new airplane and whoa!

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trackersocha

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trackersocha
have any of you guys bought an airplane, got checked out in it, and first solo out said woah?!?! what am I doing? I did, flew a 2.7 hr cross country, with one stop, and called the CFI. we have a flight scheduled for Wednesday.
 
trackersocha said:
have any of you guys bought an airplane, got checked out in it, and first solo out said woah?!?! what am I doing? I did, flew a 2.7 hr cross country, with one stop, and called the CFI. we have a flight scheduled for Wednesday.
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What did you get?
 
Yup...got my HP endorsement and check out in a 182...then bought a 182 almost immediately then flew it literally cross county. Bounced so hard on a landing somewhere in middle of nowhere New Mexico, I literally launched myself into a go around!

First flight after getting home was two days with a CFI working on nothing but landings in the new plane!...now I only bounce it kinda hard! :yesnod:
 
Shawn said:
Yup...got my HP endorsement and check out in a 182...then bought a 182 almost immediately then flew it literally cross county. Bounced so hard on a landing somewhere in middle of nowhere New Mexico, I literally launched myself into a go around!

First flight after getting home was two days with a CFI working on nothing but landings in the new plane!...now I only bounce it kinda hard! :yesnod:
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so that explains why you have more landings in your logbook than take offs... ummm hmmm... we see what you're doing there... ya sneaky aviator you...
 
Have said more than once..."Watsonville Traffic, Cessna 5-Niner-8 Turning Final Runway 2-0, Bounce and Go...Watsonville" :D
 
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I drove halfway across the USA, bought a Cherokee as a newly-minted ppasel, and flew it back home 6 hours X-C with my dad on board in the middle of winter. I only had about 2 hours of Cherokee time under my belt, but had no probs at all. The sky was clear blue the whole trip home and all my landings were smooth... the Cherokee was a piece of cake to fly and land. the hardest part of the trip was finding a small airport against the snow covered Iowa farmlands but a handheld GPS did that for me :wink2:
The whole way back home to Texas I kept saying to myself, "I can't believe I just bought an airplane and I'm flying it home myself halfway across the country".
 
...ain't nothing wrong with getting current on one landing. :)

I flew Piper 140's and 160's for a few hours before buying into a 4 way partnership Cherokee 235 very early in my PPL training. No question took some time to get used to it. Similar flying charactersitics but obviously need a heavy right foot for takeoff and landings took me a couple 1.5 hour landing sessions to get where I wasn't puckering up. The 235 floats about like a rock with wings on it when you cut power so it was kinda like re-learning how to land in a sense compared to the smaller planes.

I love it now...albeit about 300 landings later. ;)
 
100 hr+ pilot. just bought a FG saratoga. is plenty fast, and I love the bird....but holy moly...I got insurance checked out in about 5 hrs, I have about 8 hrs in a Comanche prior. now jam about 12 hrs in the toga, and not quite sure of my self. it's a lot of airplane. what do you guys think, keep with a CFI for a while?
 
that's a pretty good story


Neal Howard said:
I drove halfway across the USA, bought a Cherokee as a newly-minted ppasel, and flew it back home 6 hours X-C with my dad on board in the middle of winter. I only had about 2 hours of Cherokee time under my belt, but had no probs at all. The sky was clear blue the whole trip home and all my landings were smooth... the Cherokee was a piece of cake to fly and land. the hardest part of the trip was finding a small airport against the snow covered Iowa farmlands but a handheld GPS did that for me :wink2:
The whole way back home to Texas I kept saying to myself, "I can't believe I just bought an airplane and I'm flying it home myself halfway across the country".
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trackersocha said:
100 hr+ pilot. just bought a FG saratoga. is plenty fast, and I love the bird....but holy moly...I got insurance checked out in about 5 hrs, I have about 8 hrs in a Comanche prior. now jam about 12 hrs in the toga, and not quite sure of my self. it's a lot of airplane. what do you guys think, keep with a CFI for a while?
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Sure wouldn't hurt to fly the toga a bit more with a pa32-experienced pilot on board with you until you get more comfortable with it. Even with a thousand hours pa28 time under my belt now, the pa32 series still intimidates me. They are different beasts.
 
Moving up in a heavier HP aircraft can be challenging. Also you have to consider the weight difference when you are solo. Never hurts to have a few hours with a pilot who has a lot of time in type. Good luck you'll get it.
 
Don't spend too much time with a CFI, sometimes it is better to force yourself to deal with it.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Don't spend too much time with a CFI, sometimes it is better to force yourself to deal with it.
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Or die right? Hate for him to seem like less of a man bc he needs a cfi to help him. Man up..... right?



How many times have you almost died this week Gregg? :rofl:
 
Yup - task the CFI. I did 90% of my training in a 172 but even after getting my PPL, then taking 3 months off while I was overseas, I took my CFI with me on my first flight after my return… in a 172.
 
trackersocha said:
100 hr+ pilot. just bought a FG saratoga. is plenty fast, and I love the bird....but holy moly...I got insurance checked out in about 5 hrs, I have about 8 hrs in a Comanche prior. now jam about 12 hrs in the toga, and not quite sure of my self. it's a lot of airplane. what do you guys think, keep with a CFI for a while?
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After 12 hrs in it, what specifically are finding intimidating about the PA32?
 
At some point I would suggest loading it up with something. You need to feel the difference in handling with a full load.

PA32 is a pretty straight forward bird, just heavier, and with more power.

do what you need to feel comfortable
 
Jhernandez04 said:
Or die right? Hate for him to seem like less of a man bc he needs a cfi to help him. Man up..... right?



How many times have you almost died this week Gregg? :rofl:
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Stay on crutches too long and you do more harm then good. Why do you want the OP to fly with a permanent limp?
 
Congrats on buying a Toga. Great plane.


trackersocha said:
100 hr+ pilot. just bought a FG saratoga. is plenty fast, and I love the bird....but holy moly...I got insurance checked out in about 5 hrs, I have about 8 hrs in a Comanche prior. now jam about 12 hrs in the toga, and not quite sure of my self. it's a lot of airplane. what do you guys think, keep with a CFI for a while?
Click to expand...
 
I bought a Conquest II in 1996, had to go to Flight Safety in Wichita for intial training, had the plane delivered there to ICT. I went out on Saturday morning after my training and flew a couple hours with my sim instructor and headed home to Atlanta. Did I mention I had never been in a 441 before that week? or that it was during the Olympics in Atlanta??
Anyway, I made it fine even thought the HSI was wired backwards and showed reverse sensing from the state of the art KLN 90B.;) Mr. Hill who owned the FBO asked me about my trip when I landed, I told him it was fine and I wasn't scared a bit, if the plane had crashed I would have been fine, I was a good 5 minutes behind it the whole trip!! :D
Picked up Charlene, my 421B outside Chicago a few years back and the mechanic that was finishing up the annual and repairing a fuel leak asked me how much time I had in 421B's. I told him this would be my first take off, hopefully followed by my first landing. ;)
 
ClimbnSink said:
Is it macho to solo students with ten hours?
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YMMV

But if he requests help from a CFI, let him recieve it. Would you rather be too safe or not safe enough?

I bet your part of Seal Team 6 as bad ass as you sound. Hell, id fly with you any day that ends in Y......:rolleyes2:
 
My insurance required 20 hours dual and 50 hours total (the last 30 could be dual or solo) before I could take pax in my 182RG. I was an 80hr private pilot with all my time in pa-28-161's. That first solo in the 182RG was amazing! Spent the next 30 hours building lots of PIC XC solo and a couple IFR flights with a CFI. Such an awesome time learning my new airplane by myself. Wouldn't change those days for anything :)
 
Shawn said:
Yup...got my HP endorsement and check out in a 182...then bought a 182 almost immediately then flew it literally cross county. Bounced so hard on a landing somewhere in middle of nowhere New Mexico, I literally launched myself into a go around!

First flight after getting home was two days with a CFI working on nothing but landings in the new plane!...now I only bounce it kinda hard! :yesnod:
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Sounds like your approach speed is too high.
 
trackersocha said:
have any of you guys bought an airplane, got checked out in it, and first solo out said woah?!?! what am I doing? I did, flew a 2.7 hr cross country, with one stop, and called the CFI. we have a flight scheduled for Wednesday.
Click to expand...

I had a Grumman Tiger for years, loved it, sold it due to needing more capacity, and bought an A36 Bonanza. Insurance required 10 hours dual, 20 hours limited to 3 passengers before being unrestricted.

First few flights I was a little uncomfortable with so many things being different -- especially with how easy it was to get the plane deep in the yellow arc in comparison to the Tiger. Also, the heavier plane was a huge change from the Tiger on the controls. About the only thing easier was landing it. Anyway, I'd find myself being way too ginger with it (in the opinion from a pilot I deeply respect with a few thousand Bonanza hours).

Anyway, the idea popped in my head to just go get my Commercial rating -- with all the max-performance maneuvers to force myself to not baby the plane and really learn it -- and to use up some of those 10 hours of CFI time. In retrospect, I think it was as right as right could be for me to really dive in an truly learn a relatively more substantial plane than what I was used to. 'Knocked the written out the way with a few days using that Dauntless software, then called up the CFI. After 2 weeks of 180 precision approaches, chandelles, lazy 8s, short/soft fields -- to commercial standards -- my CFI and I felt like it was time to call the DPE. Set a date, continued to practice like crazy, and showed up feeling like I really knew and was comfortable with the "new to me" plane. kind of forced me to not be timid but also not be unsafe.

Someone mentioned flying it at greatly different weights. Totally agree. My CFI and I recruited a group that took us to max gross on a hot day to see that. Then we'd have people sit way back the 5th and 6th seats only to throw the C/G aft, then we'd do it C/G forward. Landings with full flaps, no flaps, high speed, low speed to "feel" what the plane wanted. Ditto for stalls -- flap down stalls, flap up, power on, power off -- dozens and dozens really feeling the plane talk back and getting a sense of how it would let you know something was off...

That was in September and I've now logged 120 hours in the plane -- and feel like I know the A36 at least as good I had gotten to know the Tiger. Fits like a glove / no dark areas of mystery...

Just my 2 cents on how to get up to speed in a substantially different plane...
 
oldShar said:
Sounds like your approach speed is too high.
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That...and I quickly learned that when you chop the power in a 182...unlike a 172, the thing drops outta the sky like a rock...that is being weighted down by lead bricks!

Got it down pat now (well, on a good day), but it was definitely buy a plane and "whoa...I need a some help adjusting to and fine tuning this one!"
 
I had kind of the opposite experience. My father bought a Skyhawk, dispatched me to go get it. I got a familiarization from the previous owner, and off I went from Oklahoma to Georgia with no issues. That was the first time I'd flown a Skyhawk, and was coming out of Pipers and Grummans.

'Course, that says more about the essential goodness that is the Skyhawk than my abilities.
 
what differences between the 172 and the 182 caused you to bounce a landing so much that you were launched into the go-around?

A 182 is just a slightly faster and heavier 172. And I mean slightly.
 
Well, as they say...when something goes horribly wrong it is usually a result of a series of events, not just one mistake.

Freshly minted PPL at the time...had maybe 10 hours of PIC in a 182 getting my HP endorsement, check out process, and just CFI time getting to know the 182. I trained in a 172, and correctly or not I was taught to pretty much glide it down to the runway once I crossed the threshold and pull it back to idle (I can still hear my CFI yelling "IDLE...IDLE"). Now keep in mind mastering the flare wasn't my strong suit during the whole process anyway!

The 182 is in fact only slightly heavier...but most of the weight is in the 6 banger in the nose and based on researching the 182 and learning from others I had the fear of God in me of landing hard nose first which is a common pilot mistake in the 182. Only damage to the plane I bought was just that...a prop strike from a pilot landing hard nose first and porpoising it.

Now, up to that specific landing...coming into an unfamiliar field on what was at the time the narrowest runway that I had ever seen...lined with trees on both sides. Nothing out of the ordinary now, but keep in mind my training was outta a 150'x8500' runway with miles of flat all around it. End of a 9 hour day of flying...came in too high, too fast, too worried about the runway width, gotta pee, too distracted by the trees...overshot the landing point, got to the flare, pulled back too hard to avoid the nose first problem too early, chopped the power which was instinct from my previous training and THUD, dropped outta the air like a rock...then bounced right back up...now running outta runway (probably not, but felt that way) slammed the power and went right for a go around rather than risking porpoising it and running off the end of the runway. Go arounds were one thing I WAS comfortable with! Was the best decision at the time cuz looking back on it, I wasn't experienced enough to know to recover with power and settle her back down, so who knows how it would have ended.

The 182 is a LOT less forgiving than the 172 on approach speeds in my opinion and once I learned to fly it all the way down to the runway with much more power than I would have in the 172 and got the speeds dialed in, I was golden.

Now I enjoy practicing seeing how outta wack I can get my approaches and recover to a smooth landing!
 
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Shawn said:
The 182 is a LOT less forgiving than the 172 on approach speeds in my opinion and once I learned to fly it all the way down to the runway with much more power than I would have in the 172 and got the speeds dialed in, I was golden.
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My father, who has a respectable (but not large) number of hours in the 182 and light twins, keeps a small amount of throttle in because of the tendencies of these planes to sink when you cut the power back to idle. I'm sure you could do it power off but he seems to prefer the higher touchdown speed this gives you with cutting back to idle right before wheels down.

No idea if this is the best way to do it but it's an idea you might try.
 
trackersocha said:
have any of you guys bought an airplane, got checked out in it, and first solo out said woah?!?! what am I doing? I did, flew a 2.7 hr cross country, with one stop, and called the CFI. we have a flight scheduled for Wednesday.
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Only when the first payment for the new bird became due! WTF did I do?
 
To the OP:

*****Yes, get some CFI time until your comfort level goes up*****

Ignore the idiots!
(how do you think Armstrong greased that landing on the moon - lots of time in the sim with the engineers (cfi's) helping him fine tune the approach and the flare)

And (very important) learn to fly the plane by the numbers.
Every ATP does this (except the Korean dude at SFO)
Use the POH and your CFI to set up a cheat sheet to post on the panel with the important numbers.
There is a rotation speed - know it/use it. Don't just pull back on the yoke and wait for the plane to finally fly.
There is a climb speed - what is it? Do you know what pitch angle is required to attain that speed?
There is a speed on final. Know it - and fly it within 2 knots.
Use the VASI/PAPI/ILS/whatever to be sure you are on the proper glideslope angle to the numbers. Don't just wing it - and be either over the moon or dragging grass in the gear.
And speaking of glide - don't.
The machismo crap about chopping the throttle on downwind and flying to touchdown without power is not done as you move up in performance. You don't see the airliner pilots stacked like stair steps in the sky at DET doing that crap.
Use power and pitch to control your speed and glide angle until you pull the throttle to idle passing over the numbers.
And trim - proper use of trim to maintain a neutral yoke and hold your bug speed through the approach and flare will buy you greasers 99% of the time.
Fly the airplane like a pro and you will be a pro.
 
Dr. O said:
The machismo crap about chopping the throttle on downwind and flying to touchdown without power is not done as you move up in performance.
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You trying to say that you can't do a power off 180 in a PA32?

Demonstrating a simulated engine failure was a big part of my checkout in the PA32. There is less room for error compared to a PA28, but hardly a 'macho' thing.
 
The OP can fly the plane. He just needs to believe it, more CFI handholding may be counterproductive. Nothing macho about it, bet he flies his new plane fine with the instructor next to him. However he gets there he needs to force himself to be more confident. Same reason we send PP students solo with very little experience. If more instruction was always the answer we wouldn't solo PP students with the equivalent of two days of school(ten hours.)
 
guys, thanks for the responses. scrubbed the cross country due to weather. planned it again for Monday. after reviewing your posts, I think the biggest "problem" I'm having is with the approach speed. it's quite a bit faster than in my 172. bottom line, I think I need to go fly the plane more.
 
Dr. O said:
Ignore the idiots!


Use the VASI/PAPI/ILS/whatever to be sure you are on the proper glideslope angle to the numbers. Don't just wing it - and be either over the moon or dragging grass in the gear.

And speaking of glide - don't.
The machismo crap about chopping the throttle on downwind and flying to touchdown without power is not done as you move up in performance. You don't see the airliner pilots stacked like stair steps in the sky at DET doing that crap.
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If you don't learn how to glide the airplane through repeated and regular practice, you're forfeiting a major survival skill. How many times have you seen a piston single in the news after a forced landing on a field or on the highway?


Earnest Gann writes an anecdote about the difference between pilots and airmen in his book, Fate is the Hunter. Don't be just a pilot.
 
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