Yet again no Gastons for me, but...

[Ted]

Just listening to Newark at rush hour, it seems to be the biggest goat rodeo out there. Approach does a good job of pushing all the planes in and out. It sounds like Osh, only busier.

 

[astanley]

Yup. It's actually quite common. Does it kind of suck from a training standpoint...maybe, but it'll get me into the left seat a lot quicker than if I had to wait to have the time and seniority for the Q.

What is the time difference between "IOE/upgrade school" and "recurrent"?

Cheers,

-Andrew

 

[Teller1900]

Just listening to Newark at rush hour, it seems to be the biggest goat rodeo out there. Approach does a good job of pushing all the planes in and out. It sounds like Osh, only busier.

That's the real kicker, as great a job as they do at EWR, their acceptance rate seems to be much lower than LGA, which is something considering how much physically larger EWR is. And even during low traffic times their downwind usually runs 20-25 mi abeam the airport and their final is usually 15-20 mi long, which is special.

What is the time difference between "IOE/upgrade school" and "recurrent"?

Cheers,

-Andrew

Recurrent ground is 3 days, once a year. Recurrent PC (sim) is one day, about 6hrs in the box, twice a year (only required once a year for FOs, but we go twice). Initial/transition/upgrade/transition-upgrade (new hire/new type/new seat/new seat-new type) is usually 3 weeks of indoc and systems, then about 2 weeks in the sim (or however long it takes to do 40hrs of training; usually 10, 4hr sessions). IOE is 50 hrs of line flying for everybody, but with a few exceptions (only required after initial, upgrade, or transition, not a yearly thing).

So I'll probably actually hit the line around late August after a June class.

Is that what you were asking?

 

[astanley]

Recurrent ground is 3 days, once a year. Recurrent PC (sim) is one day, about 6hrs in the box, twice a year (only required once a year for FOs, but we go twice). Initial/transition/upgrade/transition-upgrade (new hire/new type/new seat/new seat-new type) is usually 3 weeks of indoc and systems, then about 2 weeks in the sim (or however long it takes to do 40hrs of training; usually 10, 4hr sessions). IOE is 50 hrs of line flying for everybody, but with a few exceptions (only required after initial, upgrade, or transition, not a yearly thing).

So I'll probably actually hit the line around late August after a June class.

Is that what you were asking?

Basically. I was trying to figure out the "change cost" for a seat promotion + equipment change. That premium is ~12 days class (15 - 3) and ~8 days sim. As a curiosity, if you were to get the new seat in the Q, would that change at all?

Cheers,

-Andrew

 

[Teller1900]

Basically. I was trying to figure out the "change cost" for a seat promotion + equipment change. That premium is ~12 days class (15 - 3) and ~8 days sim. As a curiosity, if you were to get the new seat in the Q, would that change at all?

Cheers,

-Andrew

No, as far as the company is concerned there is no cost or time difference between a straight upgrade vs a transition-upgrade. The systems instructor might have to do a little more work, but they have the same time allotments for ground, sim, and IOE.

 

[astanley]

No, as far as the company is concerned there is no cost or time difference between a straight upgrade vs a transition-upgrade. The systems instructor might have to do a little more work, but they have the same time allotments for ground, sim, and IOE.

Absolutely fascinating. Thanks Matt! I may chew your ear off at Wings

Cheers,

-Andrew

 

[Teller1900]

Absolutely fascinating. Thanks Matt! I may chew your ear off at Wings

Cheers,

-Andrew

Gee, talk about airplanes while eating BBQ and cheesesteaks...hmm...I wonder if I can be convinced? *cue my wife rolling her eyes*

 

[astanley]

Now I realize that the whole airline biz is seniority based, but wouldn't it make more sense to upgrade you on the Q400? You already know the plane, and they spent all of that money to train you???

Taking a look at Matt's responses, a seat upgrade costs the airline as much as a equipment change -- so the airline can promote "rapid advancement" by allowing a FO upgrade to a new equipment type when the opportunity is available. If there was a difference in time (which I'm surprised their isn't, but then again, I imagine that FAA training rules for 121's mandate that going from seat to seat takes just as much time as learning a new plane), then your suspicion would be more on the money.

Cheers,

-Andrew