will your VOR become obsolete

I probably skimmed too fast, so it wasn't clear how VOR would be retained for only the "core 30" airports yet also continue to provide backup to GPS for enroute navigation.
 
Jim Logajan said:
I probably skimmed too fast, so it wasn't clear how VOR would be retained for only the "core 30" airports yet also continue to provide backup to GPS for enroute navigation.
Click to expand...

...or maybe you're perceptive - it won't be an effective backup except for those who "matter" - which is to say, fly in the Flight Levels, where the service volume of VORs is greatest.
 
So, when I'm in the sh*t to minimums, and the GPS-WAAS based nav system in my plane craps out on final, and I have no backup system to go to, like I do now, what am I supposed to do? Fly 100nm to one of the 'alternate system available' options? They gotta be kidding, right?

Too many assumptions in that proposal, and too much reliance on the "integrity" of a sat based system, that according to the register document, has seen an 'increase in RFI interference' over the last few years.

Uh huh....
 
Tom-D said:
http://www.federalregister.gov/arti...ovision-of-navigation-services-for-the-next-g
Click to expand...
No I don't think so. This is a study and may or may not come to the end that is being proposed. When I was at the airlines there was alot of talk about streamlining the airway system with gps to keep the congestion down. More or less there would be alot less vectoring for approches and dep. Ect.... This sounds alot like what I was hearing about 3-4 years ago. I don't believe that there is any way to get rid of the core "Legacy" Nav. But hey you never know huh:thumbsup:
 
I'll be long obsolete before VORs become obsolete. VORs play a very important function in most any real cockpit, they provide your pilot passengers with something to fiddle with while your droning along the magenta line on your yoke mounted doomahocky from Garmin.

John
 
Even when the last VOR is decommissioned they will still be used for navigation. The distinctive VOR antennae will serve as VFR landmarks.
 
With the glacial swiftness that the FAA operates, it'll be another 35 years before they're decommissioned. I wouldn't worry too much.
 
They're here to stay...For now. I still depend on them and it's nice to know I have a backup if the fragile system powered by satelites (I love GPS as much as the next guy, but it has yet to have all of its kinks worked out) craps out.
 
Last edited:
It's already obsolete, the question is when will it get decommissioned.
 
There is obsolete, and useless. They are far from useless. Having 1 nav source that is based on sattelites in free space is kinds silly.
 
One good airburst of a nuke that sends out EMF and wipes out the GPS system..... and the guvmint will pay dearly for deleting VOR's and the Loran system...
IMHO.
 
n20junkie said:
There is obsolete, and useless. They are far from useless. Having 1 nav source that is based on sattelites in free space is kinds silly.
Click to expand...

I prefer picking up 8-11 satellites at a time, versus one line of sight VOR that's behind a mountain.

I won't miss the VOR system. Figured out the the GPS setup was much more accurate and efficient 18 years ago. Haven't changed my mind.
 
N801BH said:
One good airburst of a nuke that sends out EMF and wipes out the GPS system..... and the guvmint will pay dearly for deleting VOR's and the Loran system...
IMHO.
Click to expand...

That's why INS will be be around longer than any radio based system.
 
N801BH said:
One good airburst of a nuke that sends out EMF and wipes out the GPS system..... and the guvmint will pay dearly for deleting VOR's and the Loran system...
IMHO.
Click to expand...

You think that the VORs are going to survive an EMP either?
 
I'm not concerned about EMP...
I am concerned about a string of Chinese satellites turning on their GPS jammers and leaving our Pacific carrier fleet helpless - along with the entire USA...
I am concerned with China's new muscle flexing over Taiwan and Japan disputes, that day could come soon...
I am concerned it will be the day I am dependent on GPS to get me back down on the ground safely because they turned off the VOR/ILS at my airport...

When an army is dependent upon superior technology to defeat an enemy, the best way for the enemy to win is not to confront the technology head on, rather to take that advantage away, leaving the technology dependent opponent basically helpless in spite of his mighty weapons...

denny-o
 
Dr. O said:
I'm not concerned about EMP...
I am concerned about a string of Chinese satellites turning on their GPS jammers and leaving our Pacific carrier fleet helpless - along with the entire USA...
I am concerned with China's new muscle flexing over Taiwan and Japan disputes, that day could come soon...
I am concerned it will be the day I am dependent on GPS to get me back down on the ground safely because they turned off the VOR/ILS at my airport...

When an army is dependent upon superior technology to defeat an enemy, the best way for the enemy to win is not to confront the technology head on, rather to take that advantage away, leaving the technology dependent opponent basically helpless in spite of his mighty weapons...

denny-o
Click to expand...

Those are all valid points..:yesnod::yesnod::yesnod:

The thing that bothers me .... It is not if.. but when this is going to happen.... It will be a sad day for humanity for sure.... :(:(
 
I'm not worried about the 6th fleet in the Taiwan Strait. When the invasion comes, the US Dept. of the Treasury will apply to our Chinese bankers for a loan to operate the fleet. The rest is a foregone conclusion.

Honestly the financial condition of this country is enough to warrant the un-election of every member of our representative "government".

The VORs must go because we can't afford them. However, they can still pack a VOR station kit into the back of a C130.....
 
bbchien said:
I'm not worried about the 6th fleet in the Taiwan Strait. When the invasion comes, the US Dept. of the Treasury will apply to our Chinese bankers for a loan to operate the fleet. The rest is a foregone conclusion.

Honestly the financial condition of this country is enough to warrant the un-election of every member of our representative "government".

The VORs must go because we can't afford them. However, they can still pack a VOR station kit into the back of a C130.....
Click to expand...

Doc, the chinese will never invade us, they already have the secrets, the education, and the materials we gave them, so they can make better aircraft, ships, and weapons. Plus they have no qualms about selling them to our enemies. that is why Iran has the silk worm.
 
bbchien said:
The VORs must go because we can't afford them. However, they can still pack a VOR station kit into the back of a C130.....
Click to expand...

I watched the contractors build the Penn Cove VOR (CVV) and it took less than one day after the slab concrete set. and the electronics were about the size of a big suitcase.
 
N801BH said:
One good airburst of a nuke that sends out EMF and wipes out the GPS system..... and the guvmint will pay dearly for deleting VOR's and the Loran system...
IMHO.
Click to expand...

Some news reports suggest that Iran, with China's help, was able to spoof the GPS signals guiding our drone thus causing it to land in Iran.

I wonder if they cold spoof the GPS signals for IFR traffic landing at say JFK, BOS, LAX, LGA or wherever else? That could be most unpleasant. :hairraise:
 
Gmaper said:
Some news reports suggest that Iran, with China's help, was able to spoof the GPS signals guiding our drone
Click to expand...
Apparently these claims are pure fabrication but the sure look good in a paper and have this 'wow' factor that media so crave for.
 
They say the cost of replacing all 967 VORs would be $1B like that's a lot of money. The Feds probably pi$$ that much away on donuts for staff meetings.
 
L.Adamson said:
I prefer picking up 8-11 satellites at a time, versus one line of sight VOR that's behind a mountain.

I won't miss the VOR system. Figured out the the GPS setup was much more accurate and efficient 18 years ago. Haven't changed my mind.
Click to expand...
Larry, I am in full agreement, only minutes ago noticed your post. :wink2:
 
N801BH said:
One good airburst of a nuke that sends out EMF and wipes out the GPS system..... and the guvmint will pay dearly for deleting VOR's and the Loran system...
IMHO.
Click to expand...

Knock out the satellites or knock out the receivers near the nuke? I can see how the latter could be done with one nuke, but t'would be one powerful nuke to knock out the satellites below the horizon of this air burst. (The satellites are ~12,000 miles AGL.)
 
N801BH said:
One good airburst of a nuke that sends out EMF and wipes out the GPS system..... and the guvmint will pay dearly for deleting VOR's and the Loran system...
IMHO.
Click to expand...

Actually no, our government will not pay squat. We the people are the ones who will pay dearly, not our government. Our government various departments and political heads will point their fingers at each other. If that doesn't work, they will tell us just how much they have learned from their mistake. We will lap it up and agree they must be right. End of story.

John
 
John Baker said:
Actually no, our government will not pay squat. We the people are the ones who will pay dearly, not our government. Our government various departments and political heads will point their fingers at each other. If that doesn't work, they will tell us just how much they have learned from their mistake. We will lap it up and agree they must be right. End of story.
Click to expand...

And of course, all during this nuclear war, in which powerful nations are destroying each other..........we'll just be on some GA cross country flight, getting lost....
 
Tom-D said:
I watched the contractors build the Penn Cove VOR (CVV) and it took less than one day after the slab concrete set. and the electronics were about the size of a big suitcase.
Click to expand...

If they are so small, and easy to install, please someone explain the massive expense?

Or are we just listening to the BS of those who want something thier way.

Government is run the inverse of private industry.

Governmnet wants more money, all the while doing less and less for its customers.

The FAA is more than happy to let the .MIL pay for the GPS system, and at the same time remove any responsibility to service navaids. Just map makers, controllers and inspectors. 2 groups of which charge for thier services, onrpe way or another.
 
Jim Logajan said:
Knock out the satellites or knock out the receivers near the nuke? I can see how the latter could be done with one nuke, but t'would be one powerful nuke to knock out the satellites below the horizon of this air burst. (The satellites are ~12,000 miles AGL.)
Click to expand...

The explosion will not take out the satellites.. it is the Electro Magnetic Field that propogates outward that does all the damage to RF signals that GPS receivers operate off of..... You don't want to be on a GPS approach at minimums when it hits the fan..:nonod::nonod::eek:.. Just picture it a giant Lightsquared test..:yesnod::yesnod::wink2:

Ben.
 
Last edited:
Actually, it would not matter if we lost all our GPS satellites, along with our VOR system, after all, we are private pilots, we don't need none of that steenking stuff, we know pilotage and dead reckoning. Screw them and their nuclear wars. :cornut:

John
 
China and Iran don't need to invade us we (well what was our government) is already broke. They are raising the debt ceiling just to make the minimum payments. Try that with your credit card, lol. Point is we are either going be nearly isolationist (foriegn policy wise not trade wise) and just pay the debt spending only what is absolutely necessary or much more likely this government is going belly-up fast. Maybe we can sell Hawaii to Japan, Alaska to Russia, and California to China and be debt free.. Anyway on VORs they must stay for redundancy. Just like we have an electric turn coordinator and a vacuum powered AI. Its all about your odds and your outs kinda like a poker game. We seem to be great at improving our odds while forgetting to leave ourselves any outs..

<---<^>--->
 
Forget China and Iran. All we need to fear is industry buying off the current administration (which ever that is at the time, they're not partisan, they'll bribe whoever is in power) to allow the desecration of the GPS spectrum.
 
flyingron said:
Forget China and Iran. All we need to fear is industry buying off the current administration (which ever that is at the time, they're not partisan, they'll bribe whoever is in power) to allow the desecration of the GPS spectrum.
Click to expand...

Buying off the current administration? What are you talking about? Industry has been buying off every administration, along with our Congressional representatives since the civil war.

Try this, try to make an appointment with your Congress person for a face to face as one of their constituents, see how far you get. The only people they are interested in seeing is anyone who can substantially add to their war chest. Now try to guess who that might be.

For even more fun, try doing it with our president.


John
 
Funny part is that's what OWS is protesting but yet we laugh at them. I'm guilty of it too but just saying.

<---<^>--->
 
When I called the briefer a few days ago (no I do NOT have GPS) they told me that my VOR may or may not be in service (Skaggs VOR, near my airport). I did not end up flying or I would have checked it out (maybe). I fly again if weather cooperates on Friday (in two days). I am thinking of downloading something (if it is free) onto my new Android with a 4.5 inch screen that I bought SPECIFICALLY for aviation. In my old beat up 152 that is not rated for instrument, VOR's are just about all I have for navigation. That and a compass.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top