hangar mate for the past decade or so... He no longer has the 182... traded up to a nice V35 Bonanza that's a lot heavier to push around on the ground than the Cessna.
 
Mid-day, I see the Colonel who wrote that book on the F-117 and had been doing forums and selling books that year, getting packed up to leave, in the row across from our 182. We'd had an evening conversation the evening prior about his 182 and how often he flew and why and all that jazz. I walked over and helped him push without waiting for him to ask.

This is commonplace in the North 40. There will be people standing next to your strut before you even go looking for help. Everyone there is a pilot or knows enough to know you'll need a hand.

That's part of the magic of the place. It isn't about the big tents and fancy displays. It's about hanging with your tribe. Folks who already know exactly what you're doing because they do it too.

I go to see people I otherwise wouldn't see all year. The continuous sound of radial engines and jets and the occasional Extra flinging itself around the sky and the never-ending helicopters going around the sightseeing pattern, are just a great backdrop for hanging with people who "do" aviation.

I still credit Kent for banging that into my thick skull the first year I went. I was all twitterpated that we were stuck in a hotel room in Green Bay instead of on the field. He showed me around the ramp and Scholler around midnight one night and got me to really look at what I was standing in the middle of.

You go to be a tiny part of a small CITY of nothing but aviation enthusiasts. A city that only exists together for one week every summer and then disappears until next year.

Some of us are slower than others. If you think it's all about all the airplanes and "stuff" and alphabet soup groups and the crap in the magazines and here all year long about regs, and gear, and techniques, and teaching methods... Yadda yadda yadda... Stay on the grounds until well after dark and all that stuff is shut down other than the magical linemen changing the static displays in the square... And just look and listen and realize there's no other place on the planet where you are completely surrounded by thousands of other people who "get it".

It's a week long family reunion. You might even run into Harrison Ford or Bob Hoover being shuttled around on a golf cart, or catch Sean Tucker signing autographs somewhere, but you'll guaranteed run into tons of people like yourself that you'd be happy to sit next to in a lawn chair with a radio on, watching airplanes land on 27 for hours while baking in the sun and everyone making running commentary on the good and bad landings, crazy traffic, and the occasional mishap. ("Did that Taylorcraft just have a prop strike? Oh man..." Or... "A flight of six warbirds just checked in over Warbird Island and there's one, two, three... I count seven in the downwind. You?" ... "This is going to be interesting!")

Or there's always just getting to meet well-sunburnt and possibly intoxicated PoAers. That's possible at other PoA fly-ins too, but OSH is different.

Well said! :cheerswine:
 
I bought some cheap nylon cutting boards from the kitchen supply aisle at Walmart. They work great for the small 5.00x5 tires on an RV and don't splinter and fall apart like waterlogged plywood can.


That's a great idea too.
 
One of the perils of owning a Cardinal. There's no place to push/pull except the prop and tow bar.
 
One of the perils of owning a Cardinal. There's no place to push/pull except the prop and tow bar.

That's true of most planes. Skyhawks are the last planes to have struts (to push/pull on) holding on the wings, no?
 
You can push on the wings...

On some airplanes the leading edges are not suitable for pushing. On a Cardinal, you might get it backwards like that (though the leverage is against you) but you won't go forward.

One trick is to open the doors and push on the door frame (not the door itself).

The first year I parked in the North 40 (1993) it was real soupy up there and it gook a lot of people yanking on the 172 I had to get it out of the ruts.

I can't say I've had the problem down in Vintage. Probably due to the fact that the Navion has much bigger tires for the weight.
 
Last edited:
On some airplanes the leading edges are not suitable for pushing. On a Cardinal, you might get it backwards like that (though the leverage is against you) but you won't go forward.

One trick is to open the doors and push on the door frame (not the door itself).

The first year I parked in the North 40 (1993) it was real soupy up there and it gook a lot of people yanking on the 172 I had to get it out of the ruts.

I can't say I've had the problem down in Vintage. Probably due to the fact that the Navion has much bigger tires for the weight.
Thus, the plywood. Or cutting boards. lol

Put either one under the wheels on Day One, and getting out on Day Seven is much easier.
 
Leslie and I just bought our weekly passes and Camp Scholler passes. We will be in Camp Bacon again this year. Her mother won't be with us, unfortunately. We're still planning to have the PoA dinner there on Tuesday as usual, and the Babes dinner on Thursday. It'll be stressful without Mom to help out this year! We still haven't decided if we'll be there the entire week this year. Leslie deserves some time to relax and recuperate.
 
Leslie and I just bought our weekly passes and Camp Scholler passes. We will be in Camp Bacon again this year. Her mother won't be with us, unfortunately. We're still planning to have the PoA dinner there on Tuesday as usual, and the Babes dinner on Thursday. It'll be stressful without Mom to help out this year! We still haven't decided if we'll be there the entire week this year. Leslie deserves some time to relax and recuperate.

I'll be happy to assist with cooking chores. I doubt I'm as useful a mammal as Leslie's maternal unit, but I do have skills.
 
On some airplanes the leading edges are not suitable for pushing. On a Cardinal, you might get it backwards like that (though the leverage is against you) but you won't go forward.

One trick is to open the doors and push on the door frame (not the door itself).

The first year I parked in the North 40 (1993) it was real soupy up there and it gook a lot of people yanking on the 172 I had to get it out of the ruts.

I can't say I've had the problem down in Vintage. Probably due to the fact that the Navion has much bigger tires for the weight.

Can you pull on the prop as long as you hold both sides as close to the center as possible? That's what I've always done. Hope I haven't been doing something wrong...
 
Can you pull on the prop as long as you hold both sides as close to the center as possible? That's what I've always done. Hope I haven't been doing something wrong...


I'm gonna stick my neck out and say no.

It may be o.k. on level pavement for just a few feet, but you're tugging on your motor mounts.

Certainly not suitable if you latch onto it with a rope or two or three big guys pulling on the prop to get out of the mud. :nono: You could tear your motor mounts. Or engine frame stress.
 
Last edited:
I'm gonna stick my neck out and say no.



It may be o.k. on level pavement for just a few feet, but you're tugging on your motor mounts.



Certainly not suitable if you latch onto it with a rope or two or three big guys pulling on the prop to get out of the mud. :nono: You could tear your motor mounts. Or engine frame stress.


Does the engine pull on those mounts? ;)

It's really going to depend on how hard you pull. I doubt one chubby pilot leaning backward and not jerking is pulling with even close to the force the prop pulls on that same hardware. I'm not capable of pulling with the equivalent of 230 horsepower.

I am capable of jerking and being rough though. So I don't do that. :)
 
I'm gonna stick my neck out and say no.

It may be o.k. on level pavement for just a few feet, but you're tugging on your motor mounts.

Certainly not suitable if you latch onto it with a rope or two or three big guys pulling on the prop to get out of the mud. :nono: You could tear your motor mounts. Or engine frame stress.

Whaa? Motor mounts? Don't those see a whole lot more force when the prop is pulling against them in flight?

IMO, there is no problem with pulling on a prop as long as you grab it as close as possible to the hub and as long as the mags are off so you don't get a surprise.
 
Whaa? Motor mounts? Don't those see a whole lot more force when the prop is pulling against them in flight?

IMO, there is no problem with pulling on a prop as long as you grab it as close as possible to the hub and as long as the mags are off so you don't get a surprise.


The thread was drifting about getting out of the mud. Not just pushing a plane around. I was saying no in that vain. It would probably hurt the prop before it hurt the mounts or the engine frame, but ..

It's a fact you are pulling on the entire assembly if you are pulling on the prop. You're pulling on the prop, the shaft, the engine, it's mounts, and ultimately the engine frame and firewall.

Visualize you could theoretically pull the engine out of it's cradle or worse with a truck and a chain around the prop on a bird stuck in the mud. :eek:
 
Can you pull on the prop as long as you hold both sides as close to the center as possible? That's what I've always done. Hope I haven't been doing something wrong...

I will though on the Navion the prop hub sits pretty high so it's not always a convenient tugging point even for me at 6'1".

If you want to do that down in Vintage, you'll be doing it yourself. Volunteers there aren enjoined from touch props either to move aircraft or to start them.
 
I will though on the Navion the prop hub sits pretty high so it's not always a convenient tugging point even for me at 6'1".

If you want to do that down in Vintage, you'll be doing it yourself. Volunteers there aren enjoined from touch props either to move aircraft or to start them.
I can pull Amelia out of the hangar by pulling on her prop with one finger.

A far cry from Atlas...
 
I can pull Amelia out of the hangar by pulling on her prop with one finger.

A far cry from Atlas...

I can pull the Navion out of the hangar easy as well, but it's down hill. Going back into the hangar takes Atlas.

For a second there, I thought Atlas was your name for either the pathfinder or the POS cherokee.
 
That was his name for the Pathfinder.
Yep, we called him Atlas for good reason. That danged airplane could carry four 200 pound guys, 84 gallons of gas, and 150 pounds of luggage, and STILL not be over gross or out of CG. if you need a load hauler, the Piper Pathfinder is just hard to beat, dollar for dollar.
 
I'm gonna stick my neck out and say no.

It may be o.k. on level pavement for just a few feet, but you're tugging on your motor mounts.

Certainly not suitable if you latch onto it with a rope or two or three big guys pulling on the prop to get out of the mud. :nono: You could tear your motor mounts. Or engine frame stress.

Really? What pulls the plane along when flying? If your gear is stuck, you'll bend something else before you break the engine.
 
Really? What pulls the plane along when flying? If your gear is stuck, you'll bend something else before you break the engine.


Not my gear. :nono:

If mine were stuck in the mud, the gear would be the only place I would want to attach to and pull if we couldn't push or pull it out with the tail handles.

Everyone always wants to say: "but it pulls the plane in flight, and has all kinds of forces on it" .... some people even lift the whole plane with an engine hoist by the engine when they want to do gear work and such as that ... I won't do it. There's a difference between static pull and flight forces. We delved into this issue in another thread, and we couldn't find where lifting the plane by it's engine frame was recommended by any manufacturer. Pulling or pushing on a plane by it's prop/engine frame/firewall mounts I'm pretty sure is not recommended either.... :dunno:
 
I will be driving up Friday with my son and staying Friday/Saturday
 
OK, I guess I started this "pulling on the prop" discussion so I'll say that I have been pulling and pushing on my prop (close to the hub) since I owned it. I use one hand on the prop and the other on the steering bar. I will definitely add parking boards to my packing list. If I do need help I will instruct folks on pushing on the door jambs.
 
Yeah, getting back to Oshkosh.

Do you monitor 120.7 all the way from 15 miles before Ripon to touchdown?

Or do they give you frequency change at Pickett/Fisk?
 
Not my gear. :nono:

If mine were stuck in the mud, the gear would be the only place I would want to attach to and pull if we couldn't push or pull it out with the tail handles.

Everyone always wants to say: "but it pulls the plane in flight, and has all kinds of forces on it" .... some people even lift the whole plane with an engine hoist by the engine when they want to do gear work and such as that ... I won't do it. There's a difference between static pull and flight forces. We delved into this issue in another thread, and we couldn't find where lifting the plane by it's engine frame was recommended by any manufacturer. Pulling or pushing on a plane by it's prop/engine frame/firewall mounts I'm pretty sure is not recommended either.... :dunno:

No, with your gear you'll put the plane on its nose far before you hurt anything along the driveline.

Static pull is easy and static, inflight forces can be jerky and are dynamic with gyroscopic forces available to stress it at any angle with potential for multiple G shocks to multiply the effects.

Nope, if I can't pull a plane by the prop or pick the mains of a taildragger off the ground by the pick point of the engine without doing damage, I'm not flying the plane. Similarly I will maneuver a 172 around the ramp by pushing down on the horizontal stab spar to get the nose wheel off the ground. I do that as part of a preflight on a new to me plane anyway to check the structure.if that spar can't handle it on the ground, then you're stupid to take it in the air.

Planes may be light, but they are rugged.
 
Stop pulling my prop. ;):D

How did we get off on a circular maze of logic on how to push your airplane around in a KOSH thread? We're half agreeing on everything and nothing. Again.

I want to know if I'm going to get a frequency change after Fisk.
 
Yeah, getting back to Oshkosh.



Do you monitor 120.7 all the way from 15 miles before Ripon to touchdown?



Or do they give you frequency change at Pickett/Fisk?


I believe it's in the NOTAM. ;)

But if they want you to switch frequencies, they'll tell ya. Just like any other controlled airport.

Out at Fisk they're using handhelds, I believe. They'll switch ya to Tower for the appropriate runway.

The trick to the NOTAM is knowing where to go and how to stay in the correct pattern depending on which runway they're landing on. There's multiple patterns going on simultaneously.
 
Stop pulling my prop. ;):D

How did we get off on a circular maze of logic on how to push your airplane around in a KOSH thread? We're half agreeing on everything and nothing. Again.

I want to know if I'm going to get a frequency change after Fisk.

Yeah, you go to a tower freq, they'll give you a handoff freq as they give you a runway, at least that's the way I remember it.
 
Yeah, you go to a tower freq, they'll give you a handoff freq as they give you a runway, at least that's the way I remember it.


A'yup.

And depending on when you arrive, a bunch of us will be sitting in lawn chairs along the runway holding up scorecards listening to you on the tower freq.

No pressure. ;)
 
A'yup.

And depending on when you arrive, a bunch of us will be sitting in lawn chairs along the runway holding up scorecards listening to you on the tower freq.

No pressure. ;)

My landing at OSH in the 310 was a thing of beauty because they told me at the last minute to land long on 36(?) R, the taxiway, and I just added a couple inches of throttle and let the last 50' go by at 75fpm and she just rolled on by herself padded in ground effect. They said on the radio no VAC spots for twins were left, but they directed me there anyway and put me on the end of I-195.

Hopefully I get back over for OSH and can get a spot right around there again this year.
 
I will definitely add parking boards to my packing list.

See KITPLANES January 2013 for a set of designed stuff (parking boards, PVC chocks, bridge spike tiedowns, etc.) specifically for Oshkosh.

If there is enough interest, I'll post the PDFs that the article was made from.

Jim
 
I pray to the almighty taildragger Gods right now that I don't pull a mangled three bouncer at oshkosh. :yesnod:

Do you look left or right to see those judges signs?

:lol:


best-gifs-pt6-rough-landing.gif
 
I pray to the almighty taildragger Gods right now that I don't pull a mangled three bouncer at oshkosh. :yesnod:



Do you look left or right to see those judges signs?



:lol:





best-gifs-pt6-rough-landing.gif


We never hope for out of control stuff, of course, but I've seen two ground loops and a T-Craft prop strike.

The judges tend to cringe and say "ohhhhh" in unison when that happens. So don't bother looking for the signs if you do that. :)
 
Back
Top