Written test all that is req'd for Ground Instructor Cert?

Discussion in 'Pilot Training' started by Sebastian Thomas, May 7, 2019.

  1. Sebastian Thomas

    Sebastian Thomas Filing Flight Plan

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    I should know the answer to this...but I think it is obtainable via written test.
    However my CFI cert is lapsed.
     
  2. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    Yep. 61.213(b) does not state whether the CFI has to be current or not to bypass the FOI test. I would imagine that an expired CFI does not count as "holding" a CFI certificate. Worst case scenario is you have to take the FOI again. Along with the appropriate ground instructor test for the rating desired — BGI or AGI and/or IGI tests.

    The expiration issue is a good example of why a person might want to get a GI cert before or while a CFI. GI certs don't expire.
     
  3. Sebastian Thomas

    Sebastian Thomas Filing Flight Plan

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    Thanks for your reply!
     
  4. Hildy

    Hildy Filing Flight Plan

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    I recently got my AGI and IGI. There are no experience requirements and no endorsement required. You just show up at the testing center and take the tests, then take your results to the FSDO. You DO need an endorsement once you get to the FSDO though. I did the Gleim test prep and printed them off from there.
    Getting the certificate also requires that you pass the FOI test. I'm not sure whether the FOI you passed as a CFI will still be valid. I believe it lasts two years, but if your CFI is expired, I guess your FOI is probably out of date. Even if it is still valid, you will have to find some way to get a new, embossed copy of your FOI test results to turn in at the FSDO when you go in for your Ground Instructor certificate. Yes, that sounds ridiculous, since your CFI cert proves that you already passed it, but I was warned by the guy at my FSDO that he was keeping my official FOI results and that I would need to obtain a new "original" copy when I come back later for a CFI cert.
     
  5. Dean V

    Dean V Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Except the testing center policy established by the FAA prohibits issuing more than 1 original test result. So good luck getting an original. You hold an instructor certificate, you do not need the test result.

    e) Pass a knowledge test on the areas listed in § 61.185(a)(1) of this part, unless the applicant:

    (1) Holds a flight instructor certificate or ground instructor certificate issued under this part;
     
  6. Cici

    Cici Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I can't find anything in the FAR's that say an endorsement is needed. 61.213 is where I am looking. Does anyone have a source?
     
  7. Hildy

    Hildy Filing Flight Plan

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    https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/14/61.217
    That link is for the recency requirements for a ground instructor. It's a little bit different from other certificates and ratings in that you're not automatically current when you get the certificate. If you haven't given ground or flight instruction in the last 12 months, and you haven't taken a flight instructor refresher course, then you need the endorsement before you can give ground instruction.

    Now, I'm totally open to the argument that the reg should be interpreted as requiring the endorsement before giving training, but shows no such requirement for an endorsement before issuance of the certificate itself. That's how I interpreted it too. However, the guy at the Springfield, IL FSDO required the endorsement before he would issue the certificate. It was on his FAA checklist of how to issue a Ground Instructor Certificate, which he read to me over the phone when I argued with him.

    Actually, he said it was no problem if I didn't have the endorsement, because he could just test my knowledge and do the endorsement himself. Ha! Like I wanted to do an unanticipated oral exam with a fed on one day's notice!

    Fortunately, I had used Gleim to do my AGI studies, so I could print the endorsement from their website. Also, I had used Gleim for my Instrument Rating written test prep, and it's the same program as the IGI test prep, so I was able to print off that endorsement as well.

    Your mileage may vary. Maybe your FSDO guy will have a different interpretation.
     
  8. mondtster

    mondtster En-Route

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    I'm not going to bother looking to cite the reg but you need to be found to be proficient at teaching prior to exercising the privileges of a ground instructor certificate. Taking the tests and submitting them at the FSDO is not sufficient.
     
  9. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    You could at least "bother" reading the thread. He was responding to a statement that you need the endorsement when you go to the FSDO.
     
    Last edited: May 9, 2019
  10. dmspilot

    dmspilot En-Route

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    The same inspector that said you needed two copies of the FOI test, one for the CFI and one for the GI?

    He's an idiot.
     
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  11. JScarry

    JScarry Pre-takeoff checklist

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    There are no endorsements needed for the ground instructor. What the FSDO is referring to is that after you fill out the IACRA form someone needs to finalize it. For checkrides your instructor signs it as the referring instructor and then the DPE signs it when you pass. For the ground instructor certificate the person handling the paperwork at the FSDO does it. There is no oral exam at the FSDO. You take in your original Knowledge Tests and walk out with the temporary certificate. You can be the world’s best or the world’s worst instructor and it does not matter for getting your certificate.
     
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  12. Dean V

    Dean V Pre-takeoff checklist

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    I believe he was referring to (d) An endorsement from an authorized instructor certifying that the person has demonstrated knowledge in the subject areas prescribed under § 61.213(a)(3) and (a)(4), as appropriate.

    Which is a recent experience requirement and isn’t required to obtain the certificate.
     
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  13. Cici

    Cici Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Just got back from the FSDO. I had my tests (FOI, AGI, IGI) and an ID. Walked out with a temp cert 15 minutes later. No mention of an endorsement to obtain the cert.
     
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  14. murphey

    murphey Final Approach PoA Supporter

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    Well....if you have verifiable teaching experience, the FOI isn't required. Quote from the Gleim website:
    "You may also skip the FOI test if you hold a teacher's certificate issued by a state, county, city, or municipality that authorizes you to teach at a 7th grade educational level or higher or are employed as a teacher at an accredited college or university."
     
  15. flyingron

    flyingron Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yeah, the did that so that the test center wouldn't be filled with the contents of real educator's stomachs after they wretch reading what the FAA thinks educational theory is.
     
  16. MauleSkinner

    MauleSkinner Final Approach

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    I’m just glad none of the real educators are willing to share what’s actually wrong with what the FAA thinks educational theory is.
     
  17. Doc Holliday

    Doc Holliday Pre-takeoff checklist

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    So which FAA certificates that involve teaching have you earned?
     
  18. apr911

    apr911 Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Dont know that it necessarily qualifies as an “original” but the FAA can reissue certified test results if the report is lost or destroyed... its a bit if a pain to do though and is much easier if you can produce the original.

    What I found interesting is that the FSDO kept the test result sheet. Didnt think that was necessary; I still have all my written results for PPL/IRA/CPL/FOI/FIA/FII/IGI/AGI though I went to DPE’s and not the FSDO (I was in Florida at the time and the FSDOs there no longer validate GI ratings, something I commented/complained about on the board before... thankfully my CFI DPE issued agreed to sign the IGI/AGI IACRA as part of the same fee)