Worst/best drivers by state

Discussion in 'Hangar Talk' started by Mtns2Skies, Aug 30, 2019.

  1. Kansas Flyer

    Kansas Flyer Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Drivers here have a problem with merging too, just a different variety. Apparently nobody knows the meaning of that triangular shaped sign that is on every on ramp, they just expect the traffic already on the highway to just get out of their way as they enter. I can't count the number of times that I would've been hit if I didn't slow down or whatever to make room for the idiot entering the highway.

    I do think that the drivers here are pretty good for the most part. The only real issues are the merging thing, and that most don't know what to do when traffic gets "heavy" because that's something that we don't get much of.
     
  2. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    That could lead to a discussion of RIGHT lane campers who won’t move to the center or left lanes when they’re open and a hundred cars are coming up an on ramp next to them, clearly about to merge...

    Or the number of idiots who never moved over for emergency vehicles or breakdowns so much that they made useless laws about it. Useless because nobody will ever get a ticket for it until AFTER they hit the cop, or firefighter, or paramedic...
     
  3. Kansas Flyer

    Kansas Flyer Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Most around here will move over if safe to do so. The problem is when they can't move over people still think that vehicles already on the highway are supposed to yield to them.
     
  4. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    Yep. Understand. Was just saying there’s a large contingent here who won’t move over to the LEFT when usually people complain about left lane hogs.
     
  5. RJM62

    RJM62 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    The ones with licenses aren't necessarily any better. At least when I lived there, they gave the road test in a parking lot. Seriously.

    Rich
     
  6. Sluggo63

    Sluggo63 Line Up and Wait

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    I do think it’s humorous that everyone here is the best driver in the world, and it’s all the other people on the road that don’t know what they’re doing. Statistically, half of us are below average (in the POA dataset).
     
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  7. Sluggo63

    Sluggo63 Line Up and Wait

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    It depends which MVC you went to. I got my license way back when in Rahway, and they had a closed course set up. My kids did it down the shore and they went driving on the local roads.
     
  8. RJM62

    RJM62 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Ah okay.

    I never actually took the road test because I already had a NY license. But I was watching people take it through the window while I waited for my paperwork to be processed. I don't remember which center it was. It was probably in Bergen County because that's where I was working.

    Rich
     
  9. RJM62

    RJM62 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Ah okay.

    I never actually took the road test because I already had a NY license. But I was watching people take it through the window while I waited for my paperwork to be processed. I don't remember which center it was. It was probably in Bergen County because that's where I was working.

    Rich
     
  10. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Not necessarily an accurate statement. In many cases it isn't accurate at all.

    Take 10 people and 9 of them have a driver rating of 0. 1 has a driver rating of 10. The average driver rating for the group is 1. But 90% are below average. There could also be the case where 90% are above average.
     
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  11. Mtns2Skies

    Mtns2Skies Super Moderator Management Council Member

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    Yeah but we're talking about a bell curve which is the distribution that almost all human traits lie on. So practically speaking half are above and half are below or depending on your standard deviation, a certain amount are indeed average.
     
  12. denverpilot

    denverpilot Tied Down

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    But it does disregard that we may be a somewhat “self-selected” group of people who pay more attention than average to the operation of large movable machinery and like doing it, besides perhaps having a touch of natural ability to do so.

    My wife hates everything about driving and has zero interest in things like learning to drive a stick, doing much more than barely holding the yoke in the airplane just to keep us upright while I dig for something in the back, etc.

    She also can’t judge distances at ALL. She knows when to brake to not hit things after decades of practice and such, but she plowed a parked car in her teens.

    She’s the perfect candidate for self-driving vehicle tech. If only someone had it on a gas pickup truck. LOL. She likes those now, at least. :)

    She’s not “unsafe”, she’s hit one vehicle in 40 um 30 some years, and she’s been rear ended a million times, but she’s closer to the low middle end of said bell curve than probably most folks here.

    We used to joke that she doesn’t drive, she aims. Ha. But she got better at it over the years.

    I had my stupid days in my early twenties and rolled a Jeep on a corner on a country dirt road, but haven’t had an at fault accident since. I did have someone run a red light and I got stopped in time to have them (amazingly) rip the front bumper off of my Jeep XJ. Amazing they didn’t hit anything else. 70+ year old lady. Terrified she would lose her license.

    So... no at fault stuff in 30 some years. Can’t say if it’s due to the above self-selection criteria but I drive a lot better than my wife does. I know that.

    The terrifying part is with my medical condition, once in a while I tell her to drive. I guess it’s no worse than sitting there silently as a CFI letting a student make a non-dangerous mistake so they learn, but OMG I really don’t like being a passenger in her truck. I’m learning deep breathing techniques and relaxation methods in order to maintain my wonderful marriage. Hahaha. Seriously.

    You may not have seen my Ford complaint post, but riding home from a LONG way from home without a seatbelt was not my favorite truck ride ever... hahaha. Noooooooo! LOL.
     
  13. RJM62

    RJM62 Touchdown! Greaser!

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    In my opinion, the one thing about the actual act of flying that's objectively more difficult than driving (at least in the city) is observational skills.

    I'm not talking about the knowledge required, but only the actual motor skills. Driving requires quicker reaction times, involves operating within much closer tolerances (separation is measured in inches), requires avoiding stationary objects and pedestrians as well as other vehicles, and more frequently requires split-second decisions due to unexpected situations such as drivers cutting you off or suicidal wildlife.

    In terms of observational skills, however, student pilots rapidly develop a much better "big picture" sense of awareness, which I think is the main reason most pilots say their driving improved when they started taking flying lessons. Things like energy management also help, but more in the sense of driving efficiently than driving safely.

    Rich
     
  14. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Data to support this claim specific to driving?
     
  15. Mtns2Skies

    Mtns2Skies Super Moderator Management Council Member

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    No more than you have. Mine just has logic behind it.
     
  16. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    I didn't state mine as fact. I posted it as an example of why the statement is not correct. A statement of fact requires the data to back it up. I'll wait.
     
  17. Mtns2Skies

    Mtns2Skies Super Moderator Management Council Member

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    I see we're feeling a bit pedantic today.

    Anyway this morning at a diner I overheard a lady talk about how she reversed back up an on-ramp because her GPS told her to go on the interstate and she disagreed. I nearly spit out my food and told her what a moron she is.
     
  18. Cap'n Jack

    Cap'n Jack Final Approach

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    I got mine back when CrackerJack had good prizes :goofy:
     
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  19. Sluggo63

    Sluggo63 Line Up and Wait

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    What? This is correct when you’re talking about something digital, but for something analog, like driving (or most anything else that humans do) is quite analog, therefore the ability falls on a bell curve, like @Mtns2Skies points out. The error in your logic is trying to put a objective score on something very subjective, like driving ability.

    What you are saying is that there is only 10 different drivers and they fall neatly into one of ten slots on your rating system. Let’s take this logic further. Since schools only give out 5 grades (A, B, C, D, F) that there are only 5 levels of students. Every B student has the same ability?
     
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  20. timwinters

    timwinters Touchdown! Greaser!

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    But flatlanders SUCK when you get them into the hills where they can't see 5 miles of road ahead. Not being able to see over a hill in the road or around a tree lined curve absolutely freaks the f*** out of them.

    When I get stuck behind someone going slooooooow on the way to/from the Buffalo River, it's almost always a Kansas or Nebraska plate. Of course, on the rare occasion when there's a valley long enough to pass, and they CAN see ahead, they speed up to 65.
     
  21. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    The term you were looking for is "median" not "average."
     
  22. Sluggo63

    Sluggo63 Line Up and Wait

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    Nah. Average was right. “Mean,” if you want to put a more formal word to it.
     
  23. Cap'n Jack

    Cap'n Jack Final Approach

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    Actually, @EdFred is correct. Sometimes the median and mean coincide. They often don't. One example is income- the mean income in the USA is larger than the median.
     
  24. Sluggo63

    Sluggo63 Line Up and Wait

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    Right, and median is a much better measurement of the central tendency for income because median deals with outliers much better. Bill Gates isn’t going to skew the data when looking at the median. When things have few outliers, mean is better (and you’re right, mean and median will be close with large sets of normally distributed data). The biggest advantage to using mean with something like this is that changes in the data set will affect the mean, where it may not with the median.

    Let’s say you have @EdFred’s magic driving scores and we have 11 drivers that score:
    {1, 1, 2, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10}

    Mean: 4.63
    Median: 4

    Now lets say they all attend @EdFred’s driving school. After attending the driving school, some of their scores went up. Obviously the worse drivers will show the bigger improvement.

    After driving school, the scores are:
    {2, 2, 2, 3, 4, 4, 6, 8, 8, 10, 10}

    Mean: 5.36
    Median: 4

    So, almost everybody got better, which is reflected in the mean/average, but the median score stayed the same. That’s why for something like this (or GPA, etc.) median doesn’t show quite the story that the mean does.

    Edit: Obviously I created a data set which proves my point, and other data sets may not, but the general theory still stands. Large data set with a normal-ish distribution and few outliers, mean is what you want. Discrete data set where you want to remove the effect of outliers, median is the way to go.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2019
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  25. Cap'n Jack

    Cap'n Jack Final Approach

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    It depends on the data set and what you want to measure. In the income example, both mean and median are needed to see the total picture. For process control, the mean and some measure of range are needed to verify the process is actually under control, and will reliably produce the desired quality for a product.

    It seems you agree the statement below is incorrect. Of course, it's BS because there is no definition of what defines an "average" or otherwise driver, so the data could be normally distributed or have some other shape.
     
  26. tspear

    tspear Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Not sure. I believe this thread sort of proves the average driver just sucks. :D

    Tim
     
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  27. n2230b

    n2230b Pre-takeoff checklist

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    Very few driving experiences can beat a long drive on a 2 lane mountain highway (think Colorado west slope) with huge drop offs and many turns stuck behind a SUBARU with COEXIST sticker.:mad2:
     
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  28. azure

    azure Final Approach

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    Sounds like a refugee from Vermont. And though mountain highways like that are shorter here, you can still get stuck behind one of those slowpokes along a valley floor 2-laner. The worst thing is, there are plenty of opportunities for them to pull off to let faster traffic pass, but THEY JUST WON'T DO IT. Grrr! :mad2:
     
  29. James331

    James331 Ejection Handle Pulled

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    It’s good on the west coast and just gets worse the further east it seems.
     
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  30. cessna182b

    cessna182b Line Up and Wait

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    IMHO a big part of the problem is that, in many cases, highway design is way behind the times to support today's traffic levels. In particular, merging lanes are wholly inadequate. Where I live we have a few that extend, as a separate
    lane, to the next offramp. Those work marvellously well. Unfortunately, they are few and far between. Same situation with Roundabouts. Where we have them they work great!.

    Dave
     
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  31. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    They work fine if people leave the gap they are supposed to.
     
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  32. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    Yes! We've gotten quite a few more traffic circles in our area recently, and every one has improved the situation at the intersection where it was installed - Some that replaced lights, some that replaced 4-way stops. I'm a big fan, because I wait a LOT less at those intersections, unless I'm behind the rare clueless person who stops and waits for all the traffic from all directions to clear before they go...
     
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  33. Dav8or

    Dav8or Final Approach

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    I imagine most of the people responding here are the worst drivers. Lots of over confidence. You can tell by al the folks trying to explain why they are better then average.

    (The key is to look for those complaining about slow drivers. That is the huge red flag and tells you all you need to know.)
     
  34. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Oh, so complaining about the the person going 10-15mph under the posted limit in the left (fast) lane when the highway is marked "keep right except to pass" makes the complainant a bad driver. You are an idiot if you believe that is the case.
     
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  35. flyingbrit

    flyingbrit Pre-takeoff checklist

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  36. EdFred

    EdFred Touchdown! Greaser! PoA Supporter

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    Public transport. Should be based on number of vehicles on road, not population. A lot of metro centers the residents don't drive.
     
  37. flyingcheesehead

    flyingcheesehead Touchdown! Greaser!

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    It's hard to get killed when you never go faster than 15mph.
     
  38. SoCal RV Flyer

    SoCal RV Flyer En-Route

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    One of the worst drivers in SoCal just bought the farm yesterday, about a mile from my house. He challenged a stoplight pole in his McLaren 720S and the pole won, resulting in what Elon Musk would call a rapid unscheduled disassembly. Big fireball; all that was recognizable was a bit of the front clip, a rear wheel and melted powerplant...composite bodies on these cars burn away to nothingness. Not sure if he was killed on impact, or just knocked unconscious and trapped inside, but he burned with the vehicle. Will have to go to the dental records to ID this sucker.

    The pole was right at he entrance to a community center, and there's typically a lot of pedestrian traffic crossing the street or waiting on that corner. So fortunate he didn't take out any innocents.

    driver-dead-after-car-crashes-into-light-pole-catches-fire-in-laguna-hills

    Drive safe out there, guys.
     
  39. tspear

    tspear Pattern Altitude PoA Supporter

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    Oh so true....

    Tim
     
  40. Ghery

    Ghery Final Approach

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    High speeds cannot be attained in much of the Boston area. Too many fender benders blocking the road. :p