Will be PPL training in a 150. Kneeboard?

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topdog91

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topdog91
As per title really. I read a lot of people saying enthusiastic students like me buy kneeboards then they don't get used. I've also read on a 150 they can get in the way when it's time to flare. ;)

I'm not getting into smartphones / tablets because as a new student I'll have to learn to do things the manual way anyway, and I guess the electronic devices will be a distraction.

But... To kneeboard or not to kneeboard? If not, just writing pad and pen?
 
I used a kneeboard in the 150, even with an ipad on top I never had a problem. For VFR PPL you dont need a trifold or bifold or any of that nonsense. Just a plain old kneeboard with a clip on top and reference information on it is more than sufficient.
 
They can help to keep things organized but probably not necessary until the XC phase of your training. I didn't have any issues with a kneeboard in a 152 so you **should** be ok in a 150.

Good luck with your training!
 
Thanks all. I was gonna say, the reference information must be quite useful to have to hand... All those numbers. ;)

At what point *does* the tri/bifold stuff become useful?
 
topperdoggle said:
As per title really. I read a lot of people saying enthusiastic students like me buy kneeboards then they don't get used. I've also read on a 150 they can get in the way when it's time to flare. ;)

I'm not getting into smartphones / tablets because as a new student I'll have to learn to do things the manual way anyway, and I guess the electronic devices will be a distraction.

But... To kneeboard or not to kneeboard? If not, just writing pad and pen?
Click to expand...

You definitely want a small kneeboard....this one is fantastic -
FlyBoys FB1316 KneeBoard with Eyelets & Clipboard http://tinyurl.com/ogzfu9y

The aluminum ones are stiff and the straps come off. This one is made from kevlar, and has a large velcro strap that keeps it snug. It has a clip and plenty of places to stash a pen. You can preprint flight information like frequencies, sample radio calls etc. or just attach some paper.
 
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topperdoggle said:
Thanks all. I was gonna say, the reference information must be quite useful to have to hand... All those numbers. ;)

At what point *does* the tri/bifold stuff become useful?
Click to expand...


IFR, Multi, Long Long Long XCs

More maps, approach plates, longer checklists, longer clearances, more cockpit

I still vote the aluminum one is best.
 
Small clipboard from Staples will work. I've never been a fan of the bi/tri folds. Way too bulky IMO. I just tell my students to get a small clipboard.
 
As you've already figured out you're not going to be doing that much with it. I bought the simple small aluminum kneeboard with all those light gun signal, vfr cruise and cloud clearance doo-dads embossed on the plate back in the early 70's. You don't have to always use it as a kneeboard either, stick it in the pocket behind the instructors seat or lay it on top of the panel.

The super complicated tri-fold ones? No need for that because you're gonna end up with a tablet anyway.
 
If you insist on having one, make sure it incorporates the required (for many) the metal landing calculator.
 
jordane93 said:
Small clipboard from Staples will work. I've never been a fan of the bi/tri folds. Way too bulky IMO. I just tell my students to get a small clipboard.
Click to expand...

Just bought one of those small clipboards from Walmart for $1.67. I can customize it with all the "cheat" sheets I want, or need. Used one like this for years but got lost -- needed replacement.
 
Bought the small Vfr one when I started. Used thru my pp some. When I got ifr bought a ifr board. I write my clearence down on it still but that's about all. Both have handy references on them I think I've used couple times. Think my wife uses the Vfr board still, but I rarely fly with her and when I do I'm in back trying to sleep. The small aluminum ones are fine.
 
topperdoggle said:
Thanks all. I was gonna say, the reference information must be quite useful to have to hand... All those numbers. ;)

At what point *does* the tri/bifold stuff become useful?
Click to expand...

Never. I use a trifold 'cause that's what I picked up as a student. All I ever use it for is writing stuff down, and holding charts that could be done in many other ways.

In a 150 or 152, I can't use it. But I'm a fairly big guy. The seat must be all the way back, or I'm not going to fit at all.

A 172 needs the seat a little low or an extra notch back for full range of motion on the yoke, and it fits any old way in a 182.
 
KA550 said:
If you insist on having one, make sure it incorporates the required (for many) the metal landing calculator.
Click to expand...

Aw, come on - that's just mean. :nono:
 
I started from day 1 with a kneeboard. I bought yellow lined notepads and came up with a format I could quickly duplicate by hand for every flight that included hobbs time out/in/total, fuel/oil, com/nav freqs for dep/dest airports, runways +lengths and non-std patterns and an abbreviated nav log for x=countries.

I also pull the bottom edge of the top sheet free so the 2nd sheet could be used to copy weather from ATIS/AWOS, squawk codes and miscellaneous notes.
 
I find a blank notepad and a pen to be the most useful thing when I am flying.
I write everything down before hand that is static info.

Runway numbers, frequencies, elevations, pattern directions, etc.
I have never felt I lacked anything when flying locally or XC.
 
If you're going to use a kneeboard, I'd suggest the most bare-bones model possible. I've taught a lot of primary students with lap desks, trifolds, etc. It almost always turns out to be more of a distraction than anything else. Minimize your workload by keeping things as simple as possible.
 
I would recommend that small knee board. A 150/152 is a little crowded with two people up. If you have anything very big, it will get in the way. When I was using a sectional, I just folded it up so it showed where I was and where I was going. No board backup. The nav log was on the small knee board.
 
A lot of it depends on your own personal dimensions. I'm 6'1", 240, and I can't really use a knee board in a 172. Legs are too long and it just gets in the way. Someone a little smaller whose legs aren't at quite the same angle, or a little taller and can get further from the yoke might have better luck.
 
I'm 6'6" , taught in a 152 and used a simple aluminum vfr knee board with the clip up top to keep notes on. It was the same one I used as a student. Now 16 years later I'm using one just like it to keep my map handy (as in not blowing out the door) during helicopter training.

So yeah get a knee board. But follow the KISS method. At least thats my smelly opinion.

Good luck and have fun.
 
This is one of those things that will come with experience. As a student pilot, I dutifully strapped the thing to my leg. But I really didn't like it, and now I don't fly with anything strapped to my leg. Others are okay with it, fine by them. If I'm solo, everything is in the right seat. If my wife is along, the charts and flight plan are stashed on the side dash (or on her lap if she isn't sleeping) and the iPad and BadElf is on the floor.

Your cfi may (or may not) care how you organize your side of the cockpit. I would probably follow their suggestions, but in the end you will need to figure it out on your own what works and what doesn't.

After you get your ticket then you can experiment with what works best.
 
For PPL training...really?


Just have a sectional and checklist under your right leg and a watch of some sort, that's all you should need.


I have no idea what you're needing to write down so badly, you're not copying IFR clearances down or anything. When I fly IFR for work I just have a small legal pad and a pen, for VFR I don't bother with it.


You will find the higher time pilots have the least amount of crap in the cockpit.


For sub 300nm flights I just grab my headset and ipad, ipad lives in the back seat for VFR stuff and is just used to check weather NOTAMs if I overnight somewhere or something.


SixPapaCharlie said:
I find a blank notepad and a pen to be the most useful thing when I am flying.
I write everything down before hand that is static info.

Runway numbers, frequencies, elevations, pattern directions, etc.
I have never felt I lacked anything when flying locally or XC.
Click to expand...

Why are you spending time duplicating information?

All that info is clearly printed on your sectional.
 
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I am too tall for a kneeboard in a 152/172. Never ever needed one during my PPL anyway. Just not that much stuff to write down. When I started my instrument I transitioned to a SR22 and love having the room for the kneeboard.
 
I fly out of a delta airport. I've seen people use iPads for their scratchpad , but flying in Florida I've struggled to not let perspiration interfere with the screen and sensors of the ipad. I've also found it to be way too distracting when flying the plane to be fiddling with Foreflight beyond basic navigation/maps.

I've used the AFA kneeboard with a sterno notepad. I give myself a clean page when i get in the plane. I'll usually write down my script for ground clearance and have my pen ready in case i have any odd instructions across my airfield. We have a relatively complex airport in KPIE, at the time being a very low hour student pilot there was so many overwhelming things occuring, i found that writing things down helped me offload mental workload and also made my communications a little less stressful as i'd jot down shorthand of my scripts for landing and departure.

I use the pen to jot down ATIS/ASOS information and I don't know how you'd do flight following without notes.

I love my ipad , but i don't see myself ever flying without a kneeboard and a pen/paper. it's too easy to get lost in menu's and navigation on an ipad and distract from VFR flight. When things are bouncy and you need the weather information the most is the worst time to use the ipad.

That said, I find that the smaller kneeboard was more than sufficient for me to do not only my normal practice area flights, but also my cross country. During my preprations, i had small notes regarding each airport with quick ref for frequencies and anticipated runways. All of that was redundant with my xc flight plan paperwork, but my "system" is to keep anything critical and useful for the target airport on my little notepad to allow me the least amount of attention heads down in the cockpit.

in the end these are relatively cheap things to experiment with, but I'd definitely focus on whatever will keep your workload management most optimal.

(disclaimer, i'm a student pilot myself)
 
I'm with you, Mark. I use an iPad but still use old fashioned pen/paper for writing down freqs and clearances.
 
Early on I bought Sporty's cheapest kneeboard and now a decade later I still use it. It came with a free metal stick-on decal that I now see they sell for $7 or so, full of semi-useful information which you do not need to acquire. (If you can't remember the hemispheric altitude rule, or the phonetic alphabet, well then go for it!)
 
Student pilot here who "dutifully bought" a trifold kneeboard. Where I have gotten the most use out of it is note taking in flight. There is so much going on that is new for a student it is easy to forget things that you want to follow-up on after the flight. The note pad is great for this purpose. I also write down ahead of time the frequencies used at our airport. My instructor long ago memorized those but they are still a blur of numbers to me...again the notepad helps for this.

I hope you are not left handed like me! :)

Good luck with your decision.
 
I keep my kneeboard in my 150. Granted I don't wear it, but the clip is nice for holding the checklist and sectional and fits nicely on top of the panel. Also helps to hold your parking/camping sign flying in to Oshkosh.
 
I trained in a 152 and I carried and/or used a kneeboard throughout. This was 1995 and everything was done on paper. But you can put whatever you want on the kneeboard. I like 3M sticky pads (the larger format ones with lines) but those little yellow steno-sized pads are good too for scribbling down ATIS or whatever info.
 
In my opinion a simple knee board is an absolute must if you are flying anywhere away from your airport.
You need to write down frequencies, clearances, runways, etc.
That is the way it is in Southern California anyway.
 
For PP stuff, you don't really have much need, not much you need to write down, and you aren't working with approach plates and such. Pretty much all the info you need is on your chart.
 
Buy a throw over yoke type bonanza and you get a neat little clipboard that attaches to the yoke.
 
My advice is to go to an office store and buy a metal clipboard. Then print little tables with the crap you want and tape them onto the clipboard. Light gun signals, local freqs, gal / liter conversion, VFR cloud clearance, whatever you forget. That way you have what you need, have a place to write, and can stow it when not needed on the side of the seat.
 
I've got the Sporty's soft trifold and personally love it for XC. My own preprinted flight planner on the center clipboard (airport info, fuel/tank tracker, frequencies) and the side pockets are great for slipping my phone, checklist, pulse oximeter, spare pens, spare batteries, glasses, etc. and in a pinch my iPad. Kinda like a man purse I guess.

The club Archer I'm flying seems to have zero places to put anything within reach.
 
PP or Instrument there are plenty of things to write down especially if you fly in controlled airspace much.

And if flying a cross country bringing a copy of your flight plan is standard procedure.

And for night flying you can hang your red lens flashlight on it for quick access.

The investment is cheap. The biggest problem is finding one that you will want to wear and will last.
 
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Henning said:
For PP stuff, you don't really have much need, not much you need to write down, and you aren't working with approach plates and such. Pretty much all the info you need is on your chart.
Click to expand...
Depending on the airport, how about:
Taxi clearance
Departure clearance/altitude restrictions
Altimeter setting (if not in ATIS)
Squawk code

Some people like to enter the last two into the altimeter setting and squawk into the altimeter and transponder; my work flow is such that I write them down with the other information I am getting the same time.

None of those listed above are on the chart. Small airports, not much to write down. Class B, C or D....there is a bit to write down.
 
Depends on the airport, not even just class B/C/D.

Monterey (Class C) has very simple procedures and simple taxiways. Not much more than a squawk code needed. Departure procedure is no turns before the highway (really, that's it!).

Concord (Class D) is a confusing maze with parallel runways almost always in use, frequent opposite-direction IFR arrivals, and if you don't write down your taxi clearance, you WILL bust it.
 
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