Writing without a kneeboard, what do you use?

jsstevens said:
Nice! I'll have to see about those.
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The Mini-Z is also a half-size kneeboard. zuluworks > standard mini-z A friedn of mine uses one and it looks like the perfect compromise of size and function.

John, other commented on this: seems a bit unusual to have a problem with a kneeboard when your knees don't get in the way. What is your set-up? One of those thin kneeboards that do little more than hold a pad and pen or one of those with 10 pockets for charts, pens, extra pads, lunch... ;)

My solution is still in flux. I've used my EFB's scratchpad and a separate app. Works OK but I am slowly coming to the conclusion that pen and paper is superior for jotting notes, especially without looking. I have multiple solutions at this point, most of which have been mentioned. A mini 3X5: notebook (kind of small); a slightly larger 5X7" or 8.5X5.5 notebook (I like the size); and the steno pad or other 6X9 item (which are about the same size as a kneeboard (and which I've used on a kneeboard for decades before the EFB came along). But I think that, especially for IFR, any of those could use a stable platform and the basic kneeboard seems to fit the bill, although I'd really like to try out that mini!
 
midlifeflyer said:
The Mini-Z is also a half-size kneeboard. zuluworks > standard mini-z A friedn of mine uses one and it looks like the perfect compromise of size and function.

John, other commented on this: seems a bit unusual to have a problem with a kneeboard when your knees don't get in the way. What is your set-up? One of those thin kneeboards that do little more than hold a pad and pen or one of those with 10 pockets for charts, pens, extra pads, lunch... ;)

My solution is still in flux. I've used my EFB's scratchpad and a separate app. Works OK but I am slowly coming to the conclusion that pen and paper is superior for jotting notes, especially without looking. I have multiple solutions at this point, most of which have been mentioned. A mini 3X5: notebook (kind of small); a slightly larger 5X7" or 8.5X5.5 notebook (I like the size); and the steno pad or other 6X9 item (which are about the same size as a kneeboard (and which I've used on a kneeboard for decades before the EFB came along). But I think that, especially for IFR, any of those could use a stable platform and the basic kneeboard seems to fit the bill, although I'd really like to try out that mini!
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It's a thin kneeboard. I also have a soft trifold. Neither really works. Maybe I sit to close to the panel? But I sit where I can comfortably reach the panel and have proper authority on the rudders. And I set the seat at it's lowest height.

John
 
coma24 said:
plus saying the freq out loud helps solidify it (for me at least).
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I have CRS... C-an't R-emember S-ht... sometimes I forget the frequency or squawk right after I repeat it back... So I write it down as I'm repeating it... Then hand the clipboard to my girlfriend or (if solo) lay it on the Pass-seat... I don't keep anything on my lap that I am not using right that moment...
 
jsstevens said:
It's a thin kneeboard. I also have a soft trifold. Neither really works. Maybe I sit to close to the panel? But I sit where I can comfortably reach the panel and have proper authority on the rudders. And I set the seat at it's lowest height.

John
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Well, if you are going to be "off-kneeboard" the best I can think of is a notepad with a solid backing - even if it's a pad that you use with the kneeboard clipboard but without the strap and other accouterments. The big thing is a solid surface for writing.
 
jsstevens said:
Using the passenger seat is what I do when I'm flying alone (not IFR yet). Sometimes I'll ask the passenger to hold the iPad as well. But with the flight instructor in the passenger seat it doesn't work as well. Also, VFR I don't have nearly as much to keep track of...
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Instructor on board puts a whole nuther spin on it...grease pencil on the side window gives you a peek now and then!:D:D
 
I used the iPro Aviator M for my iPad mini since I often fly Diamonds with a center stick. http://www.marvgolden.com/ipro-aviator-m-ipad-kneeboard-for-ipad-mini-1-3.html

They are slim, metal and durable. Unless you have really skinny legs it won't be wider than your thigh and shouldn't interfere with the stick. My only gripe is that the flap is hinged on the left so if you wear it on your right leg it opens towards your lap.
 
I have a small spiral notebook, maybe 4x6 or so. It's what I do my clearances, etc... on. I've never been able to tolerate kneeboards, they get in the way.
 
Why write the squawk code down?

I enter it into the transponder, then read it back to the controller off of what I just entered.

Frequencies the same way. Tune the radio, read the frequency back to confirm.

Usually the only thing I write down are the winds on an initial call to AWOS so that I remember 15 minutes later.
 
I bought a box of small notepads from probably WalMart like 10 years ago. I'm still working on that same box. Although these days I typically only write things down if I'm in unfamiliar territory. I don't much care for bulky kneeboards or trying to write junk on an iPad.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Why write the squawk code down?

I enter it into the transponder, then read it back to the controller off of what I just entered.

Frequencies the same way. Tune the radio, read the frequency back to confirm.

Usually the only thing I write down are the winds on an initial call to AWOS so that I remember 15 minutes later.
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At this point in my training, I'm finding I don't remember all the digits intake to get it into either the transponder or radio. It's probably a saturation issue and will get better.

John
 
JoseCuervo said:
Why write the squawk code down?

I enter it into the transponder, then read it back to the controller off of what I just entered.

Frequencies the same way. Tune the radio, read the frequency back to confirm.

Usually the only thing I write down are the winds on an initial call to AWOS so that I remember 15 minutes later.
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Youth is wasted on the young people...:(
 
I dont use a knee pad, but I carry:
1. Stickies for reminders stuck on window
2. 3" x 5" spiral binder for things I want to keep (I dont tear the pages out of that one)
3. 1/2 size "legal" pad which is best for writing long clearances and stuff you get from ATC because it has a hard back.
4. An assortment of pens and pencils.

Then you have to have enroute charts, VFR charts and approach plates. Or Foreflight with all that in it on an IPAD.

I like to clear all the terrain off my IFR GPS and fly the line like one of the gauges.
Then have terrain and such on my VFR GPS for reference and backup.
 
JoseCuervo said:
Why write the squawk code down?

I enter it into the transponder, then read it back to the controller off of what I just entered.

Frequencies the same way. Tune the radio, read the frequency back to confirm.

Usually the only thing I write down are the winds on an initial call to AWOS so that I remember 15 minutes later.
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I do that when given a squawk code or frequency in the air, or when the instruction is not part of an IFR clearance. Even VFR clearances on the ground, I usually don't write them down. But with a full IFR clearance, you never know how complicated it's going to get, so I always have the pad ready and almost always write it all down. (If copying on the ground, that's definitely always; in the air, in a familiar area where I can expect what I file 99% of the time, sometimes I just use the gray matter.)
 
I flew on Cape Air (Cessna 402) recently, two legs. I know that this airline has spent a lot of time and energy developing single-pilot techniques to operate efficiently and safely with half the crew and an extra seat for passengers (it was open on both my legs and they declined my offer to sit up front). On one leg, the plane had dual digital transponders and I noticed the pilot using the backup transponder as an altitude bug, punching in assigned altitudes. There are many ways to skin the remembering ATC instructions cat.
 
I don't do much IFR on the GA side, but at work I just clip a scrap piece of paper (roughly 4x6 sized) to the yoke. It's not elegant, but works just fine.
 
iamtheari said:
I flew on Cape Air (Cessna 402) recently, two legs. I know that this airline has spent a lot of time and energy developing single-pilot techniques to operate efficiently and safely with half the crew and an extra seat for passengers (it was open on both my legs and they declined my offer to sit up front). On one leg, the plane had dual digital transponders and I noticed the pilot using the backup transponder as an altitude bug, punching in assigned altitudes. There are many ways to skin the remembering ATC instructions cat.
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So how would he punch that in if ATC gave him an altitude of 9000? ;)
 
I bought a ridiculously overpriced metal kneeboard case for my I-pad that has a cover with a clip board for a pad of paper on the front. Writing clearances with pen and paper is much easier to me than trying to enter it into the scratch pad function of Foreflight. The metal kneeboard case works well for me, and keeps my cockpit nice and tidy. The front cover/clip board part is not as long as the I-pad itself, so it doesn't hit the yoke when you flip it open or closed.
 
iamtheari said:
it was open on both my legs and they declined my offer to sit up front
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Interesting. I've been on Cape Air a few times, and they never seemed to have an issue with a passenger riding in the front. Or did you give them the impression that you'd be a little *too* involved while up there? ;)
 
azure said:
So how would he punch that in if ATC gave him an altitude of 9000? ;)
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Cape Air operates the 402 in Boston and in Montana. In Boston there's no reason to go that high and in Montana there's no reason to go that low. We cruised at 10,000 and that was for an eastern Montana flight (KSDY-KBIL).

kayoh190 said:
Interesting. I've been on Cape Air a few times, and they never seemed to have an issue with a passenger riding in the front. Or did you give them the impression that you'd be a little *too* involved while up there? ;)
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I was probably not assertive enough. The ground crew on the first flight asked the pilot if he wanted a "co-pilot" and he said no, so I didn't bother asking. I have heard that you can even plug in your headset and listen in if you are seated up front, so I know if there is a reason to have someone in that seat they are evidently really decent about it. It just wasn't necessary on either of the flights I was on.
 
iamtheari said:
I was probably not assertive enough. The ground crew on the first flight asked the pilot if he wanted a "co-pilot" and he said no, so I didn't bother asking. I have heard that you can even plug in your headset and listen in if you are seated up front, so I know if there is a reason to have someone in that seat they are evidently really decent about it. It just wasn't necessary on either of the flights I was on.
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Ah, I see. It could just be a pilot personality thing. Every airline has their 'special' ones. Heh!
 
At least one fairly well known podcasting pilot who didn't want a knee board floating around the cockpit during aerobatics, simply writes on his knees with a pen, when wearing shorts.
 
So I'm the only one that just breathes on the side window and writes stuff in the fog?
 
iamtheari said:
Cape Air operates the 402 in Boston and in Montana.
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And in Cape Girardeau, Mo. Funny, most people here think the airline is named after us! :)

iamtheari said:
I was probably not assertive enough.
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I've flown Cape Air out of here thrice (to STL) and I rode right seat each time. Of course, every time I was the ONLY passenger on board, that might have helped.
 
iamtheari said:
Cape Air operates the 402 in Boston and in Montana. In Boston there's no reason to go that high and in Montana there's no reason to go that low. We cruised at 10,000 and that was for an eastern Montana flight (KSDY-KBIL).
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I thought Cape Air operated throughout New England? I could swear I saw one of their planes land at KMPV once. Maybe I'm confusing them with another outfit. But if they ever overfly the Whites in NH, they'll be assigned higher than 8000... ATC sent me up to 10k once coming back from KLEW.
 
azure said:
I thought Cape Air operated throughout New England? I could swear I saw one of their planes land at KMPV once. Maybe I'm confusing them with another outfit. But if they ever overfly the Whites in NH, they'll be assigned higher than 8000... ATC sent me up to 10k once coming back from KLEW.
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I don't know how far their territory extends from their Cape Cod headquarters. I was mostly talking about the use of the backup transponder as an altitude reminder. Someone asked what they punch in when assigned 9000 and I was talking about how unlikely that altitude is. But that being said, I've clearly never been to NH and apparently now I need to go check out the mountains.
 
midlifeflyer said:
As they grow their reach expands. They even do flights in the Caribbean.
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Actually, it's more along the lines of what EAS subsidy routes they can get. They take in excess of $44 Million dollars of your tax dollars a year to serve places like MWA, UIN, OWA, AUG, BHB, RKD, TBN, GGW, GDV, HVR, OLF, LEB, CGI, SLK, OBS, MSS, MAZ, and RUT.
 
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I keep a pad of these 4x6 post-it notes on me. They're perfect for clearances, notes, etc. I'll stick the note to the panel, backside of ipad, etc., as necessary.

617209_p
 
flyingron said:
Actually, it's more along the lines of what EAS subsidy routes they can get.
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Still need the equipment and the pilots don't you? But I didn't realize the EAS program included foreign countries. Interesting. I would have thought it was strictly a domestic program.
 
I hate to break it to you, but Puerto Rico is a commonwealth of the United States. It's not a foreign country. They have EAS there. The only non US stops they make is Bimini and a few British VI (yes not EAS).
 
iamtheari said:
I don't know how far their territory extends from their Cape Cod headquarters. I was mostly talking about the use of the backup transponder as an altitude reminder. Someone asked what they punch in when assigned 9000 and I was talking about how unlikely that altitude is. But that being said, I've clearly never been to NH and apparently now I need to go check out the mountains.
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That was me... actually I wasn't so much asking as trying to point out that punching in altitudes on a transponder isn't the best technique since beacon codes are octal and altitudes are decimal. Trying for sly humor... I guess I fell short. :(
 
azure said:
That was me... actually I wasn't so much asking as trying to point out that punching in altitudes on a transponder isn't the best technique since beacon codes are octal and altitudes are decimal. Trying for sly humor... I guess I fell short. :(
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Sorry that I didn't notice it was your joke when I followed up before waking up this morning. Your joke was good; it was my attempt at a comeback punchline that fell flat. And I did try several different variations before posting it, too, including "7500 IDENT."

But anyhow, unless you get 8000 or 9000 as an altitude, this memory aid works everywhere below class A airspace, assuming that you have two digital transponders but no altitude preselect.
 
You could always write on the instrument panel with a pencil like a student did in one of the DA-40s at the flight school I worked in. They used it for their engine out procedure tho. I'm assuming they were on a stage check or checkride
 
I have found that a folded up piece of office paper works great. You can also slip it into a breast pocket or underneath the magnetic compass.
 
I use the NAV 2 head for heading, altitudes and counting landings.

I've also used the ADF freq for FRA and approach mins.
 
I use the palm of my opposite hand. Easy to clean, always there
 
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