Can someone pull the plug on the FAAST team

flyingron

flyingron

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FlyingRon
I've generally had a low opinion of the intolerable empire building, ineffectional bureaucracy that is the FAASTeam. They consume a ton of my tax dollars without contributing one iota to Aviation safety.

Their latest complete load of poop is a spam email encouraging me to cram their political agenda in the form of some "Model Aviation Code of Conduct" down the throat of unsuspecting youth of America.

If there is ever a place where we need to point the sequestration canon, this idiotic organization is it.
 
On behalf of all the volunteers who make up 90% of the FAASTeam personnel and do our best to change and alter the aviation culture to be more safety-focused, thank you SOOOOOOO much.

Exactly what is a "ton of your tax dollars"? I've been a FAASTeam rep and lead rep now for about 8 years, and I've never seen a dime of it. In fact, when I calculate all the gasoline I've burned driving to give seminars or CFI workshops or... I've probably spent several AMUs.
 
Can you link the 'code of conduct' stuff from the email? I'd like to evaluate it.
 
Every FAAST presentation I have attended has been very worthwhile. I always learned something and very much appreciate their volunteer effort.

Cheers
 
The few I make it to a year usually draw in a full house of 80+ pilots and has very interesting topics covered.
 
X3 Skier said:
Like third class medical empire?:D

Cheers
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Actually that's not an "empire" (I realize you are joking). That's just bureaucracy in action.

One of the most worthless parts of the FAA presently (IMO) is "NextGen". The concept is good but the people carrying out are incompetent bureaucrats that are wasting $$$.

To give you an example I sat through a presentation of "NextGen" where the branch manager proclaimed everyone in his department were "14's" (payscale) and how they were allocated funds to get typed in and rent out Gulfstream G-5's so they could fly in the system and "evaluate" it, and as he put it "be able to touch it." Translation? "We're scamming the Agency into buying us G5 types and money to joy ride around".

Safety is a good thing and the FAAST team is at least trying to make a difference and in the scheme of things the cost is not anything unreasonable.
 
TMetzinger said:
On behalf of all the volunteers who make up 90% of the FAASTeam personnel and do our best to change and alter the aviation culture to be more safety-focused, thank you SOOOOOOO much.

Exactly what is a "ton of your tax dollars"? I've been a FAASTeam rep and lead rep now for about 8 years, and I've never seen a dime of it. In fact, when I calculate all the gasoline I've burned driving to give seminars or CFI workshops or... I've probably spent several AMUs.
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Interestingly enough, while looking for the 2123 FAASTeam budget, I stumbled on this less than ringing endorsement of the program from the GAO. Looks like the FAA is going to actively dump some of its volunteers this year and include a DC based contingency to keep the program focused. :rolleyes:

http://www.gao.gov/assets/650/649219.pdf
Created in September 2004 as the education and outreach arm of FAA, the FAASTeam consists of 154 FAA employees in eight regional field offices, along with 32 groups and 2,500 individual members from the general aviation industry. In 2011, FAA refocused the FAASTeam—from national and international activities—to promote general aviation safety and technical proficiency through a host of nationwide seminars and contact with pilots at airports...

... the FAASTeam, which will be the main vehicle for promoting the 5-year strategy to the industry, lacks the confidence of two significant general aviation industry stakeholders we interviewed, and its reorganization has not been completed. These industry stakeholders indicated that there is inconsistency in the focus of the FAASTeam. One stakeholder noted that industry “struggles to understand the role of the FAASTeam,” and the other stated that the FAASTeam is “well intentioned, but unfocused.” In addition, FAA initially planned to reorganize the FAASTeam to reduce the number of volunteers to a strong core group and to include a national FAASTeam located in Washington, D.C. However, a senior FAA official recently indicated that the restructuring of the FAASTeam is in flux and that the plan to reduce the number of volunteers to a strong core group does not begin until 2013.

We believe that until there is a strong performance management structure, input and buy-in from industry, and a respected and organized FAASTeam, the effectiveness of the 5-year strategy will be in jeopardy.
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RotorAndWing said:
One of the most worthless parts of the FAA presently (IMO) is "NextGen". The concept is good but the people carrying out are incompetent bureaucrats that are wasting $$$.
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... and they've got one billion dollars to spend this year.

http://www.dot.gov/sites/dot.dev/files/docs/dot_budget_highlights_fy_2013_smaller.pdf
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TMetzinger said:
On behalf of all the volunteers who make up 90% of the FAASTeam personnel and do our best to change and alter the aviation culture to be more safety-focused . . .
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Thank you Tim. I applaud you and our local FAASTeam members who devote their personal time to the betterment of GA. I have learned so much by attending those meetings every month. And they provide free soft drinks and cookies too, which unfortunately, I must refrain from.
 
They don't consume hardly any tax dollars. There is really only one FTE and the rest is scarffed off of others who have other duties, plus email.

If you remove the FAAST team, seminar renewal in lieu of BFR will go away.
Think, Ron, Think!
 
Besides the volumous and redundant e-mails I get from FAAST - I have nothing bad to say
 
I think maybe Ron is actually an ardent supporter of the FAASTeam and used this thread to drum up testimonials for them; at his own expense. Good job Ron!
 
ElPaso Pilot said:
... and they've got one billion dollars to spend this year.
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No they don't. They asked for a billion dollars (well, $955 million). 10% over last year is not at all an unusual request. It IS unusual for them to actually get that. More than likely, the raise (if any) will be a few percent. Given the current budget situation, it's entirely possible the raise might be negative.

There is a BIG difference between a budget request and a budget.

The first rule in making budgets is that no one will give you anything you didn't ask for.
 
MAKG1 said:
The first rule in making budgets is that no one will give you anything you didn't ask for.
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I believe that is the second rule. From my experience as a contractor to the EPA, the fist rule is that you must spend every last nickel in your budget, or your increase next year won't be as large. Near the end of the fiscal year, we were often frantic to find things to waste (er, I mean spend) money on so that we would get more next year.
 
I, too, have enjoyed seminars and other useful materials they've provided that I've used in my teaching. As pointed out, there are probably other money sink-holes within the FAA that would deserve scrutiny before eliminating FAASTeam.
 
bbchien said:
They don't consume hardly any tax dollars. There is really only one FTE and the rest is scarffed off of others who have other duties, plus email.

If you remove the FAAST team, seminar renewal in lieu of BFR will go away.
Think, Ron, Think!
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Actually the FAAST team rep within the FAA is a coveted position. It's a FG-14 paygrade, you are not attached to the FSDO (you are Region assigned but housed in the local FSDO), you only have 2 "R" items assigned in your work program, no accident duty or investigation, no enforcement duties, no FSDO duties, no certification duties.

And on top of that you get to go to seminars, host seminars and hang out with the local pilots. :thumbsup:
 
RotorAndWing said:
Actually the FAAST team rep within the FAA is a coveted position. It's a FG-14 paygrade
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I looked it up. "FG-14" means that in 2011 this dude got paid from $84K - $110K annually, plus full bennies.

Plus he can retire in his early 50s. Cuz, you know, he's "tired".

I'm with Ron. Even if it's only just one job, ELIMINATE IT. When are we going to get the message that we are broke and spending our kids' money?
 
Jay Honeck said:
I looked it up. "FG-14" means that in 2011 this dude got paid from $84K - $110K annually, plus full bennies.

Plus he can retire in his early 50s. Cuz, you know, he's "tired".

I'm with Ron. Even if it's only just one job, ELIMINATE IT. When are we going to get the message that we are broke and spending our kids' money?
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Go back and research the current government retirement program (FERS). Yes, it's possible to retire in your 50's if you want a greatly reduced retirement benefit. Even retiring at 65 is not all that great of a deal (even with having a TSP account with today's economy). And to get anywhere near descent retirement means entering the government sector in your early 20's and going till 65. The youngest Inspector I ever met was in his early 30's.

And that wonderful government healthcare that everyone thinks federal employees get?? Blue Cross/Blue Shield with hefty deductibles and huge payroll deductions.

Those "bennies" as you put it ain't that great.
 
That Model Aviation Code of Conduct is a joint project with the Academy of Model Aeronautics to keep the government (read: President, Congress and the FAA) from making radio control planes illegal in this country.
Obama is so paranoid that he wants to shut down the hobby "in the interests of national security".
For those of you who missed the memo, TFRs now include model planes in the area of the TFR. Anyone caught flying a radio control plane in the area of a TFR is now subject to fines and imprisonment.

Glenn
 
bbchien said:
They don't consume hardly any tax dollars. There is really only one FTE and the rest is scarffed off of others who have other duties, plus email.

If you remove the FAAST team, seminar renewal in lieu of BFR will go away.
Think, Ron, Think!
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That's a load of Poop bruce. A s pointed out above, the FAAST team consists of 154 FAA full time employees. They took a perfectly effective program called Wings and turned it into the bureaucratic morass (and I'd like to know what sweetheart contract deal the people who built that abomination of a software package that runs the thing is). Our local FAA employee FAAST team member does more to **** off volunteers and pilot attendees than you can imagine. I stopped going to safety seminars because I'm tired of dealing with the idiot.

Fire the FAA guys, keep the volunteers.

Wings existed fine before FAAST. It ought to survive now. If I lost WINGS as a way to keep my currency, it wouldn't be the biggest loss.
 
Shepherd said:
That Model Aviation Code of Conduct is a joint project with the Academy of Model Aeronautics to keep the government (read: President, Congress and the FAA) from making radio control planes illegal in this country.
Obama is so paranoid that he wants to shut down the hobby "in the interests of national security".
For those of you who missed the memo, TFRs now include model planes in the area of the TFR. Anyone caught flying a radio control plane in the area of a TFR is now subject to fines and imprisonment.

Glenn
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This is what happens when fear is the motivation behind legislation...
 
flyingron said:
That's a load of Poop bruce. A s pointed out above, the FAAST team consists of 154 FAA full time employees. They took a perfectly effective program called Wings and turned it into the bureaucratic morass (and I'd like to know what sweetheart contract deal the people who built that abomination of a software package that runs the thing is). Our local FAA employee FAAST team member does more to **** off volunteers and pilot attendees than you can imagine. I stopped going to safety seminars because I'm tired of dealing with the idiot.

Fire the FAA guys, keep the volunteers.

Wings existed fine before FAAST. It ought to survive now. If I lost WINGS as a way to keep my currency, it wouldn't be the biggest loss.
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Ron, I misspoke. There is only one person generating the idiotic emails.

BUT! I can't remember the prior situation exactly - but every FSDO (and that's a lot) used to have an Aviation Safety FTE dedicated to the old "outreach" program. These were the guys who would drive out to your airport meeting and drone on and on about safety. Plus there was a central support office in DC. Much MORE than 150 employees.

And as for David's video, that's idiot use of taxpayer dollars.

FAA has mistakenly turned its focus to outreach. There are some pilot they will never reach. It should be refocused to education. Like how about some useable weather products? A&P education from Rotax materials, no just LY-Con. etc etc. Heck, those that aren't going to learn, are just gonna die...and take the unsuspecting with them.
 
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flyingron said:
That's a load of Poop bruce. A s pointed out above, the FAAST team consists of 154 FAA full time employees. They took a perfectly effective program called Wings and turned it into the bureaucratic morass (and I'd like to know what sweetheart contract deal the people who built that abomination of a software package that runs the thing is). Our local FAA employee FAAST team member does more to **** off volunteers and pilot attendees than you can imagine. I stopped going to safety seminars because I'm tired of dealing with the idiot.

Fire the FAA guys, keep the volunteers.

Wings existed fine before FAAST. It ought to survive now. If I lost WINGS as a way to keep my currency, it wouldn't be the biggest loss.
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The positions before FAAST were called SPMs, and they did the WINGS program and other stuff... this is NOT new.

I know my old FPM was also involved in the deployment of SMS to 121 and 135 operations - she was not "devoted" to GA safety. And I wonder if she is who you're referring to - she's now out on the west coast.
 
docmirror said:
Can you link the 'code of conduct' stuff from the email? I'd like to evaluate it.
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The email, the whole email, and nothing but the email.

Aviators Model Code of Conduct for KidsNotice Number: NOTC4506Teaching the Aviators Model Code of Conduct to KidsYou may be familiar with the Aviators Model Code of Conduct. If so, great! If not we invite you to visit http://www.secureav.com/ to learn more. The Aviators Model Code of Conduct for Kids, an abridged and simplified explanation of the Aviators Model Code of Conduct (AMCC), was released January 2, 2013, by the project’s Permanent Editorial Board. Written for use in the classroom with language appropriate for children, the document exposes young students to important values shared by safe and successful aviators.The AMCC will introduce students to what it takes to be a good pilot, to fly safely, and be a good passenger if they take a ride in a small plane. Learning the basic rules of flying will help them succeed in many areas of their lives—as students now, and as adults in the future.Developed by a team of aviation professionals and drawing upon decades of research and experience, the AMCC promotes ongoing improvements in flying quality and safety. The AMCC: promotes flight and ground safety, professionalism, and pilot contributions to the aviation community and society at large, encourages the development and adoption of good judgment, ethical behavior, and personal responsibility, and supports improved communications between pilots, regulators, and others in the aviation industry. These attributes are important aspects of aviation safety and we thought you might want to share this material with your own children. Yes, we know that many pilots have grown children, so perhaps you will want to share this material with a school in your local area. The relevant links are as follows:The Media Announcement: http://www.secureav.com/Announcement-Kids.pdf Teaching the Aviators Model Code of Conduct to Kids (and cover letter to educators) http://www.secureav.com/Announcement-Kids.pdfThis notice is being sent to you because you selected "General Information" in your preferences on FAASafety.gov. If you wish to adjust your selections, log into https://www.faasafety.gov/Users/pub/preferences.aspx where you can update your preferences.
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RotorAndWing said:
Go back and research the current government retirement program (FERS). Yes, it's possible to retire in your 50's if you want a greatly reduced retirement benefit. Even retiring at 65 is not all that great of a deal (even with having a TSP account with today's economy). And to get anywhere near descent retirement means entering the government sector in your early 20's and going till 65. The youngest Inspector I ever met was in his early 30's.

And that wonderful government healthcare that everyone thinks federal employees get?? Blue Cross/Blue Shield with hefty deductibles and huge payroll deductions.

Those "bennies" as you put it ain't that great.
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Speaking as someone who takes home a tiny fraction of the aforementioned pay grade, has marginal health insurance and no pension, I find your comments somewhere between laughable and offensive. We are the multitudes, paying for this insanity with the sweat of our brow -- and the future earnings of our kids.

Aside from the fact that we could easily attract top-notch people at half that salary -- reason enough to kill this right there -- it is simply immoral to steal money from future generations so that we can have yet another government acronym program like FAAST.
 
There is considerable discussion as to whether education changes behavior. Some health care professionals claim there is very little behavior modification with many education protocols.
In looking at the attendees at a local FAAST, one might conclude that it is preaching to the believers. Attendees are there for social, WINGS credit and similar reasons. It's hard to tell if attendees change their behavior based on a FAAST presentation.
 
"two significant general aviation industry stakeholders"

anyone have any insight who these are?
 
After further review(thanks), I concur with the OP that this material isn't something that the feds need to spend time and tax dollars on. We can all point to this or that part of the new totalitarianism that needs to be reined in.

I"m sorry of the volunteers feel slighted, but if you are volunteering for fame, fortune and recognition that might be a problem. Volunteerism is something I'm familiar with, and we turn people away from time to time that seem to be a bit too 'involved' in the program they want to support.

Additionally, volunteers for federal programs have a nasty habit of becoming codified, specified, defined, promulgated, and eventually become regulations or laws. We had the wings program, which I was involved in, and like most people - when the FAAST program got involved and began 'helping', many of us dropped out of it, or scaled back dramatically. No offence to the people in the program, I'm sure they are all quality people heavily invested in 'helping' their fellow aviators, but sometimes you just gotta say no to too much help.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Speaking as someone who takes home a tiny fraction of the aforementioned pay grade, has marginal health insurance and no pension, I find your comments somewhere between laughable and offensive. We are the multitudes, paying for this insanity with the sweat of our brow -- and the future earnings of our kids.

Aside from the fact that we could easily attract top-notch people at half that salary -- reason enough to kill this right there -- it is simply immoral to steal money from future generations so that we can have yet another government acronym program like FAAST.
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So, what you are saying is...you were wrong about the pension?


And a tiny fraction? 1/32? 1/24?
 
N801BH said:
Aren't you a NPS employee bringing in just under 6 figures a year???
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Yes. So?

I applied, I was hired, everyone knew exactly what was expected of each other in that deal. Of course when I began I made much less.

I assume that neither you nor Jay were forced into the tyranny of self employment, nor are you barred from either private or public salaried employment. Do you also make a "tiny fraction" of high five figures? You don't have to answer. You can look up my salary online.
 
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alaskaflyer said:
Yes. So?

I applied, I was hired, everyone knew exactly what was expected of each other in that deal. Of course when I began I made much less.

I assume that neither you nor Jay were forced into the tyranny of self employment, nor are you barred from either private or public salaried employment. Do you also make a "tiny fraction" of high five figures? You don't have to answer. You can look up my salary online.
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Let's go about this a different way.....

1- Do you agree the workforce of the Federal Government is excessive ?

2- Is all the legacy costs that are paid out to all the Federal workers sustainable now.... and in the future?.

3- Is the payscale for federal workers excessive compared to similar work in the private sector?

Thanks in advance for your answers sir...
 
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