Worth adding ADS-B in/out now?

stevenhmiller

stevenhmiller

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Steve's Archer
I'm own my own Archer II and am currently in training for my PPL. I know about the mandate for ADS-B out in 2020. I'm wondering if it's worth installing a Garmin GDL 88 into the plane now, or not bothering. I have a Garmin GNS 480, Garmin MX20 installed now. I figure in a few years I may sell the plane to upgrade to a Cherokee 6/300, so I can carry the family and friends for trips. Will the GDL 88 add significant value to the plane, in a few years as we get closer to the mandate? I know I can take advantage of the free weather and the traffic if it's installed. But, the cost of $5000 to add it is what bothers me.

Thoughts?
 
I'd say it's worth it if you'll use the ADS-B goodies over the next few years. If not, save your pennies and upgrade the next one.

By the way, if your current or future aircraft will fly in Class A, you'll need something with 1090-ES, which the GDL-88 does not get you.
 
it may make your plane easier to sell, but you know you'll lose money from an investment standpoint. get a stratus and foreflight (or something comparable) to take advantage of weather. that way you can transfer it to any plane you decide to fly in the future. I wouldn't take the plunge until you know which plane will be yours for a while.
 
stevenhmiller said:
I'm own my own Archer II and am currently in training for my PPL. I know about the mandate for ADS-B out in 2020. I'm wondering if it's worth installing a Garmin GDL 88 into the plane now, or not bothering. I have a Garmin GNS 480, Garmin MX20 installed now. I figure in a few years I may sell the plane to upgrade to a Cherokee 6/300, so I can carry the family and friends for trips. Will the GDL 88 add significant value to the plane, in a few years as we get closer to the mandate? I know I can take advantage of the free weather and the traffic if it's installed. But, the cost of $5000 to add it is what bothers me.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

Hold off for now. The GDL88 does not support the GNS480 or the MX20. Support for these devices is expected sometime in 2015. The NavWorx 600 does support both the GNS480 and the MX20 today. Assuming you don't have an Aspen, it should work just fine and can be installed relatively inexpensively.
 
If you think you are or may sell the plane, hold off for reasons others cited.
 
John Collins said:
Hold off for now. The GDL88 does not support the GNS480 or the MX20. Support for these devices is expected sometime in 2015. The NavWorx 600 does support both the GNS480 and the MX20 today. Assuming you don't have an Aspen, it should work just fine and can be installed relatively inexpensively.
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John -- do you think the GDL-88 or 84 will ever be supported on the Aspen units?
 
Marauder said:
John -- do you think the GDL-88 or 84 will ever be supported on the Aspen units?
Click to expand...

Maybe not directly, but Garmin has indicated they will add support for the GMX200/MX20 using the legacy interfaces. The legacy interfaces are also known as the Capstone interface. Aspen and other vendors have stated they are implementing their products using the Capstone interfaces for ADS-B because they are in the public domain as open interfaces that were paid for by the US government for the Capstone ADS-B project in Alaska. So you can draw your own conclusion.
 
John Collins said:
Maybe not directly, but Garmin has indicated they will add support for the GMX200/MX20 using the legacy interfaces. The legacy interfaces are also known as the Capstone interface. Aspen and other vendors have stated they are implementing their products using the Capstone interfaces for ADS-B because they are in the public domain as open interfaces that were paid for by the US government for the Capstone ADS-B project in Alaska. So you can draw your own conclusion.
Click to expand...


That is encouraging to read. I want to see this stuff work seamless between my Aspen and GTN.
 
Marauder said:
John -- do you think the GDL-88 or 84 will ever be supported on the Aspen units?
Click to expand...

Aspen has come out with their own ADSB solution available some time this year,very pricey. I'd wait more and more solutions are becoming available and the price is coming down.
 
frfly172 said:
Aspen has come out with their own ADSB solution available some time this year,very pricey. I'd wait more and more solutions are becoming available and the price is coming down.
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I agree. The company that bridges the Aspen - Garmin world will get my business. I get the "proprietary" thing, but not for the prices they are asking for a single source solution.
 
John Collins said:
Hold off for now. The GDL88 does not support the GNS480 or the MX20. Support for these devices is expected sometime in 2015. The NavWorx 600 does support both the GNS480 and the MX20 today. Assuming you don't have an Aspen, it should work just fine and can be installed relatively inexpensively.
Click to expand...

I was told the GDL 88 supports the GNS 480 and MX20. I'll have to look into that. As for the Aspen, I have the Aspen Evolution 1000.
 
I have an Archer II and have given this some thought. The mandate isn't until 2020, there are 5 more years for better and cheaper products to come out.

I'm going to wait a few more years before buying anything.
 
cowman said:
I have an Archer II and have given this some thought. The mandate isn't until 2020, there are 5 more years for better and cheaper products to come out.

I'm going to wait a few more years before buying anything.
Click to expand...

Sounds like a good plan. I think I'll follow that route, unless an ADS-B in/out unit falls into my lap for cheap. :D
 
Also, another point I don't see brought up very often. ADS-B is only going to be required in class A, B, C, and E airspace above 10,000 feet but not below 2,500 feet.

I have a ppl and a little over 100 hours. I have yet to do any flying where I'd need to have ADS-B. Unless they count flying under the floor of class B airspace which I've done twice I think.

I don't think as many VFR piston guys need it at all.
 
cowman said:
I have an Archer II and have given this some thought. The mandate isn't until 2020, there are 5 more years for better and cheaper products to come out.

I'm going to wait a few more years before buying anything.
Click to expand...

That's my plan too. I'm not particularly well connected in the industry, but I do have one Oshkosh Beer Buddy whose shop sells and installs a LOT of avionics. Because of his shop's volume, has good relationships with many of the players in the industry. I ask him once a year "Is it time, and if so, what do I buy?".

We had that annual conversation today. His answer was "Wait. There are lower cost/better value options on the way."
 
cowman said:
Also, another point I don't see brought up very often. ADS-B is only going to be required in class A, B, C, and E airspace above 10,000 feet but not below 2,500 feet.

I have a ppl and a little over 100 hours. I have yet to do any flying where I'd need to have ADS-B. Unless they count flying under the floor of class B airspace which I've done twice I think.

I don't think as many VFR piston guys need it at all.
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I just realized it doesn't include class D airspace. There probably will be quite a few pilots that aren't impacted too much with the mandate. Depending on where you live and what type of flying you do, meeting the mandate may not be necessary for some.
 
I'm Alaska based. The current ABS-B plan doesn't include Alaska even though Alaska was the proving ground for it. I use ADS-B In for the data advantages that if offers. I'm not very concerned about Out at the moment. I may decide to add the Out capability but I fully expect the equipment choices to evolve and the prices to come down in the coming years ahead of the 2020 implementation date. What I buy now will be a dinosaur by then. If you see a benefit in buying now? Go for it. For myself I'll wait.
 
The only benefit I see in buying now is getting traffic to display on an iPad.....
 
^^^^

If you've decided that you want live TIS-B traffic on your display of choice, and you want it now, then now is the time to get ADS-B.

If your only concern is meeting the mandate to stay legal, buying now would be extremely foolish and overpriced. The only reason to buy now if you're only concern is meeting the mandate is if your existing transponder crapped out and you need a new one. Might as well get a 1090-ES model if you plan to buy a brand new one anyway.
 
stevenhmiller said:
I'm own my own Archer II and am currently in training for my PPL. I know about the mandate for ADS-B out in 2020. I'm wondering if it's worth installing a Garmin GDL 88 into the plane now, or not bothering. I have a Garmin GNS 480, Garmin MX20 installed now. I figure in a few years I may sell the plane to upgrade to a Cherokee 6/300, so I can carry the family and friends for trips. Will the GDL 88 add significant value to the plane, in a few years as we get closer to the mandate? I know I can take advantage of the free weather and the traffic if it's installed. But, the cost of $5000 to add it is what bothers me.

Thoughts?
Click to expand...

I have a 480 and an MX20 in the panel on my Aztec and, after much research and soul searching, purchase a Freeflight Ranger 978XVR. This unit comes with an internal GPS, all the antennas required, and a WiFi module. They are on special until the end of the year for $3995. I bought mine at a discount from that price. My shop estimates about 8 hours to install. This unit is "Capstone compatible" which means that it can display traffic and all the weather the MX20 and GMX200 are capable of displaying.

The 480 is currently NOT an approved ABS-B location source. Garmin has promised a software upgrade by the end of the year for over 2 years, so the internal GPS is necessary.

Jim Hiatt
 
cowman said:
I have an Archer II and have given this some thought. The mandate isn't until 2020, there are 5 more years for better and cheaper products to come out.

I'm going to wait a few more years before buying anything.
Click to expand...
Given the numbers, finding a shop and the time to do the install will become problematic the closer we get to 2020. I have done the upgrade to my bonanza and even though I will not have the 172 (hopefully by 2020), I will install it within the 2015 calendar year. I used to think I could see an avoid; however, the ADS-B Out display on my iPads has convinced me that I need it more in the 172 where I am not usually in contact with ATC on my training flights. I do not see more than half of the aircraft displayed on the iPad.
 
Getonit said:
I can't validate any of the accuracy of this, but seems accurate based on what I know, for what that is worth.

http://www.angelflightmidatlantic.org/wp-content/uploads/ADS-B_presentation.pdf
Click to expand...

There's a money quote in there for Freeflight:

FreeFlight has entered into an agreement with ForeFlight to
provide wireless for that application.
– No date or other specifics offered
Click to expand...

This rumor was a factor in our club's decision to take advantage of Freeflight's sale on their system.

Freeflight's system includes a wifi access point and they have their own iPad application.

Both Freeflight and Foreflight are central Texas companies, and we've heard of this agreement via credible sources, but this is the first time I've seen anything in writing.

We expect to install the Freeflight device in late January 2015, I'll let ya'll know how it goes.
 
I think $5000 for the GDL-88 is pretty optimistic. The installation will likely run you another $1500 or so with the antenna installation.

If support for your 480 is not guaranteed, you might consider something like the new GDL-84 that is coming out in a few months. It has an internal WAAS GPS available, so you don't have to worry about if Garmin will release a 480 update. The built-in Flightstream adapter will also connect to an iPad to display traffic and weather on Garmin Pilot app.
 
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