Xpost pictures of Oskosh incident

Ugh that is HORRIBLE! It make me wonder on a related note what kind of liablility the organizers of Fly Ins have for "controlling" ( I use that term loosley) traffic. I mean I have the Wings Fly B Q, Ed has the 6Y9 fly in and Dianna has Gastons. And of course many of us have set up Breakfast series across the country.

I don't really forsee any problem if I just say hey we are meeting at KXYZ for lunch. Who ever flies there flies there but beyond that who knows I guess the more organized it is such as OSH and S-n-F the more the organizers gotta take precautions. I suppose however that this specific accident could have happened anywhere at any time.
 
AdamZ said:
Ugh that is HORRIBLE! It make me wonder on a related note what kind of liablility the organizers of Fly Ins have for "controlling" ( I use that term loosley) traffic. I mean I have the Wings Fly B Q, Ed has the 6Y9 fly in and Dianna has Gastons. And of course many of us have set up Breakfast series across the country.

I don't really forsee any problem if I just say hey we are meeting at KXYZ for lunch. Who ever flies there flies there but beyond that who knows I guess the more organized it is such as OSH and S-n-F the more the organizers gotta take precautions. I suppose however that this specific accident could have happened anywhere at any time.
Click to expand...
Whether you are really liable or not you will get sued.

EAA was successfully sued by Doctor Doctor for letting him plow his Corsair into the plane ahead of him.

http://www.aero-news.net/SpecialCon...ID=dedd940b-8f12-4ea7-8306-2a5ca23f40fa&cat=7

In this case EAA got 25% of the blame because of the actions of the volunteer air boss.

Let's hope that nobody would blame Diana. Gastons doesn't have an air boss. BUT we should keep in mind that nobody should be giving instructions of any kind to planes.
 
Last edited:
Adam, I suppose we are close to the day some smart feller decides fly-ins are attractive nuisances. We'll need to carry yet more paper with us when we fly: a waiver of liability and subrogation naming everywhere we takeoff, overfly, and land.
 
mikea said:
Whether you are really liable or not you will get sued.

EAA was successfully sued by Doctor Doctor for letting him plow his Corsair into the plane ahead of him.

http://www.aero-news.net/SpecialContent.cfm?ContentBlockID=dedd940b-8f12-4ea7-8306-2a5ca23f40fa&cat=7

In this case EAA got 50% of the blame because of the actions of the air boss.

Let's hope that nobody would blame Diana. Gastons doesn't have an air boss. BUT we should keep in mind that nobody should be giving instructions of any kind to planes.
Click to expand...

Actually EAA got 25% liability and at Gastons there is some one on the Freq, giving advisorys and directing traffic.

Fact of the matter is I really don't know what happened here Did the Avenger just taxi forward with abandon? Did someone from OSH give directions for the Avenger to move up was there a ground boss who cleared him who knows but it sucks for all involved. I bet the Avenger pilot is devestated as well.
 
AdamZ said:
Fact of the matter is I really don't know what happened here Did the Avenger just taxi forward with abandon? Did someone from OSH give directions for the Avenger to move up was there a ground boss who cleared him who knows but it sucks for all involved. I bet the Avenger pilot is devestated as well.
Click to expand...

From what I understand they were all waiting in line to depart and the Avenger just straight up did not have a visual on the RV. There was some talk that he was not s-turning during his taxi but who knows. The thing is-- They may have been taxiing for 45 minutes or more already. I can see how one would get a little more relaxed.

Notice the angle of the cockpit in the Avenger vs. the size of the RV. You'd have to be WAY the hell back to see that RV even with S turns.
 
I seem to recall reading that he *was* doing S turns but the RV jumped in front.
 
Ugh - bad situation all around. :( No room to maneuver, marshallers rushed to get planes out...

Maybe in future events, taildragers with no taxi visibility ahead will be assigned a wing-walker or something to avoid this happening again.
 
From the looks of the tail of the RV, I'd say they had a couple of seconds of inkling about what was happening. Those pictures are just awful.

I know many on here and elsewhere disagree with me, but I find a trip into fly-ins as big as Oshkosh to be beyond my personal safety minimums. Too many planes, too much push in and out... Someday if I go, I'll drive from some other airport.

Jim G
 
I would definitely want to do the Oshkosh fly-in with someone who has done it a few times before I would consider doing it myself.
 
Frank Browne said:
I would definitely want to do the Oshkosh fly-in with someone who has done it a few times before I would consider doing it myself.
Click to expand...

I'd dare guess that both aircraft pilots had flown each of those planes to other airshows before, and probably to Oshkosh. I've heard and also broadcast on the radio myself on ground FX, when the prospect of visibility between taxiing aircraft or any other issue comes up.

Other taxiing planes will be monitoring ground FX so, as to not tread on the authoritative toes of ground control, I'll phrase my transmission as a question to them i.e.: OSH ground, does the Corsair behind us, in his blind spot, have us in contact? Any other taxiing aircraft will hear it immediately if they're attentive and if not, then I'd sure take remedial/evasive action, especially if ground control doesn't come back immediately.
 
AdamZ said:
Ugh that is HORRIBLE! It make me wonder on a related note what kind of liablility the organizers of Fly Ins have for "controlling" ( I use that term loosley) traffic. I mean I have the Wings Fly B Q, Ed has the 6Y9 fly in and Dianna has Gastons. And of course many of us have set up Breakfast series across the country.

I don't really forsee any problem if I just say hey we are meeting at KXYZ for lunch. Who ever flies there flies there but beyond that who knows I guess the more organized it is such as OSH and S-n-F the more the organizers gotta take precautions. I suppose however that this specific accident could have happened anywhere at any time.
Click to expand...
But we were giving taxi instructions to pilots that wanted to participate in the contests. I suppose if there had been an incident with one of the taxiing airplanes that a jury could have found the person who gave the instructions partially liable.
 
grattonja said:
From the looks of the tail of the RV, I'd say they had a couple of seconds of inkling about what was happening.
Click to expand...

And especially worse when realizing there's really no way out. Firewalling could've caused a second incident. :/
 
That some one at Gaston's is giving advisories only, not directing traffic, as is done at any non-towered airport with unicom. All activity is at pilot's discretion. Comments regarding potential traffic conflicts are opinion only, not instructive in nature. Participants should keep that in mind.

As I understand it, the Avenger pilot at OSH only observed a high wing taildragger ahead of it on the taxiway prior to the accident. When that high wing taildragger turned off the taxiway prior to the runway the Avenger pilot believed the space immediately ahead of him was clear.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=CHI06FA206A&rpt=p

AdamZ said:
Actually EAA got 25% liability and at Gastons there is some one on the Freq, giving advisorys and directing traffic.

Fact of the matter is I really don't know what happened here Did the Avenger just taxi forward with abandon? Did someone from OSH give directions for the Avenger to move up was there a ground boss who cleared him who knows but it sucks for all involved. I bet the Avenger pilot is devestated as well.
Click to expand...
 
That some one at Gaston's is giving advisories only, not directing traffic, as is done at any non-towered airport with unicom. All activity is at pilot's discretion. Comments regarding potential traffic conflicts are opinion only, not instructive in nature. Participants should keep that in mind.

As I understand it, the Avenger pilot at OSH only observed a high wing taildragger ahead of it on the taxiway prior to the accident. When that high wing taildragger turned off the taxiway prior to the runway the Avenger pilot believed the space immediately ahead of him was clear.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=CHI06FA206A&rpt=p

AdamZ said:
Actually EAA got 25% liability and at Gastons there is some one on the Freq, giving advisorys and directing traffic.

Fact of the matter is I really don't know what happened here Did the Avenger just taxi forward with abandon? Did someone from OSH give directions for the Avenger to move up was there a ground boss who cleared him who knows but it sucks for all involved. I bet the Avenger pilot is devestated as well.
Click to expand...
 
NTSB report said:
The pilot of a Lancair airplane reported that he followed the Avenger while taxiing on Papa taxiway
and he observed the Avenger taxi into the RV-6. The Lancair pilot reported that his airplane was
parked in the homebuilt aircraft parking area near the Lancair airplane exhibit area located just
south of the P-1 taxiway. He reported that about six aircraft marshallers helped push his Lancair
into a position near the Papa taxiway so that he could start his engine. He started his engine and
was ready to taxi onto the Papa taxiway. One of the aircraft marshallers motioned to him that he
was cleared to taxi onto Papa taxiway, since there was adequate separation from the next airplane.
Instead, the Lancair pilot waited because the Avenger was approaching and he did not want to be in
front of the Avenger while taxiing. After the Avenger passed, the Lancair pilot taxied onto Papa
taxiway. He followed the Avenger at a distance so that he could remain clear of the Avenger's
propeller blast.
Click to expand...

I bet that Lancair pilot is thanking his lucky stars... Or at least thanking his experience, knowledge, and judgement. Wow.

I also didn't realize that the RV that got hit was a side-by-side model. That pilot is VERY lucky to be alive! :hairraise:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I bet that Lancair pilot is thanking his lucky stars... Or at least thanking his experience, knowledge, and judgement. Wow.

I also didn't realize that the RV that got hit was a side-by-side model. That pilot is VERY lucky to be alive! :hairraise:
Click to expand...

Good points. If it were me in the littler airplanes, I probably be thinking, "Hey an Avenger pilot's gonna have lots of experience and expertise, so no problem, here I go!"
 
All the survivors of this accident will undoubtedly be having nightmares for the rest of their lives. My heart goes out to them and the kin of the RV passenger.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top