WINGS activity question...

[denverpilot]

So... want to hunt the giant database of activities with me?

What FAA Wings Activity number would someone request credit for, for an ADD ON CFI rating?
(Example, adding on CFI-AMEL after CFI-ASEL Airplane...)

There's... activity number A071024-01, "Initial Certification - Flight Instructor (Includes Renewal and Reinstatement)" but that doesn't work for an add-on.

"Also note that this activity is for the initial issuance of a certificate only; the addition of a rating to an already issued certificate does not qualify."

Was just playing around in there giving my Flight Review pilot from earlier today WINGS credit (since nobody seems to ever do that for folks... I try to remember to do it...) for his FR, and thought I would poke around on other stuff while I was in there...

Is there a single activity that applies? (I know you could sign off various individual tasks, but wondering if there's an activity in there for an add-on...)

Just seemed odd they don't appear to have one that's specific to a category or class add-on to the CFI.

They have a category/class pilot certificate one.

That's activity A100415-1 "Category or Class Rating - Additional Aircraft (Pvt, Comml, ATP)" which states...

"Satisfactory completion of a Practical Test for the addition of an aircraft Category or Class rating on an existing pilot certificate."

 

[denverpilot]

P.S. I do understand the difference between "certificate" and "rating" which makes the "Initial" activity a "possibility"... but the "Initial" title, seems to me to make that very unclear.

 

[midlifeflyer]

How about this. It's gobbledygook. Adding a new rating to a CFI certificate is one of the methods of renewing the certificate. See 61.197(a). The course description says it applies to renewals.

Interesting thing to bring up to a FAASTeam Program Manager.

 

[denverpilot]

Interesting thing to bring up to a FAASTeam Program Manager.

I actually tossed a note at them out of curiosity. Will see what they say.

 

[iamtheari]

I’d just be happy to find a WINGS tutorial that explains how and why to use the program. I have received credits for various activities like Sporty’s DVD programs and webinars, but the only effect I see is an e-mail a year later telling me that my credits have expired. I know you can skip flight reviews by utilizing the WINGS program, but I haven’t figured out how the combination of self-study credits plus flight instructor time works out as a better deal than just having a flight review. (In fairness, I haven’t had a flight review and plan not to for some time, as there are plenty of certificates and ratings to earn to keep extending my flight review date without actually taking one.)

 

[denverpilot]

I’d just be happy to find a WINGS tutorial that explains how and why to use the program. I have received credits for various activities like Sporty’s DVD programs and webinars, but the only effect I see is an e-mail a year later telling me that my credits have expired. I know you can skip flight reviews by utilizing the WINGS program, but I haven’t figured out how the combination of self-study credits plus flight instructor time works out as a better deal than just having a flight review. (In fairness, I haven’t had a flight review and plan not to for some time, as there are plenty of certificates and ratings to earn to keep extending my flight review date without actually taking one.)

Have you logged into the site and looked under the Pilot menu at “My WINGS”? That shows you what you need to finish to meet a particular phase.

 

[iamtheari]

Have you logged into the site and looked under the Pilot menu at “My WINGS”? That shows you what you need to finish to meet a particular phase.

That’s a step above my request. Where does it explain what a phase is and why to care about completing phases? I really do feel like it would be easier to just do a flight review than deal with this system.

 

[denverpilot]

That’s a step above my request. Where does it explain what a phase is and why to care about completing phases? I really do feel like it would be easier to just do a flight review than deal with this system.

In the document on the site, think it’s called “Pilot’s Guide to the WINGS Program” or similar.

It’s all there...

 

[iamtheari]

In the document on the site, think it’s called “Pilot’s Guide to the WINGS Program” or similar.

It’s all there...

I’ll look harder next time I sign in. I normally just search for seminars close to me, which are infrequent. Hopefully they give a solid “why” that makes sense to me, a simple unfrozen caveman lawyer.

 

[denverpilot]

I’ll look harder next time I sign in. I normally just search for seminars close to me, which are infrequent. Hopefully they give a solid “why” that makes sense to me, a simple unfrozen caveman lawyer.

Honestly it’s geared toward a “continuous training” mode more than a “meet a requirement” mode. There’s ground and flight activities and a LOT of instructors don’t put flight activities in for people or never log in to see that people have requested them.

You’d end up flying more than the bare minimum for an FR if you go the WINGS route, but a lot of these things would just be added as you go along if you fly doing any sort of proficiency flying with an instructor regularly and you’d be in a perpetual state of “not needing a flight review”.

So to some, the two year two hour thing is easier, but for anyone with a personal proficiency plan, they’d just meet the requirements constantly.

I tossed my recent IPC in there and a request to the CFI who did it to validate it.

The system does also let you have a different CFI validate activities if you run into an old codger CFI who can barely run a browser and never uses the site. On the CFI side it asks us if we flew that item with you or not, but it lets us validate the activity anyway, they’re just seeing how often that happens.

But if it’s something like an IPC in a logbook that I can validate, I’ll validate it for someone. Can do it from my iPad standing on the ramp if they want.

Activities can range from something like an IPC all the way down to practicing some landings or whatever, depending on what’s available in the database. New ratings, etc... all get different point values for Basic, Advanced, and Master WINGS.

They made it a little too gimicky about the “scoring” system than the old original WINGS program but really it’s not too hard to qualify for a phase.

CAP pilots (just mentioning it for completeness) can link their CAP ID number with their WINGS and Form 5 checkrides count for enough points to cover their FR. Think there’s at least one other organization doing something like that also.

Have seen in the database where flight clubs have come up with their own ground presentation schedules and flight activities approved by their local safety program folks that after you read through all the activities from that club you realized they’d basically created a social event system with some flying with a club CFI that covered everyone in the club for currency if they participated.

That’s pretty neat but takes a bit of effort on the part of someone at the club. I suspect there’s a CFI who’s a FAASTeam member at those clubs. Going to put on seminars anyway, might as well make it a plan to keep everyone in the club somewhat proficient.

 

[midlifeflyer]

I’d just be happy to find a WINGS tutorial that explains how and why to use the program. I have received credits for various activities like Sporty’s DVD programs and webinars, but the only effect I see is an e-mail a year later telling me that my credits have expired. I know you can skip flight reviews by utilizing the WINGS program, but I haven’t figured out how the combination of self-study credits plus flight instructor time works out as a better deal than just having a flight review. (In fairness, I haven’t had a flight review and plan not to for some time, as there are plenty of certificates and ratings to earn to keep extending my flight review date without actually taking one.)

If you mean a financial deal, it doesn't if you just compare the two in a vacuum. With a good pilot I can probably complete 3 wings flight credits in close to the same amount of time as the flight portion of a FR, but that's not the idea.

We get into these stupid discussions about "biennial" being dropped, but the reason the FAA dropped it was to (at least semantically) get rid of the idea that Part 91 pilots only need training once every two years. Wings is an extension of that concept. Wings flight credits can be earned over a 12 month period. So, you wake up one morning and the winds are strong. Feeling a bit weak about those crosswind landings, you call your friendly CFI to get some extra comfort training. Good session. Your landings are not only ACS-standard, but your comfort level is higher. A few months later, you are going on a family trip. Your VFR-only and know the area is susceptible to low (though legal) visibility and you want to do some hood work. So you call your friendly CFI. Chances are, between the two activities you have earned a flight review.

My last flight review was a surprise. I was checking out in a Mooney Ovation for a client. Anytime I fly with a CFI, I see what I might satisfy in the course of doing it. So, after the flight I checked off the boxes and requested the instructor verification. The next day, I get a message for the FAA that I have a band new flight review. I didn't even realize I had enough already pending.

The "catch" is obvious - you have to feel the need for instruction from time to time, or at least think it has some value. I've met plenty of pilots who think the FR itself it a PITA, let alone optional flight trading.

 

[iamtheari]

The "catch" is obvious - you have to feel the need for instruction from time to time, or at least think it has some value. I've met plenty of pilots who think the FR itself it a PITA, let alone optional flight trading.

Thanks. Perfect explanation. I’m still a young pilot and, like I said, I’m in the process of avoiding flight reviews by adding ratings and certificates every year, and that doesn’t even count the lessons that aren’t toward a certificate or rating (aerobatics last winter, mountain flying up next) so this had not occurred to me yet. There hasn’t yet been a time when I haven’t wanted to go flying with a CFI to learn or improve a skill. I should probably have got the aerobatic instructor to validate some WINGS credits for me, in hindsight.