Want To Buy WTB: 4-place fixed gear trainer

[schmookeeg]

Wife got her third class after a 9 month ... process. I hope CAMI gets properly DOGE'ed, but I think that's a common sentiment so no need to add to it here.

Until then -- I would love to buy something amusing to train her in. I'm not overly fussy, but the local $200/hr rentals are... really poor. My brand loyalties sorta go Beech > Cessna > Piper but there are no good mice on the market right now, skyhawks are all priced like the sidewalls are made from cocaine bricks, and pipers.. well those are still out there, it's just my last choice. (sorry PA28 fans)

I am probably overlooking several interesting candidates and happy to learn about them. We have some really neat flying clubs in the area, but the ones at Oakland are basic B and I'm not over-fond. (Still, if I can't dredge something cool out of the market, I'll probably just send her to Alameda Aero Club)

Interested in anything you might be looking to offload, or know of someone who is. I'm a value shopper generally and let's set a ceiling at about $100K which doesn't go very far right now. This will be coming to Oakland so bonuses given for ADS-B and a GPS of some variety already sorted out, but I can certainly tolerate "project avionics" situations via, say, the Dynon STC. Prefer something in annual unless it's a mouse, then I can accept a broad range of price-reducing situations since I know those pretty well.

Extra consideration given for larger-than-normal engines (STC'ed or otherwise), decent useful loads (with 800# probably the minimum) -- I really miss my super III and regret selling it. Extra extra consideration given for a Super Mouse

Thanks in advance for any potential birds/flyers/nonsense you may wish to share and strike up a convo about

- Mike

 

[flyingpreacher]

 

[Rcmutz]

I would look toward a Grumman Traveler or perhaps a Cheetah. Most good Tigers are over $100K. For a new pilot, I’d stay away from the Grumman two seaters unless an AA1B or C.

Grumman Owners and Pilots Association - Home

grummanpilots.org

 

[GeorgeC]

I've been seeing 170As/170Bs in the 80k ballpark on barnstormers... just sayin'.

 

[schmookeeg]

I've been seeing 170As/170Bs in the 80k ballpark on barnstormers... just sayin'.

I'm not even endorsed. I thought the insurance landscape for taildraggers was difficult? I'd love a 170 in the stable... after some dual for myself and a shedload of practice, I might even try teaching in one.

 

[Nico_490]

What about a Tobago TB-10?

 

[GeorgeC]

I'm not even endorsed. I thought the insurance landscape for taildraggers was difficult? I'd love a 170 in the stable... after some dual for myself and a shedload of practice, I might even try teaching in one.

Insurance for my 140 is ~1 AMU/yr, but I'm not a CFI; maybe @texasclouds has better info?

 

[pfarber]

I've been seeing 170As/170Bs in the 80k ballpark on barnstormers... just sayin'.

unless you want that retro style that's burning a lot of gas for very little speed.

The Cessna tax is real.

 

[Florida Flyer]

Thinking of putting up our 172 for sale, however definitely not in your price range

 

[texasclouds]

Insurance for my 140 is ~1 AMU/yr, but I'm not a CFI; maybe @texasclouds has better info?

1.3 amu for my 170b

 

[GeorgeC]

1.3 amu for my 170b

I thought you had an A model?

 

[texasclouds]

I thought you had an A model?

No, ‘54 170B with the fowler flaps

 

[TCABM]

No, ‘54 170B with the fowler flaps

What you need sir, is a 195.

 

[texasclouds]

What you need sir, is a 195.

Oh snap! What is that amazing electric seggs machine?? Please tell me more!

 

[TCABM]

Oh snap! What is that amazing electric seggs machine?? Please tell me more!

[Scene opens with a sleek Cessna 195 soaring through a crisp, clear sky. The hum of its engine cuts through the silence as it glides effortlessly over rolling hills and vast open fields. Cut to a glamorous business man, impeccably dressed, smiling confidently at the controls.]

Narrator’s Voice, smooth and assured:
“Some men settle for the ordinary. You were made for more.”

[Cut to a sophisticated woman standing by a private airstrip, a fur coat draped over her shoulders. She watches as the Cessna 195 touches down gracefully.]

Narrator:
“Introducing the Cessna 195—where precision meets power, and elegance never takes a backseat. A plane designed for those who demand the sky, and take what they want from it.”

[Close-up shots of the polished cockpit, the gleaming wings, and the soft leather seats.]

Narrator:
“With a 300-horsepower engine, the 195 gets you where you need to be—quickly. And when you arrive, you’ll do it with the confidence of someone who’s always one step ahead.”

[Cut to the businessman stepping out of the plane, confidently striding across the tarmac to his waiting car. A moment of eye contact with a beautiful woman, then a knowing smile.]

Narrator:
“The Cessna 195. Because why settle for the ground, when you can own the air?”

[Text on screen: “Cessna 195. For the man who knows the difference.”]

Narrator, finishing with a tone of quiet assurance:
“Go ahead. Make your mark in the sky.”

[The plane ascends gracefully into the sunset, the city skyline in the distance.]

[Fade to black.]

⸻

Tagline:
Cessna 195. The sky is yours.

 

[texasclouds]

Two questions: Two point landing? How high are the heels on that filly??

 

[Timbeck2]

I’m still trying to figure out what mouse is, other than of course a furry rodent or computer accessory

 

[SFDukie]

I’m still trying to figure out what mouse is, other than of course a furry rodent or computer accessory

I think it’s a reference to a beech musketeer. (After the mickey mouse club- musketeers)

 

[Timbeck2]

I think it’s a reference to a beech musketeer. (After the mickey mouse club- musketeers)

Thank you

 

[catmandu]

I’m still trying to figure out what mouse is, other than of course a furry rodent or computer accessory

It is apparently something an aviation mechanic likes to milk, and apply the resulting liquid to aviation motor parts. According to ChatCatmanduGPT, anyway.

 

[Freefalling]

I've got a Grumman Cheetah. Currently off the market, BUT I plan on listing in April. It is a fantastic trainer, and bonus, modern avionics. Lynx 9000 for ADSB in/out. PS Engineering bluetooth audio panel. Garmin GI-275 GPS/Comm with a Gi275 CDI/HSI. JPI 830 engine monitor. She needs paint, but that's it. I've flown it across the US and back and throughout the caribbean. I don't want to sell her but I bought a bigger toy and can't justify having two, as much as I'd like to.

 

[schmookeeg]

I've got a Grumman Cheetah. Currently off the market, BUT I plan on listing in April. It is a fantastic trainer, and bonus, modern avionics. Lynx 9000 for ADSB in/out. PS Engineering bluetooth audio panel. Garmin GI-275 GPS/Comm with a Gi275 CDI/HSI. JPI 830 engine monitor. She needs paint, but that's it. I've flown it across the US and back and throughout the caribbean. I don't want to sell her but I bought a bigger toy and can't justify having two, as much as I'd like to.

We should chat. I don't know the first thing about Grummans

 

[Freefalling]

I'll PM you.

 

[Roller]

M5 or better Maule, Stinson 108, C170

 

[Wrench978]

I've got a Grumman Cheetah. Currently off the market, BUT I plan on listing in April. It is a fantastic trainer, and bonus, modern avionics. Lynx 9000 for ADSB in/out. PS Engineering bluetooth audio panel. Garmin GI-275 GPS/Comm with a Gi275 CDI/HSI. JPI 830 engine monitor. She needs paint, but that's it. I've flown it across the US and back and throughout the caribbean. I don't want to sell her but I bought a bigger toy and can't justify having two, as much as I'd like to.

I think I flew that plane… she flies nice! If not as fast as my bonanza…

Also it’s a gnc355 gps/comm. A sweet unit.

How’s the commander treating you?

 

[Freefalling]

I think I flew that plane… she flies nice! If not as fast as my bonanza…

Also it’s a gnc355 gps/comm. A sweet unit.

How’s the commander treating you?

Ha! Indeed you have. Miss you guys. See you next month I hope.

Loving the commander. In high winds i actually prefer the cheetah. The commander seems to have way way less rudder authority than the cheetah. But i can’t complain about the comfort

 

[flyingcheesehead]

What's your budget? The DA40 is a really nice airplane, suitable for training but a lot more useful than most trainers at 140+ knots on its 180hp IO-360. Flies like a dream, the view is incredible, and the operating costs are very reasonable.

 

[4RNB]

Why 4 seats for a trainer?
Budget?

 

[Half Fast]

My brand loyalties sorta go Beech > Cessna > Piper but there are no good mice on the market right now,

Extra extra consideration given for a Super Mouse

Are you a member of the Beech Aero Club? You might try posting on the BAC forum. If anyone has a lead on a decent Musketeer coming available, you'll learn about it there.

 

[schmookeeg]

Why 4 seats for a trainer?
Budget?

Would like to keep it 100k or less but that's slipping upward the more frogs I look at.

4 seats because 2 seat trainers have zero utility outside of the training mission

 

[TCABM]

Would like to keep it 100k or less but that's slipping upward the more frogs I look at.

4 seats because 2 seat trainers have zero utility outside of the training mission

Have you looked at Commander 112s?

 

[schmookeeg]

Have you looked at Commander 112s?

I hadn't -- retract insurance rates seem to be "triple score" lately. Lotsa value there though, and I'd rather a Rockwell over, say, a Sierra with its weird nosegear articulation if i went this path.

 

[TCABM]

I hadn't -- retract insurance rates seem to be "triple score" lately. Lotsa value there though, and I'd rather a Rockwell over, say, a Sierra with its weird nosegear articulation if i went this path.

You’re gonna pay what you pay; OpEx vs CapEx is just a column on the spreadsheet.

 

[schmookeeg]

You’re gonna pay what you pay; OpEx vs CapEx is just a column on the spreadsheet.

Fair -- I may swing up to a 182. 150K for simple trainers is bananas, so if I'm up in that CapEx range I may as well get something useful and beloved by the market, instead of something strange or insurance-hated.

 

[Half Fast]

If cost is an issue, why not buy with a partner? You pay half, your wife pays half. Simple.

 

[schmookeeg]

If cost is an issue, why not buy with a partner? You pay half, your wife pays half. Simple.

Yeah I've actually advocated that a lot lately... and even tried it myself recently.

I am no longer an advocate of partnerships It's a two-tequila story.

Ugh, edit: just wooshed on your funny, but my wife IS paying half That's the primary limiter on the CapEx.

 

[Half Fast]

4 seats because 2 seat trainers have zero utility outside of the training mission

Two seats are plenty. What do you need besides a pilot and a weapons officer?

 

[TCABM]

Would like to keep it 100k or less but that's slipping upward the more frogs I look at.

4 seats because 2 seat trainers have zero utility outside of the training mission

A 172 doesn’t have much utility when filling all four seats.

 

[schmookeeg]

Two seats are plenty. What do you need besides a pilot and a weapons officer?

payload adequate for more than 1 FAA human, fuel, and a toothbrush for starters, followed by "speeds requiring 3 digits to express"

 

[TCABM]

… "speeds requiring 3 digits to express"

Again, a challenge for the 172.