Wilderness Survival

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

I always wear my survival vest while flying. The items you carry in the aircraft are useless if you need to escape from a sinking / burning airplane.

I carry quite a lot of items, but, as surprising as it may sound, the most essential devices are, in my opinion, the following:

1. Personal Locator Beacon - 406 MHz PLB. With this light, small and inexpensive beacon, the COSPAS SARSAT satellites will locate you in under one hour, greatly enhancing your survival chances.

2. Waterproof Garmin GPS.

3. VHF Transceiver with spare battery.

On top of the above, I also carry (in the survival vest):

- Water Purification Tablets
- Pocket Water-Filter
- LED Torch (water proof-high intensity)
- Foldable Water Bag (5 Liters)
- Spare batteries
- ACR Emergency Strobe (waterproof)
- Foldable Cap
- Survival Sleeping Bag (AMK Thermolite)
- Spare socks (sealed in waterproof pack)
- Hand Warmers Packs X 4
- Water Canteen (Camel Back )
- Bandana
- Survival Matches in Waterproof Container
- Lighter
- Signalling Mirror (USAF Type)
- Leatherman Survival Tool
- Survival Knife
- 20 M of parachute cord
- Gill Fishing Net
- Fishing Kit in Sealed Container
- Magnesium Fire Starter
- Foldable Rain Poncho
- Compass
- Mosquito Repellent
- Sun Blocker
- FOX 40 Whistle
- Paper & Pencil
- First Aid Kit including:
a. Military Type Tourniquet (Silicone Rubber - IDF Type)
b. Military Type Bloodstopper Dressing
c. SAM Splint
d. Neomycin Ointment
e. Scalpel Blade
f. Iodine Solution
g. Syringe + Needles (X 3)
h. Medications
i. Gauze Pads (4"x4")
j. Surgical tape
k. Band Aids
l. Kerlix Gauze Roll

I know that the above list is fairly extensive but, like Benjamin Franklin said: " In failing to prepare you are preparing to fail".

I guess that my SAR training is one of the reasons I carry all that kit...

Wow - that is a pretty extensive list, but every single one of those is useful. If you lived through the crash, I think you'd be fine with that list.

I keep adding more to this thread, but there are two other things that seem common sense to me, but are easily overlooked - footwear and clothing.

If you're going to be flying in a remote/rugged area, footwear is important - you don't want to be wearing flipflops. So a good pair of waterproof boots or trail shoes are important. Also, if there's a fire, a pair of leather boots will hold up a lot better than tennis shoes (also goes for clothing - don't wear a synthetic base layer, it will melt to your skin).

Clothing - wear something bright and visible. What good is a camo jacket going to do you if you're trying to be spotted?

 

[Everskyward]

If you lived through the crash, I think you'd be fine with that list.

He would live through the crash. All that stuff he's wearing would protect him, much like bubble wrap packaging.

 

[Danos]

- you don't want to be wearing flipflops.

Have you ever tried taxiing in flip flops? Me neither.

 

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

Have you ever tried taxiing in flip flops? Me neither.

Heck no. I learned about flipflops and pedals courtesy of a manual transmission - it causes some real problems. It can be done, but there's a significant risk that your foot will get stuck while the pedal is depressed.

Sounds like real fun whilst taxiing or landing in a crosswind.

 

[ejensen]

I've posted this NTSB report before but it does illustrate several of the points were talking about. Stay with the wreck, don't expect to get anything out of the back, etc.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=SEA04GA192&rpt=fa

This section show the difference in clothing:

SURVIVAL ASPECTS

The right middle seat passenger (female survivor) reported that after the airplane stopped moving, she was able to release her lap belt, open the door and get out. When she exited the plane, there were flames 15 feet tall coming out of the front of the airplane. She heard the left middle seat passenger (male survivor) calling and went back and helped him free his foot and get out of the airplane. She looked back at the rear seat passenger and saw that she had blood on her face and was not moving or talking. She attempted to pull the rear passenger out of the airplane, but her seat belt was still fastened and she was unable to move her before the entire airplane was engulfed in flames. The survivor noticed that the right front seat passenger was out of the airplane laying on the ground. The front passenger told her that the pilot had unbuckled his seat belt and pushed him out of the airplane. The pilot did not get out of the airplane.

The male survivor reported that after the airplane stopped moving, he unbuckled his lap belt and then realized his right foot was caught underneath the seat in front of him. The female survivor helped him free his foot and he got out of the airplane. When he got out, the entire airplane was on fire and the front passenger was out of the airplane laying on the ground.

The survivors reported that all their gear, including foul-weather clothing, food, sleeping bags and a satellite telephone, remained in the airplane and was destroyed in the fire. After getting out of the airplane, they had only the clothes they were wearing for the flight. The female survivor reported that she was wearing "hiking boots, a pair of black Carhartts, a capilene T-shirt and a hooded sweatshirt." Her clothes were not significantly fire damaged. She had burns on her hands and a back injury. The male survivor reported that he was wearing two thin polypropylene shirts, wool pants and hiking boots. His shirts and pants were completely burned away in the front. He had burns on his face, hands and chest and a back injury. According to the female survivor, the front passenger was wearing an undershirt, a button-down shirt and a Nomex jacket, jeans and hiking boots. His jeans were burned away from the thigh down, but the Nomex jacket was undamaged. He had a broken leg and burn injuries to his face, hands and legs.

The right front seat passenger succumbed to his injuries the morning after the accident. At that time, the two survivors decided to depart the site for lower elevation due to extreme cold and precipitation.

 

[tlglenn]

Another good reason to try to stay with the aircraft:

The Deputy Coroner for Flathead County inspected the scene and announced that all five occupants were fatally injured. The ground search was suspended. Approximately 1430 on September 22, 2004, the two survivors walked out of the Tunnel Creek drainage.

 

[smoore]

I also want to see Alon's vest. How much does it weigh? That's a lot of stuff but it all looks lightweight barring the knife, leatherman and extensive FA kit.

Looking over his FA kit makes me want to go take a FA course. I doubt I'd know how to use most of that stuff effectively.

 

[Armageddon Aviator]

Here's the famous vest...

It's a replica of the SRU-21/P USAF survival vest.

The advantages:

- Mesh fabric (ventilated)
- Adjustable
- Carries quite a lot of items

The shortcomings:

- Not Nomex (couldn't find the original USAF vest)
- Bulging pouches are not very convenient
- No Floatation device
- Pouches are not specifically designed for the items I carry

I would like to acquire an Israeli Air Force survival vest (much better design) but they are very expensive (around 700 $).
They are very rugged, made of Nomex and include a floatation device.

Adam, you are totally right about the fishing apparatus..totally useless in Israel
It is still stuck in the vest from my days as a flight medic in West Africa.

In any case, it is very difficult to get lost in Israel...the country is tiny, all flights require a flight plan and all flights get mandatory flight following...

 

[Tom-D]

Flying in the lower 48, in reality how many places can you fly that you are not within gliding distance of a road or civilation of some sorts.

The best equipment you can have is your head. use it to fly the aircraft all the way into the smoking hole, your job as pilot is to survive the accident. If you don't survive the accident all the equipment will not do you any good. and having all that weight in the baggage compartment might be the reason yuo didn't.

Your best plan of survival is to not fly junk aircraft.

 

[AirBaker]

Flying in the lower 48, in reality how many places can you fly that you are not within gliding distance of a road or civilation of some sorts.

The best equipment you can have is your head. use it to fly the aircraft all the way into the smoking hole, your job as pilot is to survive the accident. If you don't survive the accident all the equipment will not do you any good. and having all that weight in the baggage compartment might be the reason yuo didn't.

Your best plan of survival is to not fly junk aircraft.

I'm with you on this one.

 

[Armageddon Aviator]

Flying in the lower 48, in reality how many places can you fly that you are not within gliding distance of a road or civilation of some sorts.

The best equipment you can have is your head. use it to fly the aircraft all the way into the smoking hole, your job as pilot is to survive the accident. If you don't survive the accident all the equipment will not do you any good. and having all that weight in the baggage compartment might be the reason yuo didn't.

Your best plan of survival is to not fly junk aircraft.

Tell that to Steve Fossett...

 

[ejensen]

Flying in the lower 48, in reality how many places can you fly that you are not within gliding distance of a road or civilation of some sorts.

The best equipment you can have is your head. use it to fly the aircraft all the way into the smoking hole, your job as pilot is to survive the accident. If you don't survive the accident all the equipment will not do you any good. and having all that weight in the baggage compartment might be the reason yuo didn't.

Your best plan of survival is to not fly junk aircraft.

Quite a few unless you really go out of your way.

The rest I agree totally with.

 

[Tom-D]

Tell that to Steve Fossett...

Fossett probably isn't in the search area, If you are looking for a needle in a hay stack start with the right hay stack.

There are many places in the search area that you could land a small aircraft and fly it away again, and Fossett was good enought to do just that. So there is more to the fossett event than a simple in flight emergency.

 

[Tom-D]

Quite a few unless you really go out of your way.

The rest I agree totally with.

Not as many as this thread suggests. unless you are flying the canyons of the far west mountains, even then you'll find a lot of cabins, forest service roads, etc.

Buddy of mine landed his super cub on a forest service road while hunting, and 2 hunters called the 911 number and told the operator there was a plane crash, the rescue parts was really POed when they found the pilot setting on the tire having his lunch. The rescue agency tried to get him to pay the bill for the services, he refused, saying that he had not called them, nor did they rescue him.

 

[Missa]

Oh yeah, don't forget to bring a towel.

Diana learned that one on her summer big x-country adventure!

 

[Obi Heed Kenobi]

...The rescue agency tried to get him to pay the bill for the services, he refused, saying that he had not called them, nor did they rescue him.

Not expressing any view on whether you should or should not have to pay such a bill, but I've always wondered about it.

As an extreme, what happens when I'm lost in the mountains and someone (assume I didn't ask them to) calls for a rescue. What happens when rescuers find me and I say "dudes, I didn't call you, get lost." And then I follow their tracks out in the snow?

 

[AdamZ]

Flying in the lower 48, in reality how many places can you fly that you are not within gliding distance of a road or civilation of some sorts.

The best equipment you can have is your head. use it to fly the aircraft all the way into the smoking hole, your job as pilot is to survive the accident. If you don't survive the accident all the equipment will not do you any good. and having all that weight in the baggage compartment might be the reason yuo didn't.

Your best plan of survival is to not fly junk aircraft.

Well your correct about the need to 'Fly the Plane' before all else. And around where I live there'd be a large choice of restauraunts to eat at if you had a forced landing but I'll tell you on my flight to Gastons in 2006 I flew over whole lot of Nuthin in West Virginia. Nuthin for miles and mile and miles and that dosent even compare to out west.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

The RV list did a group purchase on the Cody Lundin book '98.6 Degrees--The Art of Keeping Your A$$ Alive!', and I got a copy. Great book. Read it, and it lives in my flight bag.

http://www.amazon.com/98-6-Degrees-...6716427?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1189736625&sr=8-2

 

[Tom-D]

Well your correct about the need to 'Fly the Plane' before all else. And around where I live there'd be a large choice of restauraunts to eat at if you had a forced landing but I'll tell you on my flight to Gastons in 2006 I flew over whole lot of Nuthin in West Virginia. Nuthin for miles and mile and miles and that dosent even compare to out west.

I have flown all over the west, and when you do you will see that the most traveled VFR routes are over valleys and mountain passes, that are well traveled on the ground too.

But you are right, we have states that have parks bigger than Va.

 

[Tom-D]

For those who think that the west has a great amount of wilderness under your wings during flight should study the picture, see if you can fine civilization.

 

[jesse]

There are plenty of places in the United States where you can crash and no one will be finding you for a very long time. Just because you can see something from the air doesn't mean that they'll be able to see you. How far can you see from the road in some uncivilized areas? About 20 feet. Crash 40 feet from that road and no one will be seeing you. Crash a mile away. 10 miles away. That's not very far from the air--but it's a helluva long ways into areas that have no roads or people walking through them.

Get up to areas like 6Y9 in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan and there are plenty of areas where you could land dart into without anyone having the slightest clue.

 

[jesse]

I have flown all over the west, and when you do you will see that the most traveled VFR routes are over valleys and mountain passes, that are well traveled on the ground too.

But you are right, we have states that have parks bigger than Va.

Tell that to the six uncharted crashes that have been found so far in the Steve Fossett search.
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/13/fossett/index.html#cnnSTCText

 

[AirBaker]

So then I'd argue the first part of survival training be flight planning.

My most frequent route is San Jose - Bullhead City. (RHV - PMD - IFP). You can shave off about 10 minutes from the flight by cutting the corner. This does put you over the south end of the Sierras and potentially could put you in un-inhabited territory.

Don't cut the corner and you're following major freeways the whole way.


The other route would be to fly over the Sierra's through Mammoth. Not as populated, but there are still folks out there.

 

[Missa]

So then I'd argue the first part of survival training be flight planning.

My most frequent route is San Jose - Bullhead City. (RHV - PMD - IFP). You can shave off about 10 minutes from the flight by cutting the corner. This does put you over the south end of the Sierras and potentially could put you in un-inhabited territory.

Don't cut the corner and you're following major freeways the whole way.


The other route would be to fly over the Sierra's through Mammoth. Not as populated, but there are still folks out there.

This is why I fly IFR out of PA to the west until I get to Ohio, get off I-80 between Williampsort and youngstown and it's like going into 6Y9.

IFR = I Follow Roads

Missa

 

[jcb8282]

I disagree. Steel wool is has a low enough resistance that you will get sufficient current from a 1.5 V battery to ignite it. A 9v battery would actually deliver less current (and current is what's needed here) due to it's higher internal resistance.

A 9V battery produces plenty of current in this application. Unless you've got a 6V Flashlight battery handy, the 9V is the easiest to short with steel wool. You also want really fine steel wool in order to get best results, not the heavy duty pot scrubber from the kitchen. If you take a piece of 00 (found at the hardware store in paint/stain supplies) and stretch it out, you will find the resistance across a few strands of it is pretty low.

 

[Bill]

oh also - www.equipped.org has a lot of good info

I don't carry much, but after reading some stuff, my Doug Ritter Benchmade lockback is always strapped to my belt (always, as in right now), and I put my pocket survival kit in my pocket, along with the cell phone, which I fully charge before each flight. I need to order a PLB to go on person as well.

In the back, I plan on throwing a few MRE's in the box, and rotate some bottled water in and out.

Now that I own an airplane, and can leave things in it, I need to decide what kinds of shelter materials need to reside 24/7 in the plane. The Mooney needs 50lbs in the baggage anyway to maintain CG with full tanks and just one or two aboard. May as well make that 50lbs count towards saving your rear.

 

[maddog52]

I heartily concur with the poster who said a knife is the most important piece of equipment you can have. I always flew with a leatherman tool, a swiss army knife with scissors and tweezers and at least one other folding or fixed blade knife. Still do when flying GA but the TSA frowns on commercial pilots carrying that stuff now. You can use a knife to build or aquire any thing you need.

Some of the best written resources on survival are the AF Pamphlet 64-5 Aircrew Survival that is available from the government printing office I believe and the Boy Scout Handbook. Both have excellent info in easy to understand language and illustrations.

I was lucky to have a Scout Master that had been a survival instructor for the USAF. By the time I actually got to USAF Survival School, it became one of the funnest camping trips I've ever been on. Survival kits are great but useful only if you carry it everytime. Large bulky ones get irritating and become burdisome to carry. Our Scout Master taught us to build our own compact ones that we could throw in a pack and forget about till needed. They fit into a small bandaid box or plastic soap dish. They had such items as:
bandaids
alchohol wipes
iodine tablets
folded square of heavy duty aluminum foil
50 ft fishing line
assorted fish hooks
3 ft snare wire (safety wire)
two single edge razor blades for deer snare
boullion cubes
waterproof strike anywhere matches
flint from a magnesium fire starter
steel wool
dryer lint
ziplock bags and if you pack really well a mylar survival blanket

Currently I carry one made of one of the single D cell life jacket flashlights that you can get from an Army/Navy store or one of the pilot cataogs.
Inside I stuffed pretty much everything from the previous list except for the alcohol wipes, boullion cubes, ziplock bags, and mylar blanket. Yes you can get it all in with the battery. It's got a clip you can use to put on your belt or strap of you flight bag next to the leatherman.

And as always, dress for egress. Dress like you would if you had to walk around in the woods for the night.


My two cents,

Mitch

 

[Tim]

Sigh

 

[maddog52]

Flying in the lower 48, in reality how many places can you fly that you are not within gliding distance of a road or civilation of some sorts.

I read a statistic in a book debunking the Bermuda Triangle that stated there are more aircraft missing over the CONUS than the Bermuda Triangle. And seeing the large tracts of isolated land in all sections of this country, I can beleive it. I never count being able to get to help in less than a day.

Mitch

 

[Tom-D]

I read a statistic in a book debunking the Bermuda Triangle that stated there are more aircraft missing over the CONUS than the Bermuda Triangle. And seeing the large tracts of isolated land in all sections of this country, I can beleive it. I never count being able to get to help in less than a day.

Mitch

I've flown all over the PNW including BC and the outside to Alaska. With very few exceptions there are places to land the aircraft and survive the accident and help will be close at hand.

50 miles east of here are the north Cascade Range, you cross at close to 10,000' at the altitude, you select a valley fly the aircraft down the valley and you'll find civliation before you run out of altitude.

If you are over flat land at 2500 AGL it may be a different case, then I'd stay over a road If I had no confidence in my aircraft.

I preach it all the time, If you own it, maintain it, If you rent, don't rent junk.

 

[Anthony]

I heartily concur with the poster who said a knife is the most important piece of equipment you can have. I always flew with a leatherman tool, a swiss army knife with scissors and tweezers and at least one other folding or fixed blade knife.
And as always, dress for egress. Dress like you would if you had to walk around in the woods for the night.

Good advice. I recommend the Fallkniven F1 survival knife. Its a compact, sturdy fixed blade that will take a lot of abuse.

 

[Armageddon Aviator]

I heartily concur with the poster who said a knife is the most important piece of equipment you can have. I always flew with a leatherman tool, a swiss army knife with scissors and tweezers and at least one other folding or fixed blade knife. Still do when flying GA but the TSA frowns on commercial pilots carrying that stuff now. You can use a knife to build or aquire any thing you need.

Some of the best written resources on survival are the AF Pamphlet 64-5 Aircrew Survival that is available from the government printing office I believe and the Boy Scout Handbook. Both have excellent info in easy to understand language and illustrations.

I was lucky to have a Scout Master that had been a survival instructor for the USAF. By the time I actually got to USAF Survival School, it became one of the funnest camping trips I've ever been on. Survival kits are great but useful only if you carry it everytime. Large bulky ones get irritating and become burdisome to carry. Our Scout Master taught us to build our own compact ones that we could throw in a pack and forget about till needed. They fit into a small bandaid box or plastic soap dish. They had such items as:
bandaids
alchohol wipes
iodine tablets
folded square of heavy duty aluminum foil
50 ft fishing line
assorted fish hooks
3 ft snare wire (safety wire)
two single edge razor blades for deer snare
boullion cubes
waterproof strike anywhere matches
flint from a magnesium fire starter
steel wool
dryer lint
ziplock bags and if you pack really well a mylar survival blanket

Currently I carry one made of one of the single D cell life jacket flashlights that you can get from an Army/Navy store or one of the pilot cataogs.
Inside I stuffed pretty much everything from the previous list except for the alcohol wipes, boullion cubes, ziplock bags, and mylar blanket. Yes you can get it all in with the battery. It's got a clip you can use to put on your belt or strap of you flight bag next to the leatherman.

And as always, dress for egress. Dress like you would if you had to walk around in the woods for the night.


My two cents,

Mitch

Hi Mitch,

It would be great if we could carry all we need to survive in a small pouch...

Unfortunately, I do not believe that it is possible.

Also, the alcohol wipes and the bandaid are not going to help you if you (or a passenger) survive a crash and need to treat life threatening injuries (profuse bleeding, amputation, fracture, etc...)

I always carry a medical kit that contains the following:

A) in the "First Aid" pocket of my survival vest:

- Israeli Army Silicone Tourniquet
- triangular Bandage
- Israeli Army Bloodstopper bandage
- Small Iodine Bottle
- 5 Gauze Pads (sterile 4X4)
- Kerlix Elastic Gauze Roll
- Codeine Tabs
- Analgesic / anti-pyretic pills
- Scalpel Blade
- Morphine 10 mg ampules (x2)
- 5 ml syringe

 

[Tristar]

I found it interesting that the ASA commercial oral guide actually has the question, "What do you have in the aircraft that can be used to aid in survival?" although the answers were not extensive in how, it did include: a. The compass will keep you going in one direction. b. Gasoline will help make a fire, C. Oil can be used for smoke signals. D Seat upolstery may be used to wrap around feet or hands. E Wiring may be used for tie strings.
F. The battery may be used to ignite fuel.

Most other oral guides I've run across only mentions whats required if past power off gliding distance over water.

 

[smoore]

Good advice. I recommend the Fallkniven F1 survival knife. Its a compact, sturdy fixed blade that will take a lot of abuse.

Hey, that's a nice little blade there! 3.75in might be a little long for a blade in your jurisdiction for daily carry, watch yer butt.

If we're going to recommend some, definitely check out the Benchmade 550HG "Griptillian" by Mel Pardue. Great knife, cuts steak as well as it cuts rope. Very stout blade that's a real PITA to sharpen but once you get the edge it stays for a LONG time. Blade length of 3.45in so it fits the "three and one half inches" rule that seems prevalent these days. The barrel lock (one hand open AND close) has never failed on me in four years of daily carry, through two knives (I lost one). I used to carry liner lock knives but had one fail on me to the tune of 12 stitches across two fingers. Doc said I was lucky to not need surgery. Never again.

Looking on the benchmade web site, I don't know why they changed to a round "opener hole" from the "eye shaped" hole my knife has. Pity, that.

Oh yeah, the clip even still works on my current knife of three years. Every day the thing is in my pocket on the job site. Most clips fail after about a year. This one opened up to about 2mm and has stayed there.

Buy your knives at an Army/Navy surplus store. $110 retail turns into $79.95 if you don't buy it in the mall.

(yes, I like knives)

 

[maddog52]

I've flown all over the PNW including BC and the outside to Alaska. With very few exceptions there are places to land the aircraft and survive the accident and help will be close at hand.

50 miles east of here are the north Cascade Range, you cross at close to 10,000' at the altitude, you select a valley fly the aircraft down the valley and you'll find civliation before you run out of altitude.

If you are over flat land at 2500 AGL it may be a different case, then I'd stay over a road If I had no confidence in my aircraft.

I preach it all the time, If you own it, maintain it, If you rent, don't rent junk.

I could see you being within gliding distance of help almost all the time if you were constantly cruising at 10,000 and following major lines of communications. However, there are still huge tracts of land all around this country that most GA aircraft would have no chance of gliding out of.
It doesn't matter how well maintained your aircraft is, or how well you flight plan, sometimes STUFF happens and it's often at the worst possible time. Preparing for the very real possibility of haveing to take care of ones self in the wilderness is part of being a good aviator in my opinion. It has nothing to do with the level of confidence in your machine.

Mitch

 

[maddog52]

Shoot, a fella could have a pretty good time in Vegas with all that stuff!

I love that seen. The original city was Dallas but they changed it due to sensitvity about the recent Kennedy assasination. A geat movie.

Mitch

 

[Tom-D]

I could see you being within gliding distance of help almost all the time if you were constantly cruising at 10,000 and following major lines of communications. However, there are still huge tracts of land all around this country that most GA aircraft would have no chance of gliding out of.
It doesn't matter how well maintained your aircraft is, or how well you flight plan, sometimes STUFF happens and it's often at the worst possible time. Preparing for the very real possibility of haveing to take care of ones self in the wilderness is part of being a good aviator in my opinion. It has nothing to do with the level of confidence in your machine.

Mitch

If you didn't have " confidence in your machine. " why would even think of entering one of thoes " huge tracts of land all around this country that most GA aircraft would have no chance of gliding out of. "

And I do go high, even in the flat lands.

 

[Sleek-Jet]

For those who think that the west has a great amount of wilderness under your wings during flight should study the picture, see if you can fine civilization.

Hite Marina... Lake Powell... And there is a landing strip just out of the picture frame...

However... Fly 15 minutes north or south from that point and you are easily 2 days walk from the nearest road, or more, in the event you land on top of one of the mesas. 400 foot shear cliffs are going to slow your progress.

It's not so much being close to civilization, as the terrain and enviroment.

 

[Cap'n Jack]

There are plenty of places in the United States where you can crash and no one will be finding you for a very long time. Just because you can see something from the air doesn't mean that they'll be able to see you. How far can you see from the road in some uncivilized areas? About 20 feet. Crash 40 feet from that road and no one will be seeing you. Crash a mile away. 10 miles away. That's not very far from the air--but it's a helluva long ways into areas that have no roads or people walking through them.

Get up to areas like 6Y9 in the Upper Peninsula of Michigan and there are plenty of areas where you could land dart into without anyone having the slightest clue.

Here's proof from today's news- a woman went off the road in an SUV and thay couldn't find her for 8 days- next to the road!

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/28/woman.found.ap/index.html

 

[wsuffa]

Here's proof from today's news- a woman went off the road in an SUV and thay couldn't find her for 8 days- next to the road!

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/09/28/woman.found.ap/index.html

There was one of those in DC a few weeks ago....

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/09/10/AR2007091002492.html