Wife as First Officer?

N521MA

N521MA

Pre-takeoff checklist
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Feb 13, 2013
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FlyBoy
Hi everyone. As I am on "final approach" for my PPL check ride (if weather doesn't screw me again) I am seriously considering having my wife do the PPL this summer (she doesn't know this yet, but has a slight idea that its coming), while I will be working on IFR.

My reasoning: one PP in the cockpit is good, but having another pilot next to me that I can trust to watch me, help me and/or just really share the fun time would be priceless, I think.

On the other hand, I can teach her myself, at least all the basic stuff and ground, save a ton of money and only send her to my CFI when she is near her first solo time.

We own Archer III and I really wish and hope that in time (3/4 years) we'll be flying a bigger bird and a first officer in HP plane, possibly twin - would definitely make the trips easier and more fun. (Of course this this is wishful thinking at this point)

What do you think?
(My biggest concern is associated PPL cost vs benefit), since I am already there.


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why wouldn't YOU be the first officer?
 
I think you would have to have eaten of the insane root in order to even consider trying to teach your wife anything about flying. I stopped giving Fran training the day we got married almost 35 years ago. Don't try this at home -- leave it to a professional. You might get her enrolled in a PP ground school at the flight school/FBO or local college, but that's about it.

Other than that, I think it's a great idea to get her involved as long as she thinks it's her idea.
 
Everskyward said:
What does your wife think? :D
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She laughs when I bring it up and still not 100% comfortable with GA altogether. She flew with me 5 times so far, back seat only (CFI up front) and each flight she has been better and better for her, as she says.

But I also know her too well and 100% sure she will love flying an airplane, once she is ready. Question is does she need PPL or simply jut fly with me and learn a little on every flight that we do.


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Just realize you'll only get half the PIC time...if that! :D
 
N521MA said:
On the other hand, I can teach her myself, at least all the basic stuff and ground, save a ton of money and only send her to my CFI when she is near her first solo time.
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I don't like this idea. I would much prefer to see her learn from an instructor. Besides, what are you really saving?

Let's say she solos in 20 hours with an instructor, and 10 if you teach her first. So you're only saving 10 hours of instructor time. What's that? Maybe $500? The plane will fly either way, so that cost will be the same.
 
LDJones said:
Just realize you'll only get half the PIC time...if that! :D
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That is a very good point! I do have a goal to reach transport rating.


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my wife wants to take a few lessons just so she has a better understanding of fying, but has no desire to go all the way with it. Start her small.
 
So you must really like it when she tells you how you are taking the wrong way while driving the car.
 
EdFred said:
So you must really like it when she tells you how you are taking the wrong way while driving the car.
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This is definitely something I thought about. I do hate when she does that when I am driving, after 12 years marriage me bitching about her "speedy Gonzales" driving - she has stopped !!!

As far as her doing it in the plane - perhaps not such a bad idea to have another set of eyes and criticism to make YOU a better pilot or at least try to get to a point where she will have nothing to criticize ? Besides already flying with a CFI that picks on every little thing that isn't 100% percent - is already like driving/flying with a wife! :Rolf

Sometimes I feel my CFI is related to my wife !!!! LOL


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N521MA said:
I am seriously considering having my wife do the PPL this summer (she doesn't know this yet, but has a slight idea that its coming), while I will be working on IFR.
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That sounds pretty controlling. Do you order her to do other things to?

If not, why don't you ask her if she would like to learn to fly? Plenty of spouses are more than happy to help with tasks in the cockpit, but have no interest in getting their ticket.

Your ideas on "Teaching" her how to fly are not good for many reasons. If she wants to learn how to fly, she is best served learning from a professional that is not her husband.
 
N521MA said:
She laughs when I bring it up and still not 100% comfortable with GA altogether. She flew with me 5 times so far, back seat only (CFI up front) and each flight she has been better and better for her, as she says.

But I also know her too well and 100% sure she will love flying an airplane, once she is ready. Question is does she need PPL or simply jut fly with me and learn a little on every flight that we do.


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I love the idea.

My girl friend was a nervous flyer. And she got better each of the first few flights. She can't fly in the heat, still as she gets sick. However we had her take the pitch hitter training so she can use communications (follow vectors) and land. I'd recommend you begin with this...Take baby steps and then she can feel success early on with smaller projects.

From the Pitch hitter landing you can move to the solo and so on.

I agree with Capt Levy about trying to teach any family flying especially if one doesn't have a cfi but I think it perfectly safe for you to take her on the hamburger hops and let her help you with radio, charts and such. Although be careful with the charts, not to get her sick focusing inside the cockpit.
 
your wife will quickly realize what mine did when she terminated her lessons after 1 hour.

Spouse with license = co-driver

Spouse without license = admiral
 
My wife enjoys flying the plane sometimes from the right seat although right now she has no interest in actually obtaining a rating. That doesn't extend to landing but we've done some maneuvering together and she is definitely at the pinch hitter level (I am confident she could make an "everybody walks away" landing even if she bent the airplane). I'm not a CFI (yet.. maybe someday) and I would not want to try and teach anything more than the basics.

However, she is a PhD student and her interest in doing the actual flying does not match the time commitment to get a rating at this time. That doesn't prevent her from being a great "first officer" in the sense that she operates the Garmin 430 & transponder, writes down the ATIS/weather for me, looks for traffic, monitors or even flies the airplane if I need to deal with a task like writing down a clearance. If she does decide to get her PPL some day she will have a lot of experience with the knowledge and procedures part of flying. And even if I am a CFI by then I would still want her to get most of her formal instruction from someone else if she was going for a PPL.
 
I'm the captain in our plane, he can pretend he his but he knows ill always make the final calls. Granted we do split the flying 50/50, but I wouldn't want him to think of me as his first officer...

All joking aside, if you really want something like that, for now a pinch hitter course may be better. It's not like the archer is super complicated. She'd learn how to communicate and put it on the ground safely. I don't think if she got her ppl she would appreciate being called your first officer... That really wouldn't fly in my house (pun intended?)
 
N521MA said:
That is a very good point! I do have a goal to reach transport rating.
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Well, then the answer is easy....get your CFI! You can teach her to fly. She gets hours, you get hours. After she's rated, you treat every flight with her as instructional and you both get PIC. :)
 
Ron Levy said:
I think you would have to have eaten of the insane root in order to even consider trying to teach your wife anything about flying. . . Don't try this at home -- leave it to a professional.
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Well, it CAN be done. I started teaching my wife before we got married and finished several months after we got married. Not saying it was easy, but we got it done. :yes::D
 
Brad Z said:
That sounds pretty controlling. Do you order her to do other things to?
.
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Controlling? LOLOL
Let me answer your question like this: my wife is a professional auditor(CPA). If anyone has control in our family - it is certainly ain't me!!!! LOL

As far as training goes, if you look at the original post - I said basic stuff until she get near her solo and then off to CFI. I do not see a point in paying a CFI for teaching her how to start an aircraft, checklist, taxi, talk to ATC, read charts, WX briefings, learn ground school, learn instruments and its use, level flights and headings and perhaps even standard take off and nice long landings.

As far as getting to become a pilot - that is CFI's job.

Does that make sense?


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Why not offer her, as a gift, your support for her taking 10 hours of training towards the PPL with the best CFI you can find. Independent of whether she gets 'hooked' or not on the PPL, she will gain an irreplaceable amount of knowledge and skill that WILL positively apply to your flying together.

With her concurrence, buy a 10 hour package and then see where it goes.

Years ago, my wife took glider lessons and soloed. She didn't care to take it further but we shared years of glider racing and years of traveling together in airplanes. We really need to work on her current proficiency but we both know she can fly the plane in an emergency.

Whatever else she does, she's the most informed and effective co-pilot I could ever have.
 
Ron Levy said:
I think you would have to have eaten of the insane root in order to even consider trying to teach your wife anything about flying.
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I think this really depends on the relationship and the people involved. Generalizing from your own experience is not likely to lead to a good one size fits all answer. Even non-related CFIs and students don't always make a good match in the cockpit.

The important thing is to make sure you discuss it with your spouse/partner in detail on the ground first, and that you have a good trust relationship and no pressure.
 
Steve Foley said:
I don't like this idea. I would much prefer to see her learn from an instructor. Besides, what are you really saving?

Let's say she solos in 20 hours with an instructor, and 10 if you teach her first. So you're only saving 10 hours of instructor time. What's that? Maybe $500? The plane will fly either way, so that cost will be the same.
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I soloed in less than two hours logged.

But that was a while ago and in a real simple airplane (Cessna 120).
 
Steve Foley said:
Let's say she solos in 20 hours with an instructor, and 10 if you teach her first. So you're only saving 10 hours of instructor time. What's that? Maybe $500? The plane will fly either way, so that cost will be the same.
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As someone who once sold his plasma in order to fly, a statement like that seems astoundingly cavalier. I know our money is losing value every day, but $500 still ain't chicken feed.
 
Jay Honeck said:
As someone who once sold his plasma in order to fly, a statement like that seems astoundingly cavalier. I know our money is losing value every day, but $500 still ain't chicken feed.
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Sure but if one owns a class of airplane such as an Archer III one can either easily afford an outlay of 0.5AMU without hardly any pain, or they can't really afford the airplane.
 
Z06_Mir said:
All joking aside, if you really want something like that, for now a pinch hitter course may be better. It's not like the archer is super complicated. She'd learn how to communicate and put it on the ground safely. I don't think if she got her ppl she would appreciate being called your first officer... That really wouldn't fly in my house (pun intended?)
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When I got my ticket, I urged Mary to take the pinch hitter classes. After all, everything we loved was strapped in their car seats in the plane -- and we didn't want to put them at risk.

Every lesson started the same way: "Jay just died...". :D

My CFI buddy had to relearn how to fly from the left seat. After all, Mary would be in the right seat if I passed out, so why learn from any other position?

This course went well, and set the hook pretty firmly. A few years later, after we moved to Iowa, she went on to earn her ticket. We've split PIC time ever since, and it's wonderful. That was 14 years ago.

Having two pilots on board is great. The safety enhancement is remarkable and measurable.
 
LDJones said:
Well, then the answer is easy....get your CFI! You can teach her to fly.
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Greg's experience notwithstanding, my observation is that ends in disaster more often than success. When Fran was ready for her IR training, I got a pal at the airport to do it, with the provision that I'd teach his wife if she ever wanted a PP. YMMV, but don't say I didn't warn you.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Having two pilots on board is great. The safety enhancement is remarkable and measurable.
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That is awesome! Good for her and I'm glad she enjoys it. We did our PPLs at the same time, I took my ride June 6th and his was the 7th. I did my instrument ride last month, and his is coming up in a week. As we've gotten more advanced we've began to encounter flying differences. He wants to fly VFR no flight plan "In case he wants to detour and look at something" where I enjoy going IFR and having a plan. We are at two different ends of the spectrum, and it works for us. I'm there to plan and crunch numbers to make sure its extra extra safe, and he's there to go "really Miranda? It's a 5kt crosswind and I've seen you land in 20 or more. Don't over think it". We balance each other, and I think it gives us the best balance of safety and utility possible.
 
N521MA said:
As far as training goes, if you look at the original post - I said basic stuff until she get near her solo and then off to CFI. I do not see a point in paying a CFI for teaching her how to start an aircraft, checklist, taxi, talk to ATC, read charts, WX briefings, learn ground school, learn instruments and its use, level flights and headings and perhaps even standard take off and nice long landings.
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You may not see the point now, but when you become a CFI and have trained a few people, you will. For her sake as well as your marriage, please don't try that.
 
spinfire said:
I think this really depends on the relationship and the people involved. Generalizing from your own experience is not likely to lead to a good one size fits all answer. Even non-related CFIs and students don't always make a good match in the cockpit.
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While the last part is true, I'm "generalizing" from over forty years of watching lots of folks try this, not just me and Fran. It may work for some, but my experience as a CFI says that's the exception rather than the rule.
 
My wife would have a hard time learning to land. She closes her eyes before everyone of mine :yes:
 
As i am a mature pilot (64) my wife and i decided she do the pitch hitter course to give us that little bit of insurance in the event of me becoming incapacitated while flying.

Some doing the training she is much more relaxed now when we fly, and In addition she has reduced my workload by assisting with comms and navigation.
 
nddons said:
:D Been married for some time, right, Ron? That's great advice. I'm going on 30 years this November. :goofy:
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Ron Levy said:
Like they write on my medical charts: "Diagnosis: Married -- chronic, terminal."
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Newlyweds! We'll hit 40 years the end of July. Seriously, congratulations to both of you.

My wife has expressed exactly zero interest in learning to fly. I even got the video for the pinch hitter class years ago (VHS, that's how old it is). She hasn't even opened the shrink wrap. In the years I've been flying she has taken the controls twice. The first time she scared herself (I don't know how, she hadn't deviated from straight and level) and did better the second time.

That said, she's a fantastic navigator. She'll have the sectional open in her lab, doze off and then wake up, claim she hadn't been asleep and then put her finger right where she thinks we are. Usually better than the GPS in the panel could do. I think she knows what the state looks like from the air too well. I might have to try a different route some time and see how she does. :D
 
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