XC Rules

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by bmacadoozle, Feb 3, 2021.

  1. bmacadoozle

    bmacadoozle Pre-Flight

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    Plane I'm flying in has a GPS, does anything stop someone from just putting in a direct to their destination?

    Edit: Not planning on doing this just wondering if people have before
     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2021
  2. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    The simple answer? Nope.
     
  3. Skip Miller

    Skip Miller Final Approach

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    What does your CFI say about this?
     
  4. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    what's the catch on this question?
     
  5. ja_user

    ja_user Pattern Altitude

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    Do what your CFI tells you. personally I let people use all available information, but would reject the XC plan if this was the extent of the planning that was done :)

    Said another way, there are a variety of reasons why solely relying on this may be a very poor choice.
     
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  6. jetedrick

    jetedrick Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I mean, technically, nothing stops you from flying into the wrong airspace or landing at the wrong airport either. (HOWEVER), it is probably not the best idea except under an exceptional circumstance..your best bet is to talk to your CFI and give him / her an example. You should also not be dependent on the magenta line to get you to where you want to go...
     
  7. PaulS

    PaulS Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The hill or mountain you forgot to look for? That would be about it. Make sure you look.
     
  8. Clip4

    Clip4 Final Approach

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    A database that doesn’t include you destination such as a private airport or international airport.
     
  9. bmacadoozle

    bmacadoozle Pre-Flight

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    I agree with you there and won't be doing this when I get to my XC'S, but I feel if you get lost then it would be a great way to figure out where your going after ppl is achieved
     
  10. WannFly

    WannFly Final Approach

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    Wait there is another way of going to the destination?


    OP: do whatever your CFI says
     
  11. ja_user

    ja_user Pattern Altitude

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    Getting to where you are going is largely not the problem. Running out of fuel, busting TFRs, and various other mishaps are more of a concern.
     
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  12. eman1200

    eman1200 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    didn't know you were training but that doesn't change my answer much.

    the GTN 650/750 has TWO buttons, one of them is the Direct To button. so I'm thinking that gets used kinda now and then. I wouldn't know though, even though I have one I use a paper sectional, slide rule, stop watch, E6B, paper navlog, compass, water towers, etc...
     
  13. Ravioli

    Ravioli Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Wow! There's buttons other than the D2 on GTN's? Maybe I should listen to EVERYONE on PoA and dump my GNS430W... when I'm ready for another feature :eek:
     
  14. Shawn

    Shawn En-Route

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    If you are not following a magenta line are you really even flying?
     
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  15. Kritchlow

    Kritchlow Final Approach

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    Cannot believe the question.

    Just too many variables.
     
  16. PaulS

    PaulS Touchdown! Greaser!

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    I do it all the time. Usally in foreflight first to check airspace and obstacles.
     
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  17. A1Topgun

    A1Topgun Line Up and Wait

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    Me too.
     
  18. Deelee

    Deelee Cleared for Takeoff

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    PaulS and A1 are so correct that this is absolutely done all the time. For VFR. And if you are lucky to live in an area where ATC will give it, you can try filing direct IFR, too. Probably get it if there isn't much in the way or airspace or traffic, R to navigate around, etc.

    But... I am going to make some assumptions... and you know what they say about assumptions....

    Since you are posting in the pilot training forum AND since the title of your post is XC Rules, I am going to presume you mean are there any rules for using GPS to fly direct destination during your a.) solo XC or b.) long XC. And I am going to further assume, based on the fact that you are asking such a question, that this relates to your private pilot training.

    Based on these presumptions, the answer is:

    Ask your CFI if he wants you using GPS to navigate during the cross-countries or should you be using some other means (VORs, pilotage/ded reckoning).s
     
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  19. av8orDave

    av8orDave Filing Flight Plan

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    All of the above posts make the point clear that there are no "rules" prohibiting you from using your GPS for direct navigation. Since this is in the pilot training forum, just some additional thoughts:
    1) What types of airspace would a direct route have you crossing / flying through?
    2) Are there long stretches over difficult terrain that you'd cross as a result of the direct route, i.e. mountains, wilderness, or water?
    3) What is the weather doing across the route? Would you be better off with multiple intermediate checkpoints/waypoints serving as opportunities to check weather and give you an "out" should things not go as planned?

    While you can certainly navigate direct to your destination, I'd say that this would be a pretty unusual practice. When flying a cross country of any distance, most will usually have intermediate fuel stops, may avoid certain types of airspace (class B, MOAs, TFRs, etc), may avoid prolonged stretches over water or mountainous terrain, may avoid weather along the way, and so on...
     
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  20. 1000RR

    1000RR Pre-Flight

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    I will be (as long as the weather is onboard) doing my 1st XC solo this weekend. My CFI and I will fly the route Saturday together, then I'll fly it Sunday. Then next week he wants me to pick a destination and plan an additional Solo to fly next week. If by "rule" you mean FAR related, the answer is no, there's no rule on GPS relative to your XC Solo. But as others have said, ask your CFI. That's what I have done. My Solo XC's will be with all available information/resources which will include my eyeballs and looking outside the cockpit, the plane's GPS, my Foreflight with ADS-B receiver, and my nav log for the flight (as it pertains to navigation). I'm sure he'll expect me to record/fill in some times to my waypoints and calculate some ETEs/ETAs/Fuel Burn so I'll be doing that at least to some degree to provide my own projections. Part of the challenge around here (Florida) is there is a lot of "Airspace" to be aware of both in your planning and flying. I'm really looking forward to it and hopeful the weather plays nice this weekend. Good luck with yours... and... ask your CFI, that's what they're there for.
     
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  21. Racerx

    Racerx Line Up and Wait

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    Curious, if you're color deficient does it still appear magenta? Is there a way to change it? Never looked as I've never cared much. Just curious now
     
  22. 1000RR

    1000RR Pre-Flight

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    In Foreflight - nope...
     
  23. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    My wife's instructor had a rule for his student pilots: no GPS. This worked out well for me because one of his other students bought the (then new) Apollo 920 GPS. I told him to let me borrow it to go to Oshkosh since Buzz wasn't going to let him use it and he agreed. The 172 my wife was training in had an old clunky VOR-DME RNAV. I showed her how to take the coordinates (the old brown Airguides used to list them for each airport) and set them into the RNAV. She did that once with the instructor on board and that led to a new "no RNAV for students" rule.
     
  24. RyanB

    RyanB Administrator Management Council Member PoA Supporter

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    Then it’ll just be the gray line or the black line or whatever color you see it as. Different color, same meaning.
     
  25. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    It's not pure magenta in foreflight or most things I've seen. I suspect you can make it out. And it will be different than the surroundings anyhow.
     
  26. Racerx

    Racerx Line Up and Wait

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    My dad and sister are color deficient. Neither have a problem with it but I could see how it might be if other colors blend in? I lucked out somehow
     
  27. wayne

    wayne Pattern Altitude

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    If you are working on your private pilot license/certificate I would recommend not using the GPS. They will want you to do pilotage on the checkride. Best to get in as much practice with it as you can so you are more comfortable and knowledgeable with it. That will help on the checkride. If you are using the GPS you won't be as comfortable with pilotage and that could cause an issue with passing that part of the flying portion.
     
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  28. chemgeek

    chemgeek Pattern Altitude

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    In real life? All the time GPS direct when able. For PPL training? Learn how to read a map and navigate by ground reference. Comes in handy when the electrical system crumps or GPS is out of service. Plus learning how to use a map will help you better estimate distances and spot destination or en-route airports more easily.
     
  29. woodchucker

    woodchucker Pattern Altitude

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    Never. I plan my routes to overfly roads and airports to the best extent possible. Also, by not paying attention to intermediate legs you may not notice a headwind stronger than planned for which may put you at risk for an unplanned lack of go-gas event.
     
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  30. BarryCooper

    BarryCooper Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I teach the initial XC using only pilotage and dead reckoning. On subsequent rides I gradually introduce the GPS but he/she still has to flight plan manually.
     
  31. Deelee

    Deelee Cleared for Takeoff

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    <<<< this learner was taught the exact same way. My opinion - was a great way to learn. And fun, too. Something really satisfying about flying over your waypoints within seconds of your planned flight.

    Of course I haven't completed a manual flight log since passing the private checkride... but I think I could still do one no problem if I had to. Maybe I'll work one up for the next flight to see how accurate I am...
     
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  32. av8orDave

    av8orDave Filing Flight Plan

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    I thought that I'd be able to do a manual flight plan piece of cake after not doing one (at least in any meaningful way) since my PPL... my wife is getting her PPL right now, and I tried to help her one night... took a few tries to brush the dust off.
     
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  33. write-stuff

    write-stuff En-Route

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    I agree that more info is needed to provide a good answer to the question. Are you a student pilot, trying to polish your cross-country skills? What is the purpose of the flight?

    To answer the question in a literal fashion, yes, you may use Direct To for your flight, but be aware of any intervening airspaces thought could impact your routing.
     
  34. PaulS

    PaulS Touchdown! Greaser!

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    When this guy was a learner, I had a paper chart, a pencil, a navigation plotter, a piece of paper and an e6b. The airplane had a compass, a dg that precessed like crazy, a VOR and an ADF. If I got lost, I had a a radio.
     
  35. Matthew

    Matthew Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Other than an inop GPS...nope.

    But if you are a student doing an XC, why (this is where you discuss with your CFI)? Later on it's a nice feature, but as a student it can sometimes become a crutch. Look out the window, compare what's on the ground with what's on your charts. That's where the real fun is. You could enter it in for reference, it's nice to be able to check your own nav numbers against it to see if you are getting matching ground speed, time, and direction numbers.
     
  36. bflynn

    bflynn Final Approach

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    Once you're a pilot, a lot of people do this for VFR flights. Map it out beforehand with something like foreflight, take off and then hit direct to destination. The only time you wouldn't is when there's something undesirable between you and the destination, mainly terrain or restricted airspace.

    Ok, I'll actually take the step to enter my source and destination into a flight plan because that takes all of a minute to do. But once up in the air and flying away from the airport, I'll hit direct again and update based on not being exactly over the airport.
     
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  37. Salty

    Salty Final Approach

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    Yes, No, Maybe, It depends.

    This is kind of like asking if you can walk out your front door blindfolded and walk 100 paces without getting hurt. Is there a street out front? Traffic on it at the time? Steps or hills to fall down? Swimming pools or ponds to drown in? Is there a zombie apocalypse occurring at the time?