X-wind method: crab to a kick out, or slip?

Which method do you use when landing in a crosswind?

  • Crab final approach, then kick out to a slip

    Votes: 81 55.1%

  • Slip the final approach

    Votes: 57 38.8%

  • Something else

    Votes: 9 6.1%
  • Total voters
    147
MarkZ

MarkZ

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I've heard pluses on both sides, just curious which method is more popular when landing.
 
RotorAndWing said:
Depends on the airplane.
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I agree; I tend to favor a slip in most of the trainers I've flown, but it isn't a viable option on all airplanes and not great on a multi-engine aircraft with limited ground clearance!
 
I hit the "something else" because I don't know where I fit in the mix. I crab on final but I transition to a slip a little further out than I'd characterize as "kicking out."
 
I'll go with Ron's answer. I prefer to land in the slip all nice and stabilized far enough out it's just holding a line and landing otherwise normally, but on one wheel, But in some airplanes you wouldn't want the wing down (much). Depends on what you're flying. Whatever it takes.
 
All of the above.

I'm always a crab, chasing the elusive slip but occasionally finding something else.

:)
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Sometimes I crab. Sometimes I slip. Sometimes I land in a crab.
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Haha! Yeah I'm guilty of that last one more often than not. I've been having better luck recently with landing a slip.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk
 
RotorAndWing said:
Depends on the airplane.
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And my mood. Dip the wing, crab til float, rudder all the way. Mixing it up gives you experience doing them all.

OP, basically the right answer is "Whatever it takes." ;)
 
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Never thought about it much, I just do what it takes to keep the airplane lined up with the center line.
 
Crab all the way to the flare, simultaneously bank into the wind while establishing centerline alignment with opposite rudder. Good energy management, loss of slight vertical component of lift from bank, and increased drag due to slip does a good job of settling aircraft onto runway and reducing possibility of ballooning.
 
Whatever it takes.....
I am too new to be particular..just happy those nice folks at the club would let me rent their shinny air flying machine thingie:goofy::goofy:
 
Whatever works and whatever you like to do. But IMO, there's no practical reason to slip all the way down final in any airplane for x-wind considerations alone. That is a way for instructors to give students extended practice at countering the x-wind, and to set up their approach such that workload is reduced in the final stages of the landing. But just because you may have been taught that as a student pilot doesn't mean you need to do that for the rest of your flying career.

A more professional way to do it would be to crab down final, and then make the transition to the slip during the roundout. It's more comfortable for your passengers since you're in normal coordinated flight for as long as possible. Either way, you're likely going to be touching down in a slip unless you're flying an Ercoupe. How late you choose to transition from a crab to a slip is purely a matter of pilot preference, skill, and comfort level. Some choose to start the slip at 700' AGL, others choose to start it at 7" AGL...and everywhere in between. This worn out slip vs. crab debate is what you might call a false dichotomy. The actual touchdown is made using the same technique in most light airplanes.
 
I have only ever mastered the side slip to lose altitude. Those I enjoy.
I have never been able to do the wing down method.

I crab until flare and that has worked very well for me. My dad does the forward slip. Every X Wind landing with us both in the plane ends in an argument about whose doing it wrong :)
 
I chose "other" -- crab initially, then transition to a slip at about 100-200 feet AGL (exception noted below). I definitely want to know before I start the flare whether or not the crosswind is within the capability of my aircraft and myself, so I try to find that out before crossing the threshold by seeing if I can hold the centerline in a slip while still having some remaining control authority in reserve. Thus, "Ron's answer" seems to be the same for both Rons. :wink2:

And unless I'm flying an Ercoupe or something with castering main gear, I do try hard not to land in a crab -- tires are too expensive.
 
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Well, you have to ask yourself what the difference is.

In a Cessna, you're going to land on one wheel if you want to keep going straight down the runway in a crosswind (especially if the runway is slippery). There is not enough mass in a 172 or 182 to land on both wheels at once without developing some side load. The difference between the two methods is when you transition from a crab to a slip.

So, (almost) all of us do both. When is a matter of preference. For a newer pilot it may make sense to transition earlier to make sure there is no side load. It does NOT make sense to do that at the base to final turn, even for a student pilot. At what point does that become a "slip" method instead of a "crab" method?

Personally, I'll do it as late as possible if there is a lot of gustiness. Otherwise, it's just preference.
 
I tend to favor the crab until over the runway and then slip method. That's how I teach my students.

The only time I'll do a slip all the way down final is if there is a strong 10+ kts x/w. The Maule has a bad weather vane tendency in strong winds.
 
ARFlyer said:
The only time I'll do a slip all the way down final is if there is a strong 10+ kts x/w. The Maule has a bad weather vane tendency in strong winds.
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Huh???
 
I may have scored it wrong, I put slip the final appr. Like most others, I start my slip a bit early, so that I'm established in a stable angle and power setting. I don't keep the slip from the base turn or anything, but I usually get it set up before I'm over the fence, so that things are all lined up well before I change throttle, or pitch.

We were taking off from Dumas a few weeks back and I got to teach a CFI something. It was about 20-25kts coming 60deg off the nose, but the runway is very wide. So I lined up for take off way to the far left side of the runway, and aimed an angle to the right into the wind. He said he had never seen that before, and I explained that it gave the flight controls more time to get a 'bite' in the air as I accelerate and I can straighten it out later if needed. He seemed to think this was not a good procedure and I asked him what he did on a landing in a crosswind, did he use a slip on final to get things lined up right? and he said he did, so I asked - what's wrong with setting up right for the conditions? It's my runway from full left to full right.
 
RoscoeT said:
Huh???
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The large vertical tail and boxed sides give it a larger weather vane tendency. It can be easily brought down in a high crosswind if you know it's quirks. However, throw in a left crosswind over the trees at our airport and a new student, it's game over.

I can crab the Piper or our twin with ease in a high wind. However, the Maule likes to be slipped or you'll get pushed off course.
 
I use the Chuck Norris method. Alter the earth's rotation to align the runway with the wind.
 
ARFlyer said:
I tend to favor the crab until over the runway and then slip method. That's how I teach my students.

The only time I'll do a slip all the way down final is if there is a strong 10+ kts x/w. The Maule has a bad weather vane tendency in strong winds.
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How do you "weathervane" while airborne?
 
timwinters said:
All of the above.



I'm always a crab, chasing the elusive slip but occasionally finding something else.



:)
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Well played, sir! Well played.

Apparently the other posters are taking their flying just a little too seriously. :)
 
MAKG1 said:
How do you "weathervane" while airborne?
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We'll ya don't that's crabbing. :D

I'm using the term to describe when the plane turns into the wind when you stop using enough rudder or slip to keep it straight.
 
slip is harder to coordinate overall but results in a nicer arrival. . . .

once you get to King Air and above in size you ain't slipping it in any longer . . .
 
docmirror said:
It was about 20-25kts coming 60deg off the nose, but the runway is very wide. So I lined up for take off way to the far left side of the runway, and aimed an angle to the right into the wind. He said he had never seen that before...It's my runway from full left to full right.
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I always take off at an angle to runway if the crosswind is strong, and will use that technique on landing as well. It can take a huge bite out of the crosswind component.

I was taught that way, and continued to teach it to my students.
 
ARFlyer said:
I'm using the term to describe when the plane turns into the wind when you stop using enough rudder or slip to keep it straight.
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Airplanes don't turn into the wind in flight. They don't know if and what direction the wind is blowing. All airplanes will realign themselves with the relative wind when you remove rudder deflection. X-wind has nothing do with that. A Maule is no different. Airplanes can weathervane into the wind when they are on the ground, not inflight.
 
RoscoeT said:
Airplanes don't turn into the wind in flight. They don't know if and what direction the wind is blowing. All airplanes will realign themselves with the relative wind when you remove rudder deflection. X-wind has nothing do with that. A Maule is no different. Airplanes can weathervane into the wind when they are on the ground, not inflight.
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Even at slow speeds? I took off Saturday from 13 with 15G21 out of 200.
There was a distinct yaw into the wind at wheels up.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Even at slow speeds? I took off Saturday from 13 with 15G21 out of 200.
There was a distinct yaw into the wind at wheels up.
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I would think not.

The instant the plane leaves the ground, the entire plane from nose to tail will simply move laterally with the wind.

Not to say a lateral gust might not hit the tail, but absent that there should be no mechanism to turn the plane into the wind without the ground to pivot against.
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Even at slow speeds? I took off Saturday from 13 with 15G21 out of 200.
There was a distinct yaw into the wind at wheels up.
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What you were feeling was either a gust (which can yaw an airplane for a moment from any direction), or the remnant of the "weathervaning" that occured as you rotated the airplane and before the wheels left the ground. If you do not control yaw as you rotate, you will leave the ground with a slight yaw. But once in flight, airspeed makes no difference. You can fly around all day at minimum controllable airspeed in a strong wind, and the airplane will never "weathervane" into the wind. A gust causing a momentary yaw oscillation is not "weathervaning".
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Even at slow speeds? I took off Saturday from 13 with 15G21 out of 200.
There was a distinct yaw into the wind at wheels up.
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More than likely, your upwind wheel left the ground last. The airplane will readily weathervane when one wheel is on the ground. Or even both mains.

Crosswind take-off technique is to point the yoke into the wind. Relaxing that after takeoff will naturally crab the aircraft.

Wheels up? I thought your airplane was fixed gear.
 
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