Drug testing on FAA third class medical?

Frank Johnson said:
Naturally, most of you assume that I am a pothead. I have smoked three times in the last 12 months, the last times happens to be a few weeks ago. You also assume my life isn't straight. I have a part time job and am working towards a degree, but that's besides the point. Also, I would never fly under intoxication. I'm talking a friday night with friends once every few months, that's all I smoke.

However, say I were to check no on that question. While that would be a federal offense,
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Yes, it would, and read the potential penalties at the bottom of that form.
how would my box checking ever be proven false if there is no drug test?
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Any number of ways -- really. And the fact that there is no drug test during the medical certification exam does not mean the FAA cannot in certain circumstances test you.

You have a choice -- being a pilot or smoking dope. Pick one or the other, but you can't do both.
 
Ah, but well intentioned fear mongering. Far better than allowing wiggle room for lying.
 
Frank Johnson said:
Naturally, most of you assume that I am a pothead. I have smoked three times in the last 12 months, the last times happens to be a few weeks ago. You also assume my life isn't straight. I have a part time job and am working towards a degree, but that's besides the point. Also, I would never fly under intoxication. I'm talking a friday night with friends once every few months, that's all I smoke.

However, say I were to check no on that question. While that would be a federal offense, how would my box checking ever be proven false if there is no drug test?
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Look man I am not judging. I have a lot of pothead frends. Every one of them says the same thing. But then, when they get fired for showing up late too many times and they drop out of college for no explicable reason, they never think the pot was culpable.

Pot, even smoked occasionally, makes you lazy and the only way to combat it is to smoke more. Not addictive? I am thinking that those friends of mine that can't function without it may be proof that it is.
 
Don't give it up before you try, you sure wouldn't be the first controller with one or three DUI's in their past. I would be more concerned about the government job prospects in a land of furloughed federal employees. You might want to think about a private sector alternative as a backup.
 
How do you get a second class medical with three dui's?
 
cg2112 said:
Someone who smokes pot only now and then could be, really, anyone.
There's a huge difference between occasional use of anything (a drink, a drug, a food, etc) and habitual use. I don't think badly of someone who smokes pot occasionally, but I also wouldn't lie about it on a medical. But then, I'm just starting to go through this process myself (Thanks, Dr Bruce), and I'd be way to worried to lie about anything on it.
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Then there're the people who habitually smoke (and/or use other drugs) who are in the upper echelons of society. They number in the thousands. Much like it certainly isn't rational to assume that anyone who drinks is a sloppy spouse-abusing drunk even though that's a rather common subgroup, habitual drug use doesn't necessarily cause people to be lazy. The use just amplifies a problem they already have. Part of the problem may also be the legality of the substances. If they were legal, I'm sure many people would take a more moderate tack with their use.

Florida "stocktoker"
7 Steps to Toke and not Get Caught
Wall Street addiction
 
I just recently had a talk with one of my friends about pot smoking - this person smokes like a chimney, and nothing I said about the ramifications if caught could change their mind.

We are gonna have any impact on this dude either.
 
SkyHog said:
Pot, even smoked occasionally, makes you lazy and the only way to combat it is to smoke more. Not addictive? I am thinking that those friends of mine that can't function without it may be proof that it is.
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I think you may be mixing up cause and effect. It is more likely that people who are inherently lazy choose to smoke weed to excess.

Look, if the OP wants to be a pilot, he needs to stop smoking weed. Period. No mas. How he chooses to answer the question on the medical is largely between himself and any higher deity he believes in, as it is extremely unlikely the feds would care enough to question it if he goes forth and sins no more.
 
I guess I am a prude. As far as I am concerned pot is illegal. You want to smoke it that is your decision. You know the risks, both legal, and medical, and only you can decide whether it is worth it. For me I prefer the natural high I get from flying.

One other issue with smoking pot, in my job I do a fair number of drug screens. The number of people who come up positive for THC and some other illegal substance typically PCP or Cocaine is quite high. The number of people who swear to me they only smoke marijuana, and do not partake in other illicit drugs despite the drug screen is almost as high. I believe a lot of them as the consequences for them are the same if they are positive for THC, as they are for other unexpected positives, and so there is no reason for them to lie. In speaking to a number of narcotic agents concerning this, it turns out that a lot of the marijuana that people buy from the dealers is either contaminated or enhanced with other substances.

So unlike when you buy alcohol from a store, when you buy marijuana from your favorite dealer you may get more than you bargained for.
 
brentee said:
Yep, that and glucose for diabetes. I'd be waaaay more worried about the mandatory prostate exam! :wink2:
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Mandatory?

Uh, oh!

Anybody know how to get a hold of one to be tested (since I dunna got)?

:eek:
 
One could delay until it would be out of one's system, mark no, and never touch the stuff again and probably not have to worry about it. That's still breaking the letter of the law by saying 'no' though.

I've never smoked the stuff because I wouldn't want to have to take a drug test and fail it. From everything I've ever heard of it and what I know from a couple people I knew who smoked "every now and then" it probably isn't any worse than alcohol.... which you probably shouldn't drink either but our society accepts as long as you don't drink&drive/fly/etc.

Societal attitudes are changing. More and more people, especially from the younger generations, think it should be legalized.. and I include myself in that group. However, right now it isn't legal and if you get caught be prepared to deal with the consequences.
 
Corpsmaide said:
.....lead him to a government Job where they ask if you have EVER used.

.
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Hmmm..

President Bill Clinton smoked Pot and Barack Obama did Cocaine. Never kept them from getting a government job...:no:.......
 
N801BH said:
Hmmm..

President Bill Clinton smoked Pot and Barack Obama did Cocaine. Never kept them from getting a government job...:no:.......
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and GWB was an alcoholic, and JFK was high on pain pills from a back injury,...and there are rumors about the founding fathers, and other presidents going way back.
 
douglas393 said:
and GWB was an alcoholic, and JFK was high on pain pills from a back injury,...and there are rumors about the founding fathers, and other presidents going way back.
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As others have pointed out there are two classes of drug abusers: The dregs of society and the kings and queens. The only clean people are middle class dorks. Man has to choose his own path, admitting to past pot use on a federal form seems dumber then lying about it, but I ain't familiar with the details. Buy a boat and smoke away, you'll have more fun and get more and better quality babes.:wink2:
 
cowman said:
One could delay until it would be out of one's system, mark no, and never touch the stuff again and probably not have to worry about it. That's still breaking the letter of the law by saying 'no' though.

I've never smoked the stuff because I wouldn't want to have to take a drug test and fail it. From everything I've ever heard of it and what I know from a couple people I knew who smoked "every now and then" it probably isn't any worse than alcohol.... which you probably shouldn't drink either but our society accepts as long as you don't drink&drive/fly/etc.

Societal attitudes are changing. More and more people, especially from the younger generations, think it should be legalized.. and I include myself in that group. However, right now it isn't legal and if you get caught be prepared to deal with the consequences.
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It is legal in some places now (like here), which I think is a good thing and I am hardly "young". On the other hand, you are still subject to the FAA and DOT rules regarding its use, just like alcohol, which I also think is a good thing.
 
N801BH said:
Hmmm..

President Bill Clinton smoked Pot and Barack Obama did Cocaine. Never kept them from getting a government job...:no:.......
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In the name of bipartisan fairness, George W. Bush also is widely said to have used marijuana and cocaine, although he refuses to discuss his drug use on the grounds that he doesn't want young people doing the things that he did as a young man.

For what it's worth, he often credits his religious conversion for helping him overcome these practices and his admitted alcohol use.

The bottom line is that a lot of our leaders, on the left and the right, have used drugs, given them up, and gone on to lead lives of influence and success.
 
Everskyward said:
It is legal in some places now (like here), which I think is a good thing and I am hardly "young". On the other hand, you are still subject to the FAA and DOT rules regarding its use, just like alcohol, which I also think is a good thing.
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Yeah, FAA has to have a higher standard. I would actually point out though that under federal law it's still illegal everywhere in the US, regardless of what state law has done.

Although that brings up an interesting thought. Suppose you had been living in some country.. the only one I can think of is Amsterdam where it is totally legal and you'd been toking it up for the past few years. Then you move back to the states and apply for a medical.... the question says illegal substances and it wasn't illegal when/where you used it so can't one in that situation answer no in complete honesty?
 
cg2112 said:
Nothing I've read indicates that a medical includes a drug test.
However, question 18m on Form 8500-8:

HAVE YOU EVER IN YOUR LIFE BEEN DIAGNOSED WITH, HAD, OR DO YOU PRESENTLY HAVE ANY OF THE FOLLOWING?:
Substance dependence or failed a drug test ever; or substance abuse or use of illegal substance in the last 2 years.

Answering "no" to this question is a federal offense, with possible serious penalties, including jail time. Answering yes will require you to explain your use, which will probably disqualify you.
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Looks like if "Frank" doesn't want to lie on the form, he just needs to wait two years without using any illegal substance.
 
I have no problem with people, in general, smoking weed. And I have some acquaintances who are marijuana users whom I would trust more behind the controls of an airplane (when sober) than some of my straight-laced friends.

That said, I think that the OP needs to understand that becoming a pilot requires, in my view, changing one's entire attitude toward engagement with the world. One must become constantly focused on safety, risk management, the minimization of potentially dangerous behaviors, and self-awareness of one's own strengths and weaknesses.

If the OP is just taking for granted that he can smoke pot recreationally and be a safe pilot, I think it's evidence that he's not adopting a safe mindset for aviation. A good pilot is one who removes potentially dangerous practices from his life and is open and honest about himself.

One could well be a marijuana user and a good pilot, I think. But if one is willing to smoke weed without due consideration for the possible physiological consequences, be unconcerned about breaking the law, solicit information about how to avoid detection, and be willing to lie on official documents, then he does not have the right mindset for aviation. That is what makes him a dangerous pilot.
 
brentee said:
Yep, that and glucose for diabetes. I'd be waaaay more worried about the mandatory prostate exam! :wink2:
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Palmpilot said:
What mandatory prostate exam?
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It isn't mandatory. Not for a flight physical, anyway. And I would challenge an AME to find mine, it was removed almost 5 years ago. Looking forward to applying for that letter of eligibility later this summer. :)
 
Tommy3 said:
In the name of bipartisan fairness, George W. Bush also is widely said to have used marijuana and cocaine, although he refuses to discuss his drug use on the grounds that he doesn't want young people doing the things that he did as a young man.

For what it's worth, he often credits his religious conversion for helping him overcome these practices and his admitted alcohol use.

The bottom line is that a lot of our leaders, on the left and the right, have used drugs, given them up, and gone on to lead lives of influence and success.
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Times were different back when Bush, Clinton and Obama were young. Experimenting with drug, drinking and driving, underage drinking, etc. didn't come with all the moral baggage and warnings it does now. At least I don't remember it that way. I think if you are looking for someone from that generation who is totally innocent you will be looking a long time.
 
Everskyward said:
Times were different back when Bush, Clinton and Obama were young. Experimenting with drug, drinking and driving, underage drinking, etc. didn't come with all the moral baggage and warnings it does now. At least I don't remember it that way. I think if you are looking for someone from that generation who is totally innocent you will be looking a long time.
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I am a recent college grad from a big state university and I can say that based on my experience you are incorrect. Except for the drinking and driving part.
 
dell30rb said:
I am a recent college grad from a big state university and I can say that based on my experience you are incorrect. Except for the drinking and driving part.
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How so?
 
Everskyward said:
How so?
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Many/most young adults equate smoking pot as being on par with underage drinking. Raise your hand here if you never drank underaged...

(ok, metaphorically speaking. I really don't care if you were a goodie-two-shoes and never broke an rule your entire young adult life...)

That said, as airman, we are held to a higher standard. While drug use or DUIs may be forgivable sins in the rest of society, here your going to be explaining yourself and hoping you can keep your ticket. Best advice is to man up, steer clear of the weed, and enjoy the memories...over a beer, and with a DD.
 
dell30rb said:
I am a recent college grad from a big state university and I can say that based on my experience you are incorrect. Except for the drinking and driving part.
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What does recent college experience have to do with what college life was like in the period that she was talking about?
 
Brad Z said:
Many/most young adults equate smoking pot as being on par with underage drinking. Raise your hand here if you never drank underaged...

(ok, metaphorically speaking. I really don't care if you were a goodie-two-shoes and never broke an rule your entire young adult life...)

That said, as airman, we are held to a higher standard. While drug use or DUIs may be forgivable sins in the rest of society, here your going to be explaining yourself and hoping you can keep your ticket. Best advice is to man up, steer clear of the weed, and enjoy the memories...over a beer, and with a DD.
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That was kind of my point. I don't think there are many totally innocent people either young or old, yet we tut, tut about what various prominent figures might have done in their youth.
 
Brad Z said:
Many/most young adults equate smoking pot as being on par with underage drinking. Raise your hand here if you never drank underaged...

(ok, metaphorically speaking. I really don't care if you were a goodie-two-shoes and never broke an rule your entire young adult life...)

That said, as airman, we are held to a higher standard. While drug use or DUIs may be forgivable sins in the rest of society, here your going to be explaining yourself and hoping you can keep your ticket. Best advice is to man up, steer clear of the weed, and enjoy the memories...over a beer, and with a DD.
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Actually, DUIs are a death knell for plenty other professions. I had a friend who got turned down for a job at HP (and not as a pilot) because has one. My friends who are nurses say that they are required to report stuff as minor as parking tickets to the Board (at least in CA). Getting a DUI can get the license revoked and good luck getting one issued if a DUI is already on record

Meanwhile, I know plenty other jobs that all mention on the app that marijuana-related infractions need not even be reported. Including at school districts. Go figure.
 
cg2112 said:
Not 20 days ago (or two years ago, for that matter), no.

But please don't misunderstand, I'm certainly not making any judgement. Just pointing out the ramifications of using then claiming you haven't.
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Sort of like all those guys using Prozac....
 
N801BH said:
Hmmm..

President Bill Clinton smoked Pot and Barack Obama did Cocaine. Never kept them from getting a government job...:no:.......
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GW Bush got 2 or 3 DUI's don't know if they are all cocaine or mixed drugs and drink....

With my record I can never run for president.....I guess I am too puritanical.
 
snoopyloopy said:
Actually, DUIs are a death knell for plenty other professions. I had a friend who got turned down for a job at HP (and not as a pilot) because has one. My friends who are nurses say that they are required to report stuff as minor as parking tickets to the Board (at least in CA). Getting a DUI can get the license revoked and good luck getting one issued if a DUI is already on record

Meanwhile, I know plenty other jobs that all mention on the app that marijuana-related infractions need not even be reported. Including at school districts. Go figure.
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Another one of those wonderful things the teachers union does for future generations of kids...:mad2::mad2::mad:
 
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