Winter Overnight parking

Jaybird180

Jaybird180

Final Approach
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Jaybird180
I am planning a XC trip to KRDU to see family and plan to fly in on a Saturday morning and depart early Sunday morning; it might be cold. What should I do to mitigate the possibility of frost? I called ahead and spoke with both FBO operators on-field and neither offers electricity for those parking on the ramp (for the electric pre-heater), but obviously it's available if I reserve hangar space. How do you guys handle winter transient parking?
 
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Jaybird180 said:
I am planning a XC trip to see family and plan to fly in on a Saturday morning and depart early Sunday morning; it might be cold. What should I do to mitigate the possibility of frost? I called ahead and spoke with both FBO operators on-field and neither offers electricity for those parking on the ramp (for the electric pre-heater), but obviously it's available if I reserve hangar space. How do you guys handle winter transient parking?
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If you are worried about frost on the airframe your three choices are
1- Hangar
2- deice
3- wait till it warms up to melt the frost
 
Depends on how cold it's going to be. If pre-heat isn't available, if the temps above 40 I just start the engine and let it warm up. If it's going to be colder than that, I ask them to pull the plane into a warm hangar for a couple of hours before takeoff.
 
In the winter I always call ahead and ask if hangar space is available and what the cost is regardless of the forecast. If the temps are below 40F or so and/or precip is forecast I ask them to put it in the hangar.
 
Jaybird180 said:
I am planning a XC trip to see family and plan to fly in on a Saturday morning and depart early Sunday morning; it might be cold. What should I do to mitigate the possibility of frost? I called ahead and spoke with both FBO operators on-field and neither offers electricity for those parking on the ramp (for the electric pre-heater), but obviously it's available if I reserve hangar space. How do you guys handle winter transient parking?
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I am dealing with the same issue. Have a hangar and electric preheat in Charlottesville, VA but am traveling to Las Vegas tomorrow with overnight stops in St. Louis and Albuquerque. I tried to find a way around it, but I have decided to just pay the ~$50 a night to put it in a hangar over night.

Ryan
 
When flying "up Nort" I put the bird in a hangar for the night unless wx is forecast to remain above 40 or so.
 
If it's frost, you are limited to complete airframe heating - hangar, etc.

If you're just worried about the engine, see if one of the FBO's will pull it up next to a building so you can plug the block heater in a few hours before departure. I can't see a service-focused FBO not doing something like that for you, especially if you're buying fuel from them.

If neither of them will do that, post up their names and locations here so we will know not to support them in the future. ;)
 
If the hangar is heated, pulling it inside for about an hour or so is usually enough to defrost a lot of it (unless you have frozen precip). Even when they can't give me hangar overnight, they often can pull me inside in the morning once they start moving out the other guys who are departing.
 
I used to have to park a bonanza on an icy ramp overnight many(30+) times a year in Iowa. Below is what worked very nicely for me. Electricity is required

-Plug in the engine to an outlet with a high quality extension cord.

-Put a small ceramic type heater into the cabin and run the cord out the door, using a "y," plug this cord into the engine heater, this allows you to power the engine and cabin heater off of one extension cord.

This alone will keep the fuselage and windows frost free , even in subzero temps. Not to mention the gyros, and how nice is it to put a warm headset on ?

For the rest of the plane I kept a squirt bottle of TKS fluid and a short-handled squeegee to remove wet snow/ice. The TKS will keep frozen precip in a "slush" state that will pull right off with the squeegee...if you expect precip spray the plane down liberally before going to the hotel
 
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taters said:
I used to have to park a bonanza on an icy ramp overnight many(30+) times a year in Iowa. Below is what worked very nicely for me. Electricity is required

-Plug in the engine to an outlet with a high quality extension cord.

-Put a small ceramic type heater into the cabin and run the cord out the door, using a "y" plug this cord into the engine heater, this allows you to power the engine and cabin heater off of one extension cord.

This alone will keep the fuselage and windows frost free , even in subzero temps. For the rest of the plane I kept a squirt bottle of TKS fluid and a short-handled squeegee to remove snow/ice. The TKS will keep frozen precip in a "slush" state that will pull right off with the squeegee...if you expect precip spray the plane down liberally before going to the hotel
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I also use a heater in the plane but not for the frost as much as to keep the instruments warm. The moving parts in them suffer from the cold as well as the engine. The fact that I get a warm cabin out of the deal is a bonus.
 
We use heaters in the cabin on the club planes, and they sit in unheated hangars. Don't have to worry about frost on the wings, but the instruments certainly appreciate being kept above ambient.
 
The old man's Cessna 120 lived on a tiedown with no electricity year round here near Detroit. My brother and I cleaned it off every time it snowed, but other than that, we pretty much just flew it. There were occasions where it was down for a day or two due to ice on the wings, but that was rare.
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
The old man's Cessna 120 lived on a tiedown with no electricity year round here near Detroit. My brother and I cleaned it off every time it snowed, but other than that, we pretty much just flew it. There were occasions where it was down for a day or two due to ice on the wings, but that was rare.
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Blasphemy!:hairraise:

LOL:rofl:
 
Capt. Geoffrey Thorpe said:
The old man's Cessna 120 lived on a tiedown with no electricity year round here near Detroit. My brother and I cleaned it off every time it snowed, but other than that, we pretty much just flew it. There were occasions where it was down for a day or two due to ice on the wings, but that was rare.
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I learned to fly in New England in airplanes that were tied down outside year round. I don't recall ever having a problem with frost or ice on the wings - but generally if there were days that ice was a problem for the plane, it was probably a bigger problem to get to the airport.

Definitily needed preheat to get the engine started a few times though.

Generally I would say that if the weather is good enough for you fly in and fly out the next day, you probably aren't going to have a problem with ice or frost on the wings.
 
n12365 said:
I am dealing with the same issue. Have a hangar and electric preheat in Charlottesville, VA but am traveling to Las Vegas tomorrow with overnight stops in St. Louis and Albuquerque. I tried to find a way around it, but I have decided to just pay the ~$50 a night to put it in a hangar over night.

Ryan
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Do you have to stop at St. Louis or just in the area? If you can go a little further, stop at Sullivan (KUUV) Billy can fix you up with a hangar or electric to plug your heater in.
 
Tom-D said:
two of these http://www.air-n-water.com/product/h-1321.htm

one of these
http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Honda-EU2000I-Portable-Generator/p6278.html

you are good to go.. covers are a big help.
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Right idea, but check the wattage requirements. With the current surge, you might have a hard time with one heater, on that generator.

A friend uses a honda gen with eng. pan heaters and a 100 watt droplight stuck up under the panel to warm that area up. He lands a tripacer on frozen lakes, spends a couple of nights hunting, then preheats and comes home.

Covers do make a difference. Including an engine cover.

Personally, I like the idea of paying for a thaw out in a hanger. Normally the price isn't ridiculous like parking the thing in there overnight, but it varies. Though there aren't too many hangars built on frozen lakes in bush AK.
 
CJones said:
If you're just worried about the engine, see if one of the FBO's will pull it up next to a building so you can plug the block heater in a few hours before departure. I can't see a service-focused FBO not doing something like that for you, especially if you're buying fuel from them.

If neither of them will do that, post up their names and locations here so we will know not to support them in the future. ;)
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I don't remember the FBO's name, but the only one I knew of at GLR at the time I called (about 3 years ago) said they do not offer transient aircraft access to electricity for pre-heaters, period. So I've pretty much given up on the idea of overnight trips up north at this time of year. I'd be very happy to learn that that particular FBO's policy was an exception.
 
CJones said:
If it's frost, you are limited to complete airframe heating - hangar, etc.
...

If neither of them will do that, post up their names and locations here so we will know not to support them in the future. ;)
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I edited my original post.

Both were equally helpful and seemed willing to accommodate if I wanted hangar space.
 
bgdriveway said:
Right idea, but check the wattage requirements. With the current surge, you might have a hard time with one heater, on that generator.

A friend uses a honda gen with eng. pan heaters and a 100 watt droplight stuck up under the panel to warm that area up. He lands a tripacer on frozen lakes, spends a couple of nights hunting, then preheats and comes home.

Covers do make a difference. Including an engine cover.

Personally, I like the idea of paying for a thaw out in a hanger. Normally the price isn't ridiculous like parking the thing in there overnight, but it varies. Though there aren't too many hangars built on frozen lakes in bush AK.
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the electric heaters will draw all the amps that are available, and heat as much they can with that output.

and that is plenty to heat the aircraft.
 
Maybe, but when the gen. keeps stalling because of too big of a load they don't put out any heat. And I like those honda gens. I would buy a honda if I needed a gen that size.
 
I think you are over worry. It does not typically get that cold at KRDU, check forecast at:http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClic...ite=RAH&textField1=35.822&textField2=-78.6588

I use Landmark Aviation FBO. They have good service and car rentals. At night you may get freezing temperatures but any frost will likely be gone by 9am. Unlike Goose Bay were preheat is provided you don't really need it at Raleigh.

José
 
azure said:
I don't remember the FBO's name, but the only one I knew of at GLR at the time I called (about 3 years ago) said they do not offer transient aircraft access to electricity for pre-heaters, period. So I've pretty much given up on the idea of overnight trips up north at this time of year. I'd be very happy to learn that that particular FBO's policy was an exception.
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Interesting. Must be a liability issue for some folks. The few times that I was parked outside on a cold day/night, the FBO never had a problem with pulling the plane up near the building and plugging it in for me. I even had one offer to put it in the heated maintenance hangar for the morning for free.
 
Fearless Tower said:
I learned to fly in New England in airplanes that were tied down outside year round. I don't recall ever having a problem with frost or ice on the wings - but generally if there were days that ice was a problem for the plane, it was probably a bigger problem to get to the airport.

Definitily needed preheat to get the engine started a few times though.

Generally I would say that if the weather is good enough for you fly in and fly out the next day, you probably aren't going to have a problem with ice or frost on the wings.
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I learned to fly at ASH and flew in New England for a number of years. Also a few years in GFK and RCA. Airplanes were always outside. But if I'm going XC and need to be moving on as soon as the weather allows, hanger if possible.
 
I plan be almost home @9a, and there is no guarantee it will not be colder.

Piloto said:
I think you are over worry. It does not typically get that cold at KRDU, check forecast at:http://forecast.weather.gov/MapClic...ite=RAH&textField1=35.822&textField2=-78.6588

I use Landmark Aviation FBO. They have good service and car rentals. At night you may get freezing temperatures but any frost will likely be gone by 9am. Unlike Goose Bay were preheat is provided you don't really need it at Raleigh.

José
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bgdriveway said:
Maybe, but when the gen. keeps stalling because of too big of a load they don't put out any heat. And I like those honda gens. I would buy a honda if I needed a gen that size.
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My little gen set just runs wide open and burns fuel like a pig, but both heaters stay on.
 
Well that's cool then. The one my friend has will stall out if the load gets above the rating so particular attention has to be paid to wattage.
 
CJones said:
Interesting. Must be a liability issue for some folks. The few times that I was parked outside on a cold day/night, the FBO never had a problem with pulling the plane up near the building and plugging it in for me. I even had one offer to put it in the heated maintenance hangar for the morning for free.
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I guess I don't see why the liability involved in letting customers plug their planes in (using the customer's own extension cord) would be more of a concern than letting customers drive the local roads in a courtesy car. Maybe I'm being naive, I don't know. Also, I was under the impression that the reason was that they just didn't have the facilities to offer it to everyone, so they didn't offer it at all. But I don't recall exactly what they said specifically to leave me with that impression, so I could be wrong on that.

It's good to know that other FBOs are more accommodating... I know who I'd rather give my business to anyway. But I'll check with the folks at GLR again if I get invited up that way this year, since it's possible their policy has changed.
 
Just caught up with this post, sorry if I'm late to the ball:

Plane is outside 24/7..if snow and freezing rain is forecast, I (try to) get a friend and we do the dance to cover the wings and stabilizer with the covers beforehand-not a fun task, but it works. Putting those things on and off of a 172 is the biggest hassle of all!

I have a mix of glycol and alcohol in a good quality garden sprayer in my storage box. If there's a light layer of frost on the wings, rudder and stabilizer, I give those surfaces a treatment with that and then let the sun do the rest of the work. It has this really cool purplish color, so I know the surfaces are evenly covered by sight. I do lower the flaps to full down position first to ensure that any frozen stuff in the works gets a shot of the mixture...and that the flaps are not frozen in place. During the runup I cycle them through a couple of times to make sure.

The pitot tube and engine air intakes are always covered year round. I look carefully at the static port as well for any frost.

The Tanis gets plugged in night before if I know I'm flying the next day. When I get to the plane morning of a flight in cold WX, the Tanis gets unplugged, and I plug in one of those small cube heaters and sit it on the floor in front of the passengers seat, and direct the warm air toward the front of the plane to warm up the instruments and cabin itself.

Startup is the usual drill, and I just let the engine warm up on it's own accord. I do really enjoy flying in the winter time, smooth air, really clear and the plane climbs like an angel!
 
If a hangar is available, I put the aircraft in the hangar- makes life simpler.

Bill
 
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