Your Thoughts

[Mike I]

You are making the incorrect assumption that you or the other driver are somehow bound by that yellow line and will actually follow it. You have just as bad of a probability of a driver looking down at his map or cell phone as a pilot.

My "incorrect assumption" is that additional information (a line) provides additional guidance to the driver?

If the line provides no protection, let's stop painting them on roads... we sure will save paint. If you took a few average drivers and turned them loose on the salt flats, with no painted lines or markings, telling them to pass each other within 5ft, each going 70mph...do you really think that this would be as safe as the Interstate?

My point is that the yellow line on a road, and the visual cues given to you by the road (the median, reflectors, and painted lines) gives drivers spatial awareness of where is "safe" for their vehicle, not straying into oncoming vehicles. Are all drivers paying attention 100% of the time? Of course not, I never said, nor inferred, anything of the sort.

If that line provides no protection, then why do we have any boundaries in aviation? All can be ignored, and many frequently are by those that are inattentive (hold short lines etc). However, most people pay attention to the guidelines most of the time, thus giving us relative safety and organization.

You have just as bad of a probability of a driver looking down at his map or cell phone as a pilot.

Perhaps, but the driver has an idea of his course in relation to an oncoming vehicle before he looks down... as well as has something visible out of the corner of his eye at all times that he knows if he and others follow properly, will aid in safety.

 

[Henning]

My "incorrect assumption" is that additional information (a line) provides additional guidance to the driver?

If the line provides no protection, let's stop painting them on roads... we sure will save paint. If you took a few average drivers and turned them loose on the salt flats, with no painted lines or markings, telling them to pass each other within 5ft, each going 70mph...do you really think that this would be as safe as the Interstate?

My point is that the yellow line on a road, and the visual cues given to you by the road (the median, reflectors, and painted lines) gives drivers spatial awareness of where is "safe" for their vehicle, not straying into oncoming vehicles. Are all drivers paying attention 100% of the time? Of course not, I never said, nor inferred, anything of the sort.

If that line provides no protection, then why do we have any boundaries in aviation? All can be ignored, and many frequently are by those that are inattentive (hold short lines etc). However, most people pay attention to the guidelines most of the time, thus giving us relative safety and organization.


Perhaps, but the driver has an idea of his course in relation to an oncoming vehicle before he looks down... as well as has something visible out of the corner of his eye at all times that he knows if he and others follow properly, will aid in safety.

To a lesser degree though than the 3D "Big Sky" theory of you won't get close enough for it to matter. The stripe is there to provide guidance because the operating space when passing is 80% full of solid matter. In aviation it's anomalous to be within 100' of another airplane and you have three dimensions with which to avoid being in the same point of space time rather than two. If you look at the miles travelled (or pretty much any method of delineation) in GA vs the Highway and look at the midair collision record, you'll see aviation collisions are a decimal of a percent of highway collisions.

 

[flyingcheesehead]

I am one of the "doofs" referred to here. I will admit "on the VOR alpha approach" is a little vague, especially to VFR pilots. I would add the following. Remember many of these doofs are trying to make a living with a boss in back trying to make a meeting we are late for because he was late getting to the airport. I have just descended from the flight levels and trying to get the plane down below 170 knots so I can get the gear out. If the weather is iffy but still VFR I may be shooting an approach. I am also burning $10 per minute in fuel. NONE OF THIS GIVES ME ONE BIT MORE RIGHT TO THE AIRSPACE THAN A STUDENT IN A 150. However the next time you hear one of these doofs just remember we are trying to fly 150 knot approach speed into a pattern full of 70 knot planes. One airport I go into regularly on the gulf coast, I am always hoping for low ceilings on arrival and departure. So, if you are doing touch and goes in the pattern and you hear a doof, might consider giving him just a little more room to get in and down and out of the way. "Just saying"

So... Which part of that prevents you from saying "5-mile straight in final to runway xxx" or something else meaningful instead of "VOR Alpha"?

I don't think anyone here will fault you for wanting to get down first. We know you've got someone in the back crackin' a whip to get them there and that you burn more fuel in an hour than most of us burn all year... We've got no problem getting out of your way. However, you need to let us know where that is in a clear and concise manner, and "on the VOR alpha" is NOT that way. Say where you are and what runway you're headed for, you'll have far fewer headaches with other traffic.

 

[rottydaddy]

No objection to getting out of the way of big iron (at least for me). And I have been known to pull off on a taxi way and wait for the dust to settle. You don't want me in front of you, and I don't want you breathing down my neck...

But, "VOR A" leaves me with no clue where you are, when you will get there, and what direction you are coming from (except at my home port where I just happen to know). Are you going to come straight in or joining the downwind? Or??? Which runway? Which way do I go to get out of the way? "5 southeast straight in to 4" at least tells me something useful.

(Of course, there are those who will get torqued about the straight in )

Oh, and I am not going 70 knots - more like 55 - and I climb at 48...:wink2:

I agree with that- some sort of position information would be very useful. I know it's a busy time, but you do know where you are, right? :wink2: