Experimental Aircraft End

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jesse said:
I know lots of experimental aircraft owners. I know lots of certified aircraft owners. You may not like it, but I can tell you when it comes to performing unauthorized maintenance and unauthorized modifications the certified owners are by far more guilty (not that I blame them really).
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I agree, Jessee.

One owner did impeccable work but I had to refuse to annual his plane because he never logged his work or told me what he did. I wasn't going to risk my ticket for him.
 
brien23 said:
My post is not directed at all Experimental operators just the few who do not care or just do what they want are the problem. Those who are trying to do the right thing and working within the system are not the problem.
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Why are you obsessed to govern them? If they find a better way why not? If they kill themselves trying who cares? Why are you obsessed with a few when the many comply? Do you also stand on the curb with a radar gun and a sign that says " Slow Down"?

Its called personal responsibility.
 
What does Brien have to say about the guy who sits down with a couple beers, a pen and some napkins. Draws up a conceptual sketch, then retires to his office/den, and draws up a set of blueprints, then takes those blueprints out to his garage and (over several years) builds an airplane, and flys it.
The builder has no idea what it's going to behave like, but based upon his research, it should behave somewhat like an airplane. There have been no others like it before, he didn't buy a kit, or a set of plans.
He does have a background in working on certified aircraft, so he has an idea about materials (strength/weakness) and how to use them. He doesn't have an engineering degree, or any education beyond highschool.
I guess this would fall under the heading of a "rouge" experimental builder.
 
brien23 said:
Experimental aircraft owners are great at building informative groups lots of information. A lot of owners do a real good job of building their Aircraft and know how to maintain them. Problem arises when some rogue owners think or don't know or don't care what their letter of authorization is, change engine types, props or other major parts of the plane and still operate it under the original Special Airworthiness Certificate. The Experimental Aircraft group has done a real poor job of getting the word out about what is legal and what is not. Those of you who know what you can and can't do need to get the word out and clean up your own rogue pilots. If you Experimental Aircraft types don't clean up your act, the FAA will step in and you probably wont like new rules and regulations they might come up with.:nono:
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I like how guys complain about something and then tell other people to go fix it.

Dude, if you're aware of an individual who is unaware of the rules or who is intentionally breaking the rules, address the issue personally. Ranting about it on a message board and deferring responsibility to someone else is pitiful.
 
There are rogues everywhere. More laws won't stop them; in fact, they hate laws and break them out of spite. Just drive down the highway for five minutes for some examples of road rogues. Will more laws make any difference to those guys? Nope. Same as the pilots of certified airplanes that cheat on maintenance or buzz someone's house or loop their 172s.

Dan
 
kyleb said:
Ranting about it on a message board and deferring responsibility to someone else is pitiful.
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No, it is not even worthy of one's pity. Or the time it takes to reply on said message board.

Wait . . . Fudge! :mad2:
 
If it weren't for rouges...

Photo-1-WINGS-OF-GOLD-Glenn-Curtiss-teaches-first-naval-aviator-to-fly1.jpg
 
I like how this was not posted on the EAA website. This poster has a problem with Experimental but posts on a GA forum.
Post this here and lets see what these people have to say about this.
http://eaaforums.org/forum.php?

Tony
 
There are a great many of us EAB guys on here too. Most of us trained in and flew/owned a certified plane first. I enjoy this site much more now that we finished our -10. Topics don't have to be "RV related" here. Well, some were allowed to go off topic over there. What few EAB guys I have been around seem to want to do things properly and safe. Look at the recent NTSB reports. I bet we are ALL still killing ourselves/family/friends by running into bad wx, running out of fuel, showing off or stall/spinning them in. It does not seem to matter the age, hours, ratings or vfr/ifr. We need to take care of the remaining few pilots we have left and stick together.
 
RV10flyer said:
There are a great many of us EAB guys on here too. Most of us trained in and flew/owned a certified plane first. I enjoy this site much more now that we finished our -10. Topics don't have to be "RV related" here. Well, some were allowed to go off topic over there. What few EAB guys I have been around seem to want to do things properly and safe. Look at the recent NTSB reports. I bet we are ALL still killing ourselves/family/friends by running into bad wx, running out of fuel, showing off or stall/spinning them in. It does not seem to matter the age, hours, ratings or vfr/ifr. We need to take care of the remaining few pilots we have left and stick together.
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Yes Yes Yes. And Help those trying to get into this hobby sport what have you by offering in anyway we can a helping hand with out that hand being put out waiting for cash to hit it first.

I wish more had your attitude.

Tony
 
User's Agreement and rules of Conduct for the Pilots of America Message Boards.
Personal attacks are prohibited. This specifically means any text/post that is
blatantly attacking another person on or off the forum, especially in personal way.

Some of you should read the rules of conduct again.
 
It's your airplane, certified or experimental, do whatever you want with it.

There is junk in the experimental world, and there is junk in the certified world.

People often wonder why the FAA Inspectors do such a detailed inspection of an aircraft before conducting a checkride. I've seen my share of airplanes I would never get into and fly.

Bottom line, be responsible for yourself.
 
Scary stuff. I'll try to remember next time I buy an experimental.

Had I known then what I know now, I would have spent the money for our beloved 180 on a new CompAir or other similar E/AB.

Hate posts confirm the direction E/AB is going to me .. pretty soon, we're going to have two classes of pilots. Partial glass steam pilots, and far out SVT latest digitech computer E/AB pilots. Like dinosaurs and astronauts.
 
txflyer said:
Scary stuff. I'll try to remember next time I buy an experimental.

Had I known then what I know now, I would have spent the money for our beloved 180 on a new CompAir or other similar E/AB.

Hate posts confirm the direction E/AB is going to me .. pretty soon, we're going to have two classes of pilots. Partial glass steam pilots, and far out SVT latest digitech computer E/AB pilots. Like dinosaurs and astronauts.
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That's me dinosaur pilot simply look out the window, if the picture ain't right, fix it.
that's why I built my instrument panel like this.
 

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Tom-D said:
That's me dinosaur pilot simply look out the window, if the picture ain't right, fix it.
that's why I built my instrument panel like this.
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That's probably one of the best restoration jobs on a 170 panel I've seen.

I love the old birds, but I would love to have a stick, and SVT, and other tweaks and perks that are just out of reach and totally wacked to try and justify on a certified slow old frame.

We need to move into the future and let go at some point. Glass and fiber and smooth slick airframes are here for the taking, but we digress. Why? Is it cost? Stubborness? Or loyalty? Hell, I thought I was going to be George Jetson by now with my own flying car out of my kitchen ... :rolleyes:;)
 
Tom-D said:
That's me dinosaur pilot simply look out the window, if the picture ain't right, fix it.
that's why I built my instrument panel like this.
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That is a VERY nice looking panel................. But....

Since the topic is.. "EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT"

You didn't build it, or engineer it or test it like us experimental guys have to do.....

You just re- assembled it like Cessna had done it 50 years ago.....

There is a "slight" difference ya know..;) IMHO...:D
 
brien23 said:
User's Agreement and rules of Conduct for the Pilots of America Message Boards.
Personal attacks are prohibited. This specifically means any text/post that is
blatantly attacking another person on or off the forum, especially in personal way.

Some of you should read the rules of conduct again.
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Wouldn't this apply to you blatantly attacking pilots and owners of experiments for no reason? :nono:
 
brien23 said:
My post is not directed at all Experimental operators just the few who do not care or just do what they want are the problem. Those who are trying to do the right thing and working within the system are not the problem.
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But there are the same rogue pilots that fly certified aircraft as well. They fly planes that are out of annual, have non certified parts on them and as someone else mentioned don't even have a certificate to fly. So why are you hammering on the Experimental group?
 
Dean said:
But there are the same rogue pilots that fly certified aircraft as well. They fly planes that are out of annual, have non certified parts on them and as someone else mentioned don't even have a certificate to fly. So why are you hammering on the Experimental group?
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Because we are cutting into his self perceived gravy and he thinks the world cannot get along without him.....:idea:..........;)...

Probably Tom's son... :rolleyes2:
 
Dean said:
But there are the same rogue pilots that fly certified aircraft as well. They fly planes that are out of annual, have non certified parts on them and as someone else mentioned don't even have a certificate to fly. So why are you hammering on the Experimental group?
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That's the real question here, isn't it? As many here have observed, as have I, the rogue issue seems to be far more prevalent with the drivers of certified aircraft than experimentals.

So, what's his issue? Personal gain/loss? A severe case of "we against them" attitude? Did someone pee in his Post Toastees the other morning? I don't know, but his attack was completely unfounded and uncalled for. And, for Tom-D to jump to his defense was just icing on the cake.

And this is coming from a C182 driver who has only once flown an experimental.

It seems to me that someone(s) needs to knock the chip(s) off of their shoulder(s).

"Can't we all just get along?"
 
txflyer said:
...pretty soon, we're going to have two classes of pilots. Partial glass steam pilots, and far out SVT latest digitech computer E/AB pilots. Like dinosaurs and astronauts.
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Some of us E/AB pilots still have and like steam panels, though if I had the money to do so, I'd definitely upgrade to something like a new Dynon SkyView panel (and perfectly legally do all the work and logbook entries myself as mere owner :thumbsup:)
img57311.jpg
 
N801BH said:
That is a VERY nice looking panel................. But....

Since the topic is.. "EXPERIMENTAL AIRCRAFT"

You didn't build it, or engineer it or test it like us experimental guys have to do.....

You just re- assembled it like Cessna had done it 50 years ago.....

There is a "slight" difference ya know..;) IMHO...:D
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I designed and built that panel from scratch. It looks nothing like a 48 170's factory panel.
 

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N801BH said:
Because we are cutting into his self perceived gravy and he thinks the world cannot get along without him.....:idea:..........;)...

Probably Tom's son... :rolleyes2:
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that statement is showing you would rather kill the messenger than understand the problem.

Pretty low in my opinion. Actually show us who you are.
 
Tom-D said:
I designed and built that panel from scratch. It looks nothing like a 48 170's factory panel.
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Interesting......:idea:..

Is that legal to do in a certified plane :dunno:..

What DER did you use ..:dunno:..
 
N801BH said:
Interesting......:idea:..

Is that legal to do in a certified plane :dunno:..

Yes

What DER did you use ..:dunno:..
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You do not need a DER to do field approvals, and when you under stand the major / minor alterations rules, many times you are not required to have FAA approval.
 
N801BH said:
Because we are cutting into his self perceived gravy and he thinks the world cannot get along without him.....:idea:..........;)...

Probably Tom's son... :rolleyes2:
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I am not in it for the money, no gravy train here. I have read post of LOA that are hard to believe exist. If they exist how about scanning one in and sharing it with us, you could black out personal information you do not want to show.
 
brien23 said:
We need to move on and stop the Personal attacks.
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How is me pointing out your silly hypocracy a personal attack?

You simply want to divide GA into two parts further weakening it.

I can'thelp it if you chose the wrong career path, but don't take it out on the most successful segment of piston aircraft.
 
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brien23 said:
User's Agreement and rules of Conduct for the Pilots of America Message Boards.
Personal attacks are prohibited. This specifically means any text/post that is
blatantly attacking another person on or off the forum, especially in personal way.

Some of you should read the rules of conduct again.
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Try going into a biker bar and shouting "HARLEYS SUCK". That's pretty much what you did here. I'd say you've been treated pretty well.
 
Old Geek said:
Try going into a biker bar and shouting "HARLEYS SUCK". That's pretty much what you did here. I'd say you've been treated pretty well.
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I thought their might be a little biker bar mentality here.
 
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