Datadriver
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Datadriver
Vote now!
Will the 2020 ADS-B Mandate be Delayed?
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SixPapaCharlie
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Sixer
Nothing happens on time.
mjburian
Cleared for Takeoff
Is "Not delayed, but loosely/weakly enforced" an option?
jnmeade
Cleared for Takeoff
I doubt if it will be delayed, and one reason I say that is because it may be part of the solution as to how to integrate UAS into the NAS, especially larger UAS. Many of the missions envisioned require much larger than the sUAS now being played with.
If anything, I would not be surprised if portable systems became acceptable and even more aircraft were required to use ADB-S.
I agree that some relaxation of standards may be permitted for some aircraft in some environments.
Having said the above, the FAA is getting a lot of political pressure and is going to get even more as new constituents join the game, so I am not strongly convinced of anything.
My bottom line is I will plan to have ADS-B in my airplane that will require one on schedule.
If anything, I would not be surprised if portable systems became acceptable and even more aircraft were required to use ADB-S.
I agree that some relaxation of standards may be permitted for some aircraft in some environments.
Having said the above, the FAA is getting a lot of political pressure and is going to get even more as new constituents join the game, so I am not strongly convinced of anything.
My bottom line is I will plan to have ADS-B in my airplane that will require one on schedule.
I'm not seeing delays.
tmyers
En-Route
I am gonna guess no delays in the hopes the I am proven wrong, Kinda like washing your car because you need rain!!!!
Mistake Not...
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Mistake Not...
No reason for a delay.
What -would- be nice is if the reforms to equipment certification requirements would hurry up and get passed. I forget what they're called, but it was supposed to make it easier (cheaper!) to get stuff into certified aircraft.
What -would- be nice is if the reforms to equipment certification requirements would hurry up and get passed. I forget what they're called, but it was supposed to make it easier (cheaper!) to get stuff into certified aircraft.
That may not have a great affect on ADS-B equipment which has its own certification requirements.
John Collins
En-Route
I haven't seen any documentation for a delay in the 5015 New production or 2017 retro-fit mandate for ADS-B in the EU. It only affects fixed wing aircraft with a weight over 5700 KG (12,500 Pounds) or those that have a TAS over 250 Kts.
A reference would be nice if you have one.
Edit: I found one, thanks for the heads up.
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Unit74
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Only folks not required to broadcast come 20/20 are airframes not certified with electrical systems.....read Cubs.
If an experimental has electrics, it must comply to be flown in the regulated airspace.
I have talked to the FAA, several avionics shops and a couple controllers. When I ask about a deferment, some laughed as they said not gonna happen. Towers are up and operational and more coming online weekly. I think we are close to 650 towers now in the system.
As such, I go in for my UAT next month. I am gritting my teeth at the $5k price tag, but come 2020 or there a abouts when I plan on upgrading to a 6 place plane, I will probably be able to get top dollar out of my Archer because it's AdSB in/out already. At least that's my educated guess.
If an experimental has electrics, it must comply to be flown in the regulated airspace.
I have talked to the FAA, several avionics shops and a couple controllers. When I ask about a deferment, some laughed as they said not gonna happen. Towers are up and operational and more coming online weekly. I think we are close to 650 towers now in the system.
As such, I go in for my UAT next month. I am gritting my teeth at the $5k price tag, but come 2020 or there a abouts when I plan on upgrading to a 6 place plane, I will probably be able to get top dollar out of my Archer because it's AdSB in/out already. At least that's my educated guess.
I think 2020 is a drop dead date. FAA granted one delay to AOPA which moved the date to 2020 I think FAA and Congress are anxious to get the program moving. FAA has promised Congress an ATC that has much lower salary and pension costs. ADS-B is the first of several steps to realize a significant reduction in personnel.
As long as you understand that 'top dollar' is a relative term and may mean that you can sell it for $20k instead of not at all, you have made a reasonable educated guess. If you believe that you will recoup your $5k you are mistaken. Fly a lot between now and then and get your $5k out of it in usage value.
Yep, the object is 'Free Flight' IFR, no 'system' required, no pilots either.
The issue is more likely whether the FAA is ready or not. Despite the "autonomous" nature of the system, I suspect there are still kinks to be worked out, rules to be made, op specs, to be modified, ground systems to be completed.
I doubt small fry part 91 compliance is even a blip on the that timeline.
Everybody urinated and moaned when we had to go around and put mode C in our planes (for those of us around long enough), but after the grumbling life went on. I don't see this as much different.
I doubt small fry part 91 compliance is even a blip on the that timeline.
Everybody urinated and moaned when we had to go around and put mode C in our planes (for those of us around long enough), but after the grumbling life went on. I don't see this as much different.
I still find it astounding that radios are not required. If there is one piece of collision avoidance and position reporting equipment that should be required, it should be a radio and its required use.
Buggsy2
Pre-Flight
Yep.
Nope. There will be some change, perhaps watered down.
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Unit74
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Correct....I will not get money out of it. But, as well equipped as I am, plus adsb , if you are in the market, I believe I will sell much quicker because more than likely you can actually fly my plane home that day vs a noncompliant aircraft.
Christ, you sound like Jay Honeck.
Jay Honeck
Touchdown! Greaser!
My feelings on radios have evolved over the years. I used to be in the "Why isn't a radio mandatory?" camp.
Now, as I've grown more weary of the ever tightening regulatory noose on everything in our lives, I'm in the "Nothing should be mandated." camp.
That said, I think you're stupid to not have and use a radio.
I believe few things should be mandated, but a radio isn't one. I think it is unfair to other pilots to land at an untowered airport without a radio, which places another plane and it's occupants at substantial increased risk. If you don't want a transponder, fine, but hearing where others are at and letting others know your location and intentions should not be optional for anything in our airspace near a public airport. This is no different than transponder requirements in other airspace to provide separation for other aircraft. I shouldn't have to accept the liability for injury because someone else is willing to be reckless.
If you are only flying from private grass strips and never visit a public airport, then u should be free to do whatever.
If you are only flying from private grass strips and never visit a public airport, then u should be free to do whatever.
Unit74
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I would agree with the radio requirement to land at any public airfield. Do what you want on your own private strip. But join the team and come on in for the big win everywhere else. Not talking on the radio is unsafe and irresponsible in my opinion.
Yes. And there is part of the rub too. An aircraft is not fenced into a grass strip. It can be flown anywhere. Why the resistance to a cheap peace of gear that is without argument a huge step toward safety?
It's like fighting against cars having brakes.
kyleb
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Drake the Outlaw
How many midairs has your radio prevented?
I've been flying in the Atlanta area (i.e. busy airspace) for 20 years and cannot think of a single time when a radio made the difference in avoiding a midair fender bender.
Sierra Victor
Pre-takeoff checklist
Been quite a few instances in the backcountry that radio comms could have helped prevent an accident.
First one that comes to mind is the accident that occurred summer of '13 w/a twin and high wing landing at Johnson Creek during the fly in.
Sometimes it's just as simple as position reporting that can prevent a life lost.
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More than a few, especially training out of Long Beach in the early 90s. Lots of times I heard a call and looked finding conflicting traffic.
Grum.Man
En-Route
I don't feel a radio should be required. People got along just fine for years without them. Now I for one wouldn't want to fly around without one but more power to those that do. If proper protocols are followed there should be no trouble identifying and avoiding traffic.
I also like the fact that a transponder and this whole ADS-B thing isn't required either. If you want to be off the grid, just avoid the airspace it's required in.
I also like the fact that a transponder and this whole ADS-B thing isn't required either. If you want to be off the grid, just avoid the airspace it's required in.
Unit74
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I can see where some folks who just want to remain at 2500 ft and spin doughnuts around the corn field will say no adsb/no radio and would fight it. It really wouldn't do much for them at all.
But like the guy who tried to take off facing me while I'm on short final, no radio is dangerous. Like flying with blinders on, see and avoid is like driving with no seatbelt. Odds are you won't crash, but if you do it will save your live. A radio provides situational awareness not only for you, but any traffic in the area monitoring that geos CTAF.
Anyone who argues that is not in touch with reality. I would guess they also keep a large supply of tin foil.
But like the guy who tried to take off facing me while I'm on short final, no radio is dangerous. Like flying with blinders on, see and avoid is like driving with no seatbelt. Odds are you won't crash, but if you do it will save your live. A radio provides situational awareness not only for you, but any traffic in the area monitoring that geos CTAF.
Anyone who argues that is not in touch with reality. I would guess they also keep a large supply of tin foil.
rwellner98
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rw2
In the past 24 hours, only one. I was IFR descending through the clouds, he was VFR below the deck. We were both operating legally to the regs. We came within a thousand feet or so of each other because we were both on the com, were able to quickly spot one another and make necessary adjustments.
A thousand feet is like ten miles flying VFR around busy Unicom fields.
rwellner98
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rw2
Exactly.
Neal Howard
Cleared for Takeoff
It was a Piper Arrow and a Piper Tri-Pacer. Both had radios tuned to 122.9 as well, and there's at least one news article out there that says the Tri-Pacer pilot heard a radio call immediately before the collision. This one looks like the classic low-wing on top, high-wing on bottom landing at the same time, the low-wing not seeing the airplane he's landing on top of.
What would've likely helped more in this particular situation, IMHO, would've been to have an "Air Boss" with a handheld radio on the ground stationed at the approach end of the runway to advise when too many aircraft are on short final at the same time during these high-traffic fly-ins held there.
BTW, JC is a beautiful place to fly into, the Idaho Division of Aeronautics has come up with a new set of recommended arrival and reporting point procedures that if everyone flying into there would follow, would go a long way towards help preventing such a tragedy from recurring.
https://idahoaviation.com/plans/JC SOP Revision 14-01 to send (3).pdf
Neal Howard
Cleared for Takeoff
Nope, wasn't me. I've been all over Arkansas but never been to Pine Bluff.
There are tons of RVs painted similar red & white with checkerboard tails. The first year I took this one to Oshkosh in 2012, I'd guessed that it would be somewhat but not completely unique of a paint scheme parked in HBC. Boy was I wrong. Just within a few rows of my own parking spot/campsite, I counted no fewer than fourteen RV-6's, 7's, and 9's that were all painted red over white with black & white checkerboard tails.
Well, that's what I'm saying, that radios should be required in airspace around any public airport, that should be the protocol. Outside of that airspace then feel free for whatever.
Yes, right now they can, but if a radio is required to land at a public airport than they won't land there. I'm not asking for a requirement to have a radio to fly, just to use public airport and their surrounding airspace.
cowman
Final Approach
I was looking at the details of the mandate the other day and I don't know that I absolutely need it.
I don't fly near the coast, my airplane doesn't go much above 10,000', and I can generally avoid class C or B airspace and still go anywhere I need to. If it's going to be the same 30-mile rule for class B that they use for mode C transponders that would be a little more tricky but I can manage.
That said I already have a WAAS garmin 430 so as I understand it all I'd need to do is get a new compliant transponder... which is what $2-3k? Might as well for that price... especially if it would give me traffic/weather right on the 430.
I expect those who really need to go above 10,000 a lot are probably at a level were a few thousand dollars into the airplane isn't that huge.... that just leaves a minority of private pilots who need to get into class C or B... or fly that high.. or fly near a coast. I'm sure there are quite a few, but I doubt enough that the FAA will be successfully pushed into delaying.
I don't fly near the coast, my airplane doesn't go much above 10,000', and I can generally avoid class C or B airspace and still go anywhere I need to. If it's going to be the same 30-mile rule for class B that they use for mode C transponders that would be a little more tricky but I can manage.
That said I already have a WAAS garmin 430 so as I understand it all I'd need to do is get a new compliant transponder... which is what $2-3k? Might as well for that price... especially if it would give me traffic/weather right on the 430.
I expect those who really need to go above 10,000 a lot are probably at a level were a few thousand dollars into the airplane isn't that huge.... that just leaves a minority of private pilots who need to get into class C or B... or fly that high.. or fly near a coast. I'm sure there are quite a few, but I doubt enough that the FAA will be successfully pushed into delaying.
What do you believe the last year that planes without radios outnumbered planes with radios?
In this day and age there is no reason not to have a com radio, they are small, light, and inexpensive and simple electric systems to power them are not outrageous. A simple battery that you charge between flights will do fine.
Can you do without? Sure, for the most part, but you also leave a vast support network unable to assist you when things go wrong. The one thing I tend to notice about rugged individualists is they turn into needy ******* when things start getting real.
Unit74
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Unit74
The GDL 88 is your looking for and installed you are looking at $5k ish min. It's not just a drop in box. It ties into the gps, audio panel, transponder and the encoder. Requires another antenna on the belly, or two if you want the diversity option.
Also, if you encoder doesn't have an unmuted connection, you will need a new one as well for a few more hundred.
Getting a G tx330ES will not give you weather. It's only aDSB out.