Wife wants me to get IR, but I'm not so sure

CCluck said:
Sorry, Glider Dude, I have no references which will bear scrutiny - I should have said "some of the many stats I have seen bandied about on this interweb, by persons purporting to have done actual research, suggest, to ME, that entering IMC may have some associated risks which do not ordinarily pertain to normal VFR operations".

I'm sure you can find these various discussions with a modicum of effort.
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I have read lots of books and articles over many years by people I respect, and haven't seen anything to even remotely support your statement.
If you mean IIMC/CFIT accidents, typically flown by VFR pilots into IMC and losing control and crashing, sure, there are lots of those, as well as of IFR ticket holders who are not current or proficient getting in over their heads.
But I have yet to see any statistics showing that a properly qualified and proficient IFR pilot, with a properly equipped and maintained airplane, is increasing his/her statistical risk by flying IMC while exercising his/her best judgment. If you have that kind of data, please share the link.
(Having done plenty of scud runs, I personally think that the opposite is true, but that's just based on my own personal experience.)
 
CCluck said:
My earliest posts to this thread predate my checkride for the IR by a few days .... I was pretty far along, and deeply invested in the training process when I made my initial comments .

Since then, I've passed the CR ( 2-10-2016 ) been annointed and made a few flights on IFR flight plans. This evening I deliberately declined an ATC offer of an alternate altitude to indulge my passengers fascination with seeing the innards of a cloud.

Otherwise, the same trip could've been done entirely VFR, albeit bumpier and slower. I don't discount the utility of the rating, and I spent an a..load of cash to get it - but the OP needn't be denigrated or brow-beaten if he chooses not to pursue it. That ten grand could buy a lot of avgas and motel rooms, right ?

In my experience ( limited to the states illustrated in my signature map ) with a modicum of flexibility, a pilot can go almost anyplace, in a reasonable time frame, without having to go into IMC. Said pilot may have to get real close to it, and sometimes wait out the weather for a bit, but they can get there, sooner or later .

This thread is about the OP and his situation - if he chooses to fly strictly VFR, he's in good company and can certainly enjoy a long and gratifying avocation.. there needn't be any stigma attached to staying away from IMC, and the stats suggest he's safer if he does.

And, to reiterate, there isn't any reason the OP can't train to a high level of skill without going the Full Monty -

( additional inflammatory comments deleted )
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Your comments caused me to go back and reread the whole thread again. I didn't find anyone criticizing the OP for not having an instrument rating. Quite the opposite actually. Most posters were encouraging him to get one, and congratulating him on having a great wife.

Yes, there were a few tongue in cheek comments which I interpreted as not very funny, but not critical either. Perhaps you took one of those comments differently than I did.

Your comments about the IR are true, even if I view them as a bit slanted. Yes, the fees to get it will buy a lot of avgas and hotel rooms. I find that those hotel rooms will add up if you want to actually go anywhere. That got old quickly as did calling work Monday AM and getting a day of vacation because I was in bum f___ nowhere.

It's much easier to keep to a schedule now, but certainly not 100% schedule. It's much easier to go across the country now instead of dodging benign cloud systems. My skills are much more respected by the non-pilot community whether that is deserved or not.

So, you're right, he can have a long productive aviator career without an IR. I happen to think he can have a longer, more productive aviator career with an IR. But that all depends on what HE wants to do with it.
 
retailguy said:
...My skills are much more respected by the non-pilot community whether that is deserved or not...
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I wasn't aware that the non-pilot community even knew what an instrument rating was!
 
http://www.swaviator.com/html/issueSO02/Hangar91002.html

The thread began with the OP stating his reservations about maintaining currency and proficiency, so he may not be in a position to exercise the advantages of the rating without some attendant additional risks.

However, the article linked here does indicate that having the rating will make him significantly less likely to suffer a stall/spin/ loss of control accident - that's great.

IR or not, I think labbadabba is already a better pilot for taking a realistic look at his situation and goals.

labbadabba, I'm sure you will enjoy flying in whatever fashion you choose to pursue it.
 
CCluck said:
We need to get the implied value judgement out of these discussions - really, does the word better have any relevance here ?

I'be got a friend that does aerobatics and can spot-land his taildragger biplane on a dime in a cow pasture but thinks San Antonio to Waco is an epic cross country and hasn't had a minute of simulated instrument time since his student days.

Another aquaintance routinely flys to the left coast IFR but says he has not done a 45 degree bank turn since his IR checkride and thinks 3500' is a short runway.

Who's the "better" pilot ? Both are well within their personal risk acceptance envelope and flying the missions they choose.
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I'll go with biplane guy. Loss of control is the most common reason behind Fatal GA crashes. Obviously IFR dude has let his stick and rudder skills erode.
 
Can the IR hurt you? No, you'll spend some time and money on it, but it can only make you a better pilot.

Is the instrument rating necessary to be a safe pilot? Obviously not. Some of the best pilots I know don't have instrument ratings, but they can fly airplanes in ways that some of us would only dream of.

When would I want an instrument rating?

1) If I was doing a lot of traveling over long distances. Finding nice weather is easy when you're home. Guaranteeing nice weather between ABC home airport, and XYZ airport halfway across the country can be quite a bit more difficult.

2) If I was doing a lot of night flying outside of my immediate local area. Sure, you can fly VFR at night. But, it seems like weather can sneak up on you a lot more easily at night than it does during the daytime hours. A few nights ago my region got socked in by fog rather unexpectedly. Low IFR conditions were reported at most of the local airports at some point during that evening… it would have been tough to be up as a VFR pilot during that night (granted, the fog didn't hit until after midnight, when most folks aren't flying anyway).

3) If I was routinely flying in marginal weather conditions. Enough said.


I have an instrument rating, but haven't been current in many years. My lack of instrument currency mostly stems from the fact that a took quite a few years off from flying, and have thus far been mostly doing flying that doesn't check any of the three boxes I listed above.

Still, I'm not unhappy in the least that I have the rating. I'm totally confident that I could survive an unintentional encounter with IMC conditions, even though I couldn't pass an instrument proficiency check without a little work at the present moment.

My wife and I would like to fly more trips in the future, and I have every intention of getting instrument current (and comfortable) if we start routinely traveling the country by small airplane.

Personally, I think your wife is being a bit unreasonable in her requirement that you get an instrument rating, but I'd be happy enough if my wife came to me and said: "honey, I really think you should spend more money on flying" (which is basically what she has apparently told you).

Final thought: if you decide to go for your IR, do yourself a favor and find the time to regularly fly. Like you, I never seem to have enough time to fly these days, and I don't complete nearly as many flights as I'd like to. But, Instrument skills are much easier to gain/keep if they are something you are doing 2-3 times per week, rather than once a month.
 
Coloradokevin said:
But, Instrument skills are much easier to gain/keep if they are something you are doing 2-3 times per week, rather than once a month.
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This is my situation, hence the trepidation. I think I can off-set some of the rust by flying my sim regularly (full cockpit with all the hardware) on PilotEdge. I may not always be legally current but my hope is my skills and my scan can be maintained in the event I get myself into trouble.

Thanks all for weighing in, I'll go ahead and pursue the IR with the knowledge that I'll have to be judicious with my future minimums until I can fly more frequently.
 
I agree, an instrument rating does make you a better pilot for sure. Everything you do while in IMC requires a higher level of skill. You develop better and more precise control inputs, you learn to anticipate how a plane will react to certain pitch and power settings, your radio communication and navigation skills are greatly improved and you learn to multi task during high workload situations. No matter how well you can fly the plane though, if you make bad choices then your skill level doesn't matter.
 
Illinois CFII said:
I agree, an instrument rating does make you a better pilot for sure. Everything you do while in IMC requires a higher level of skill. You develop better and more precise control inputs, you learn to anticipate how a plane will react to certain pitch and power settings, your radio communication and navigation skills are greatly improved and you learn to multi task during high workload situations. No matter how well you can fly the plane though, if you make bad choices then your skill level doesn't matter.
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First post. Welcome to POA!
 
But getting the IFR in many ways seems like the natural progression. I am doing IFR as we speak, but it just seemed like a logical extension given that I needed to get complex and HP in order to get insured in the plane available to me. So I am building hours, getting my IFR, and making the insurance company happy by building hours and getting a new rating.
 
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