Young pilot dies after takeoff trouble - Cessna 152

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SepticTank

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SepticTank
Very sad. Practice your go arounds. RIP

There was an update after this video confirming his passing.

 
Very sad. He said he forgot to put his flaps up. :(
 
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Wow this section of the forum, really hammers the risks home.

Sorry for the kid. I still remember the sarcastic "why aren't we climbing" from my instructor the first time we did go around and I forgot as a news student does those darn flaps.

Also a reminder we should treat every time like we are still a student and don't skimp or rush those memory steps.
 
A 150 with flaps fully extended has really poor climb performance. If he forgot to retract them, he might also have forgotten to push the carb heat off, too.

If he did try to retract them and they didn't move, the switching---the flap switch or the up-stop microswitch---could be at fault. The travel-stop microswitches get contaminated when mechanics keep squirting LPS or whatever on the jackscrew, in violation of the service manual instructions for that job. It's critical stuff, especially in airplanes that don't perform well with as much flap as a 150 has.

RIP.
 
That is horrible. My first solo was from an uncontrolled field, so I've got the instructor ready to talk to me if I needed to talk to someone. Just the way they did it where I was. If you solo from a controlled field, is the CFI typically standing by with a radio? I know, not procedure, control is controllers, but some advice "just put the nose down" or even to stay on the ground rather than attempt go-around, whatever, might have helped. That's assuming it was actually first solo....initial news reports aren't known for accuracy. In any event, sad.
 
The news piece didn’t say he died. Said he was in critical condition.I hope he didn’t die.
 
Albany Tom said:
That is horrible. My first solo was from an uncontrolled field, so I've got the instructor ready to talk to me if I needed to talk to someone. Just the way they did it where I was. If you solo from a controlled field, is the CFI typically standing by with a radio? I know, not procedure, control is controllers, but some advice "just put the nose down" or even to stay on the ground rather than attempt go-around, whatever, might have helped. That's assuming it was actually first solo....initial news reports aren't known for accuracy. In any event, sad.
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I solo’d at a Class D field. My CFI was on the ramp watching with a handheld.
 
Ugh. My thoughts are with the family and the instructor. I can't imagine what either are going through.

Article from Kathryn's said "he radioed in that he had engine problems and "didn't know what to do."" Carb heat?!

Now, take that article with a grain of salt as it also said "The Northwestern University student got his pilot's license last fall. Family said he'd only flown solo a couple of times."
 
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Dan Thomas said:
A 150 with flaps fully extended has really poor climb performance. If he forgot to retract them, he might also have forgotten to push the carb heat off, too.

If he did try to retract them and they didn't move, the switching---the flap switch or the up-stop microswitch---could be at fault. The travel-stop microswitches get contaminated when mechanics keep squirting LPS or whatever on the jackscrew, in violation of the service manual instructions for that job. It's critical stuff, especially in airplanes that don't perform well with as much flap as a 150 has.

RIP.
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one summer I had the flaps fail to retract on three different 172’s. Failure to retract is entirely possible.
Unfortunately forgetting and not recognizing it is probably more likely
 
Racerx said:
Now, take that article with a grain of salt as it also said "The Northwestern University student got his pilot's license last fall. Family said he'd only flown solo a couple of times."
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So, not first solo, but it may have been a student pilot certificate he got last fall.
 
Very sad.

ATC recordings say he forgot to put the flaps up.

The flaps were up in the photos.

Wonder if he retracted the flaps all at once after airborne and realizing he hadn't retracted them sooner?
 
He may have forgot to remove carb heat (“my engine is failing”) and then after seeing flaps still down, selected flaps up all at once.

That was a hard one to listen to.
 
Cloudhound said:
Very sad.

ATC recordings say he forgot to put the flaps up.

The flaps were up in the photos.

Wonder if he retracted the flaps all at once after airborne and realizing he hadn't retracted them sooner?
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I have a bad feeling that’s exactly what he did. Probably thought the engine was failing because the airplane wouldn’t climb. His response to tower that he had left the flaps down sounded much calmer, like he thought he had corrected the issue. Incredibly sad.

Like Gann said, ‘in this business we play for keeps.’

Sobering to remind oneself that an innocent mistake that many of us have made ourselves can be so deadly.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I have a bad feeling that’s exactly what he did. Probably thought the engine was failing because the airplane wouldn’t climb. His response to tower that he had left the flaps down sounded much calmer, like he thought he had corrected the issue. Incredibly sad.

Like Gann said, ‘in this business we play for keeps.’

Sobering to remind oneself that an innocent mistake that many of us have made ourselves can be so deadly.
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The other side of that coin is we need to remember the consequences of our decisions. Things go from ok to WTF real fast sometimes and it’s almost always our fault.
 
I have surely made worse mistakes than forgetting the flaps, when I started flying. Sometimes I immediately recognized them, sometimes I didn't, but I have been lucky enough that they never happened together at the same time. He may have had more than one issue going on, flaps, carb heat, mixture and possibly even engine problems independent of his actions.
 
Uy that's a hard one to take.
Anyone have more details on what happened?
Was he trying to go around and couldn't clear an obstacle at the end of the runway with full flaps so he stalled it?
 
CFIs, take this as a learning moment, this is why you should restrict your students to no touch and go.
 
I remember practicing no flap landings because my flaps had "failed" in primary and flight reviews. I don't recall ever practicing full flap go arounds.

Full flaps in the 160hp Warrior with CFI and me would climb, IIRC. Barn door flaps in a C150 with just 1 on board wouldn't climb?

What do you do if the flap motor fails down and you have a go-around? In hindsight, in the Warrior with the Johnson bar, I'm guessing they can't fail down. You click the release button and air pressure would put them up?

What do you do in a Cessna if you need to go around and that motor fails down? Is there a procedure? Land straight ahead?
 
Terry M - 3CK (Chicago) said:
I remember practicing no flap landings because my flaps had "failed" in primary and flight reviews. I don't recall ever practicing full flap go arounds.

Full flaps in the 160hp Warrior with CFI and me would climb, IIRC. Barn door flaps in a C150 with just 1 on board wouldn't climb?

What do you do if the flap motor fails down and you have a go-around? In hindsight, in the Warrior with the Johnson bar, I'm guessing they can't fail down. You click the release button and air pressure would put them up?

What do you do in a Cessna if you need to go around and that motor fails down? Is there a procedure? Land straight ahead?
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Fly it with full flaps.
 
Clip4 said:
I don’t know what happened in this accident, but a pilot radioing he doesn’t know what to do suggests inadequate pilot training may have been a contributor.
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And the fact that he crashed also suggests that.
 
Clip4 said:
CFIs, take this as a learning moment, this is why you should restrict your students to no touch and go.
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Wrong lesson. People have forgotten to retract the flaps after full stop landings, or even preflight inspections as was the case in the other accident I mentioned.

This is why we practice slow flight, go-arounds, and teach people about aerodynamic effects of flaps and the back side of the power curve. I would be interested to know if the student received adequate training on those areas. (And engine failures too since he apparently didn't know how to handle one.)
 
dmspilot said:
Wrong lesson. People have forgotten to retract the flaps after full stop landings, or even preflight inspections as was the case in the other accident I mentioned.

This is why we practice slow flight, go-arounds, and teach people about aerodynamic effects of flaps and the back side of the power curve. I would be interested to know if the student received adequate training on those areas. (And engine failures too since he apparently didn't know how to handle one.)
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I agree. I remember being a student on solo at LWM in a skipper. I did a touch and go and couldn't get out of ground effect. Took a few seconds but I realized my mistake, I didn't remove flaps. I pulled them out and climbed away.

As pilots we all want to be the superstar student who learns quickly with minimum hours. Or maybe expense is an issue and we pressure the CFI to frugal with flight time. The older I get the more I realize that is not a good mentality for learning. It's better to be more measured in learning so that basic lessons become second nature. One of the most unnatural things you need to do when slow and running out of options near the ground is resist the urge to pull the nose up. Pulling the nose up when behind the power curve and/or near stall can turn into a death sentence. Lots of slow flight helps drive this lesson home, especially if you do it for a bit, then pull into a stall. Another is ingraining that the rudder, not the ailerons, is the best, really the only tool you should use when a wing drops in a stall.

I think on the instructor side, assuring the student reacts correctly when under stress is a paramount. It's tough to do that with a student griping that they think it is taking too long.
 
I had the other issue with 150 flaps. I was out doing solo practice one day and as I'm on short final, the airplane starts speeding up. I couldn't figure it out but chopped the throttle and fortunately the runway was plenty long. After getting off the runway, I find the flaps fully retracted. I knew they had been full down (40 degrees on this plane). After playing around I figured out what happened.

The 150 flap is a paddle switch that you can push down (and hold) to lower flaps. You raise up on it to retract them and the switch will latch up so you don't have to hold it. On this plane if you pushed the switch down and then jerked your finger away real fast, it would spring back through center and get to the up/latch position. Apparently, I'd managed to do that on the last bit of flap extension on my approach.
 
Heart breaking. "I don't know what to do..." pretty much screams of a lack of effective training. Whether or not the instructor could've reasonably known that the student wasn't able to perform under pressure, I wouldn't want to speculate. It's one thing if the instructor failed to cover the material in much detail, but I can't imagine how hard it'll be if all the correct boxes were checked, yet the student, on the day, wasn't able to get it done.
 
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