You Guys Every Fly in Proper Smoke?

Tantalum

Final Approach
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San_Diego_Pilot
With all the fires out here and perpetual haze I was wondering how "smoke" flying is similar to, and different from regular IMC

Has anyone here been flying lately in the Bay Area?

This video below is otherworldy.. wow. I would assume that smoke could potentially cause some issues for turbine and piston engines.. but maybe not? What about interference with ILS/GPS..etc? Or is it basically just smelly clouds?
 
Once. We were on our way home when the Hayman fire in Colorado started. It was still VFR with about 4 miles visibility. Our Tower was very busy helping out solo students who, used to 100 mile visibilities, got caught in our practice area. I made a point of telling Tower I did not need an assist.
 
About this time of year we go IFR to quasi-IFR in smoke pretty often. It cleared out today, but this week has been 2-5 mile visibility blowing in and out. Horrible.
 
As a vfr pilot, I don't like smoke as it can change surprisingly quickly. The SCU and CZU fire combined are really messing with the air in the san jose area from a visibility (and air quality) standpoint. The coastal fog was one thing to deal with, now throw in some smoke. Gonna need to work on the IFR ticket.
 
This video below is otherworldy.. wow. I would assume that smoke could potentially cause some issues for turbine and piston engines.. but maybe not? What about interference with ILS/GPS..etc? Or is it basically just smelly clouds?
Piston engine will be better off since it has filtered air... at least until the filter clogs and it pulls air from inside the cowling.
 
Piston engine will be better off since it has filtered air... at least until the filter clogs and it pulls air from inside the cowling.
I remember reading something about this actually about commercial water bombers

I did, often, in Colorado.
Anything peculiar with it, or is it basically just smelly IMC??
 
In Alaska I flew through smoke a few times. Worse than IFR. Smoke is relentless.

I was trying to land a C-207 in Tok. We knew the smoke was coming and I was trying to get one last flight in. Well, about 5 miles from the airport the smoke enveloped the area. No breaks, just solid. Relentless. I could not see the ground. Using the GPS extended centerline function, I was able to make up an approach to a VFR runway.

About 3 mile final, someone came on the radio that they were taxying out at Tok for departure. I called back 3 mile final for 7. Then the other aircraft called departing runway 25. I called back stating I have no visibility and on short final for 7. The other plane reported that he had no visibility either and is lifting off from runway 25. I told them I am at 25 AGL, barely above the trees and less than a mile final. The other aircraft reported breaking out into the clear. I asked which way they were going. Oh, sorry, I departed 7 and heading east. ''You are a %^$%#$ing Idiot.!!'' is what everyone on frequency heard.

The darkness below me suddenly became lighter, so I figured I was over the runway. I figured correctly and landed, then someone on a 4 wheeler guided me into parking. I mean 10 feet in front of me and I could barely see their red taillights. At 11 feet the 4 wheeler would disappear completely.

As soon as I shut down, the smoke got in my eyes, which then involuntarily closed. I used a finger to force one open, but my eyes were also pouring out tears.

The town was put on an immediate mandatory evacuation. Since I lived in a small apartment in the hanger in the middle of the airport property, I stayed. I could see the fire coming up the valley, and was thinking I might need to dig a hole and bury myself. But later on in the evening the wind changed, and the rain came stopping the progress of the fire. When the wind changed, the smoke cleared out. The fire bombers were able to come in and do their job.
 
In Alaska I flew through smoke a few times. Worse than IFR. Smoke is relentless.

I was trying to land a C-207 in Tok. We knew the smoke was coming and I was trying to get one last flight in. Well, about 5 miles from the airport the smoke enveloped the area. No breaks, just solid. Relentless. I could not see the ground. Using the GPS extended centerline function, I was able to make up an approach to a VFR runway.

About 3 mile final, someone came on the radio that they were taxying out at Tok for departure. I called back 3 mile final for 7. Then the other aircraft called departing runway 25. I called back stating I have no visibility and on short final for 7. The other plane reported that he had no visibility either and is lifting off from runway 25. I told them I am at 25 AGL, barely above the trees and less than a mile final. The other aircraft reported breaking out into the clear. I asked which way they were going. Oh, sorry, I departed 7 and heading east. ''You are a %^$%#$ing Idiot.!!'' is what everyone on frequency heard.

The darkness below me suddenly became lighter, so I figured I was over the runway. I figured correctly and landed, then someone on a 4 wheeler guided me into parking. I mean 10 feet in front of me and I could barely see their red taillights. At 11 feet the 4 wheeler would disappear completely.

As soon as I shut down, the smoke got in my eyes, which then involuntarily closed. I used a finger to force one open, but my eyes were also pouring out tears.

The town was put on an immediate mandatory evacuation. Since I lived in a small apartment in the hanger in the middle of the airport property, I stayed. I could see the fire coming up the valley, and was thinking I might need to dig a hole and bury myself. But later on in the evening the wind changed, and the rain came stopping the progress of the fire. When the wind changed, the smoke cleared out. The fire bombers were able to come in and do their job.
Wild story
 
In Alaska I flew through smoke a few times. Worse than IFR. Smoke is relentless.

I was trying to land a C-207 in Tok. We knew the smoke was coming and I was trying to get one last flight in. Well, about 5 miles from the airport the smoke enveloped the area. No breaks, just solid. Relentless. I could not see the ground. Using the GPS extended centerline function, I was able to make up an approach to a VFR runway.

About 3 mile final, someone came on the radio that they were taxying out at Tok for departure. I called back 3 mile final for 7. Then the other aircraft called departing runway 25. I called back stating I have no visibility and on short final for 7. The other plane reported that he had no visibility either and is lifting off from runway 25. I told them I am at 25 AGL, barely above the trees and less than a mile final. The other aircraft reported breaking out into the clear. I asked which way they were going. Oh, sorry, I departed 7 and heading east. ''You are a %^$%#$ing Idiot.!!'' is what everyone on frequency heard.

The darkness below me suddenly became lighter, so I figured I was over the runway. I figured correctly and landed, then someone on a 4 wheeler guided me into parking. I mean 10 feet in front of me and I could barely see their red taillights. At 11 feet the 4 wheeler would disappear completely.

As soon as I shut down, the smoke got in my eyes, which then involuntarily closed. I used a finger to force one open, but my eyes were also pouring out tears.

The town was put on an immediate mandatory evacuation. Since I lived in a small apartment in the hanger in the middle of the airport property, I stayed. I could see the fire coming up the valley, and was thinking I might need to dig a hole and bury myself. But later on in the evening the wind changed, and the rain came stopping the progress of the fire. When the wind changed, the smoke cleared out. The fire bombers were able to come in and do their job.
You made up your own approach and then landed with 10 1/2 feet of visibility??? You AK peeps and your CATIIIc landing. :)
 
Not this time but last round of CA fires I flew through heavy smoke and it sucked...sucked to breathe and was dang near IMC conditions...had to descend to get below it to even see where I was going. Asking for a pop up would ahed been even worse at higher altitudes which was the MEA in that area.
 
I’ve flown in improper smoke.

LOL.

Seriously though, yeah. Up to a point it kinda just looks like most days in the Midwest and freaks those of us out used to 50+ miles of vis.

But it changes quicker than Midwest weather. Can get thick fast.
 
I flew my very first student solo cross country flight from the bay area to Colusa County airport, which is located at the very North end of the Central Valley in California.

I checked the NOTAMs and there may have been a notice about the potential for reduced visibility, but it did not mention that it was rice burn-off time in the valley!

I found the airport by following US 99 (There was no Interstate 5 back then) and the visibility was good at the airport, but the 30 or so miles before I got there was like flying in a dark brown tunnel.
 
I flew yesterday in ND. My destination was reporting 10SM SKC below 12,000. I opted for the only instrument approach available there (an RNAV with LPV minimums) and was unable to see the airpot until less than three miles from the runway even though I have been in there a hundred times. This was taken about 20 miles out at 6,500 MSL (~4,500 AGL). At 500 AGL near the airport visibility was definitely MVFR at best.

22215.jpeg
 
Almost killed myself twice in smoke. It's insidious in that the density can change instantaneously. It can trick you into thinking you can fly under it or get above it.

It gets into the cockpit, even with the vents closed. It starts messing with your breathing. And it affects your eyes.

It is definitely not like a cloud.
 
Lots of opportunities here lately! :-( I took these pictures a couple of years ago when I thought my flight may have acceptable visibility. The first pic was climbing out towards the mountains (and smoke). The second was what I saw before deciding to divert...

upload_2020-8-27_12-35-23.jpeg

upload_2020-8-27_12-35-43.jpeg
 
Lots of opportunities here lately! :-( I took these pictures a couple of years ago when I thought my flight may have acceptable visibility. The first pic was climbing out towards the mountains (and smoke). The second was what I saw before deciding to divert...

View attachment 89241

View attachment 89242
The first picture is not too bad, but the second one is certainly IMC! Where you IFR?

it seems based on this that there is not too much risk to the engine itself from the smoke
 
it seems based on this that there is not too much risk to the engine itself from the smoke

Smoke can actually be quite flammable. Given the proper ratio, you can even use it for fuel. Probably would not improve your performance in an aircraft a whole heck of a lot, but it has been used as a very inefficient fuel for ground-based internal combustion engines. Given the correct setup, you can run a pickup truck engine or a generator from the smoke of a wood-based fire.
 
The first picture is not too bad, but the second one is certainly IMC! Where you IFR?

it seems based on this that there is not too much risk to the engine itself from the smoke

Not quite IMC but this is where the mountains started and I wasn't going to risk IMC and/or the loss of options a lower altitude would provide. I don't think the engine cared much about the smoke, but then again, I didn't really get into it...
 
I can’t find the pictures, but a few years ago when the Okefenokee Swamp was on fire, we descended through the smoke in a PC-12. The smell was so noticeable that we had to explain to the passengers what was going on. After we landed, we saw that the leading edges were covered with soot.
 
Flew vfr over the central (Ca) valley last week. It was awful. F-. Do not recommend.
 
I used to see controlled burns all the time and always wondered what the turbulence would be like in smoke over a forest fire. I imagine it is rather bumpy based on different heats generating different updrafts, but maybe it normalizes after a few hundred feet? Can anyone comment on that aspect?
 
They used to burn off crop residue in my area (AL-MS=TN) and the smoke would mix with the haze. Not IFR but I spent more time than usual on the instruments and paid close attention to all the calls on the radio.
 
I used to see controlled burns all the time and always wondered what the turbulence would be like in smoke over a forest fire. I imagine it is rather bumpy based on different heats generating different updrafts, but maybe it normalizes after a few hundred feet? Can anyone comment on that aspect?
I only flew through a large rising smoke cloud once (probably stupidly). I didn't notice any increased turbulence that I remember, but this was over the mountains where it was already turbulent. The other times have been where smoke is simply there. Like today. Not much wind, it just settles. In that case it is not turbulent.
 
Leaving San Diego, I had to file IFR to depart KSEE due to fires and smoke. It was just like any other IMC, except, well, it was smoke. Enough haze, up high enough, is almost the same thing. Since I didn't care for tour of San Diego or LA, I canceled as soon as I got above the smoke and remained on bravo clearance until I was above that.
 
I think it is worse... it stinks and gets into the cockpit too
 
East side of the hills in Colorado is due for high winds today - should clear out a lot of the smoke and haze. Hope so, planning on flying tomorrow.
Last weekend (8/22-23) was intolerable in Denver area. Driving, the vis was about 3 miles in town. Had some winds and a few sprinkles yesterday which helped a bit. I even saw a patch of blue sky and the moon in the evening yesterday, for the first time in over a week.
 
I flew yesterday in ND. My destination was reporting 10SM SKC below 12,000. I opted for the only instrument approach available there (an RNAV with LPV minimums) and was unable to see the airpot until less than three miles from the runway even though I have been in there a hundred times. This was taken about 20 miles out at 6,500 MSL (~4,500 AGL). At 500 AGL near the airport visibility was definitely MVFR at best.

View attachment 89197
very similar experience 2 night ago in fargo area. i thought it was haze since it didnt smell like smoke. there were regular big irons asking for vectors to final where ATIS happily reported more than 10 miles vis. the only one that didnt seem to bother was the predator in the pattern :p
 
Leaving San Diego, I had to file IFR to depart KSEE due to fires and smoke. It was just like any other IMC, except, well, it was smoke. Enough haze, up high enough, is almost the same thing. Since I didn't care for tour of San Diego or LA, I canceled as soon as I got above the smoke and remained on bravo clearance until I was above that.
Was that last week? I from VFR SDM to GOO last week. Biggest mistake of my flying career yet.
 
Lots of opportunities here lately! :-( I took these pictures a couple of years ago when I thought my flight may have acceptable visibility. The first pic was climbing out towards the mountains (and smoke). The second was what I saw before deciding to divert...

View attachment 89242

That's about what my vis looked like after I descended below the smoke in the central valley. This was about as good as it got east of Fresno up along the Sierras.
 
East side of the hills in Colorado is due for high winds today - should clear out a lot of the smoke and haze. Hope so, planning on flying tomorrow.
Last weekend (8/22-23) was intolerable in Denver area. Driving, the vis was about 3 miles in town. Had some winds and a few sprinkles yesterday which helped a bit. I even saw a patch of blue sky and the moon in the evening yesterday, for the first time in over a week.

Even got an hour of rain out here. Cleaned things up nicely for the moment.

Didn’t look as wet to the west or near the fires on radar. Hopefully they got a little.
 
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