Why we monitor guard.

[Teller1900]

I know it's always a good idea to maintain a listening watch on guard. But with the requirement in the type of flying I do to also monitor company/FBO frequencies, check ahead for the weather, etc, we often don't have time or simply forget to pull up the guard frequency. But this week, I got a good reminder in why we do it, even if it increases workload a little bit.

So there we were, cruising along up in the flight levels, fat dumb and happy. We were out over western Colorado on our way to Napa, so the frequency was expectedly quiet. With little activity on the ATC frequencies, I bothered to put guard up on 2. And not a minute too soon.

It hadn't even been five minutes. We were talking amongst ourselves and fighting with an intermittently unresponsive A/C pack when I heard a very quiet "Company 173 [our callsign], American 123, how do you hear?"

Fortunately he repeated it three or four times, as it took me several seconds to figure out which radio he was transmitting on. As it turns out, he was transmitting on guard after another aircraft's attempt at a relay on the Denver Center frequency failed.

Thanks to the relay from American we quickly established communications with Salt Lake Center, and carried on without further incident. Turns out, since we were on a direct-to clearance and not an airway, Denver lost us sooner than he had expected. But, had we not had 21.5 up in the other radio, who knows how far we would have made it before realizing that Denver Center wasn't just quiet that day.

 

[gismo]

But, had we not had 21.5 up in the other radio, who knows how far we would have made it before realizing that Denver Center wasn't just quiet that day.

You mean like halfway across Wisconsin when your destination was Minneapolis?

I think I get dropped like that a few times each year but I've never had a problem getting back in touch. I do have a habit of making some sort of query if I haven't heard anything on the frequency in the last 15 minutes or so.

 

[Everskyward]

I have gotten that call on guard too, at least a few times. Most of the time it's because we flew out of range, but once it was because the #1 radio failed without any warning.

 

[Ted]

That has happened to me probably half a dozen times, for the same reason you said - I was on a direct route and center lost touch with me sooner than expected. This is especially true since I tend to fly at lower altitudes.

I stress to my students the importance of monitoring guard, and inevitably, whenever I do, that happens and the learn why it's important when we get a relay. That always makes me smile, because you learn the lesson far better when it happens to you for real.

 

[steingar]

I head an airplane crash once on the Guard channel. Very dramatic, and everybody was OK.

 

[denverpilot]

It's interesting if you think about it that out here in the West a lot of the Communications engineering effort was done to cover published routes, and lots of us are flying direct these days.

Low-altitude, it's pretty common to hear Center fading away or even more common to hear "RADAR contact lost".

 

[flyingron]

I heard a plane go in to the lake on GYY's tower frequency once. They were not OK and I don't care to ever hear that again.

I did hear a lost student pilot getting assistance from FSS on 121.5 (she ended up being OK) and that was kind of interesting.

 

[TangoWhiskey]

I'm surprised Center didn't have the AA flight try you first on the last frequency you'd been using with them, rather than Guard....

 

[kimberlyanne546]

I haven't been doing this.

Should private pilots on short flights monitor 121.5? Or only on cross country when getting flight following, or . . . ?

 

[mikea]

I haven't been doing this.

Should private pilots on short flights monitor 121.5? Or only on cross country when getting flight following, or . . . ?

Whenever you can. Monitoring guard is strongly recommended in the blanket TFR NOTAM.

I have to turn off monitoring the second radio because some glitch in my radio install gives me noise in my headset when I transmit on the second radio.

 

[vontresc]

I tend to have com2 on 121.5 on long XC flights, and when I'm not using it while flying IFR. Mainly for the same reason as Matt, but it may also save your butt if you come too close to a TFR. The Local AWACS will usually try to contact you on guard if you are getting close to busting a presidential TFR.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

I tend to have com2 on 121.5 on long XC flights, and when I'm not using it while flying IFR. Mainly for the same reason as Matt, but it may also save your butt if you come too close to a TFR. The Local AWACS will usually try to contact you on guard if you are getting close to busting a presidential TFR.

Very good information to know. Thank you.

 

[sba55]

We were out over western Colorado on our way to Napa, so the frequency was expectedly quiet.

This is all interesting, but more importantly, you went to KAPC without saying Hi?

 

[Lance F]

I've heard a plane being warned about being in Prohibited airspace. He apparently wasn't monitoring and probably got to meet an F16 up close and personal.

I've also been able to tell ATC about ELT's I've picked up while monitoring guard.

It's just a good habit to get into..

 

[kimberlyanne546]

This is all interesting, but more importantly, you went to KAPC without saying Hi?

Yes, when were you in Napa? It is very close to me.

 

[Teller1900]

You mean like halfway across Wisconsin when your destination was Minneapolis?

I think I get dropped like that a few times each year but I've never had a problem getting back in touch. I do have a habit of making some sort of query if I haven't heard anything on the frequency in the last 15 minutes or so.

HA! I'd like to think we wouldn't have gone that far with it, if for no other reason than that would have put me WAYYYY out over the water! I usually query, too, but this all happened within the 15-20 mins that it usually takes for silence to get my attention. Especially since we were messing around with other issues on the plane (real life distractions).

It's interesting if you think about it that out here in the West a lot of the Communications engineering effort was done to cover published routes, and lots of us are flying direct these days.

Low-altitude, it's pretty common to hear Center fading away or even more common to hear "RADAR contact lost".

Very true. I can probably count on both hands the number of times I lost radios in five years of flying out East when I wasn't either really low, or flying into a known outage. Out West, though, I seem to hear "Hey [so-and-so] can you try to relay to a [such-and-such] and get them to come up on my frequency" quite a lot.

I'm surprised Center didn't have the AA flight try you first on the last frequency you'd been using with them, rather than Guard....

They did. Well, Denver tried a different a/c on their frequency with no luck. The American flight I think was from the Salt Lake Freq we ended up on.

I haven't been doing this.

Should private pilots on short flights monitor 121.5? Or only on cross country when getting flight following, or . . . ?

As others have mentioned, it's never a bad idea.

This is all interesting, but more importantly, you went to KAPC without saying Hi?

Yes, when were you in Napa? It is very close to me.

Sorry Felix (and Kim), I guess I forgot you guys were near there! I've been at Bridgeford Flying Service once every trip or two (so about once, maybe twice a month) on average (gotta love the free wine)! We don't always stay for too long, but I've had a few overnights there. I'll try to get ahold of you guys next time if you want to come see the plane or grab a bite.

Is yours still the 530 number from way back when, Felix?

I've also been able to tell ATC about ELT's I've picked up while monitoring guard.

That's another big one. A few times I've been asked if we heard anything on guard by various controllers, and it's always a bit embarrassing when it takes me a while to respond, instead of having the freq in there already, like a good pilot should!

 

[kimberlyanne546]

Yes please contact me. I do work "normal" hours or longer, and Napa can be more than an hour away in traffic, and sometimes (yay) I have weekend POA flights.

But as a general rule, if you reach me in advance, I could be at the Napa airport / area by 7pm on a weekday and anytime on a weekend.

I'll PM you my contact information. It would be fun to meet a professional pilot from POA.

 

[jason]

Sorry Felix (and Kim), I guess I forgot you guys were near there! I've been at Bridgeford Flying Service once every trip or two (so about once, maybe twice a month) on average (gotta love the free wine)! We don't always stay for too long, but I've had a few overnights there. I'll try to get ahold of you guys next time if you want to come see the plane or grab a bite.

I hope at least 8 hours!

 

[kimberlyanne546]

PS - I'd love to see the plane and actually have some vacation days that will be "going away" at the end of this year.

I will "lose them" if I don't use them - so taking a day off when you know you'll be in Napa is another possible thing I could do.

 

[jesse]

PS - I'd love to see the plane and actually have some vacation days that will be "going away" at the end of this year.

I will "lose them" if I don't use them - so taking a day off when you know you'll be in Napa is another possible thing I could do.

I seriously doubt it is legal for your employer in California to have a "use it or lose it" vacation policy. Vacation is is a wage that was earned. They can't just steal it.

They can either pay it back to you if you don't use it - or they can have a "use it or we'll stop giving you additional vacation time".

 

[Teller1900]

Yes please contact me. I do work "normal" hours or longer, and Napa can be more than an hour away in traffic, and sometimes (yay) I have weekend POA flights.

But as a general rule, if you reach me in advance, I could be at the Napa airport / area by 7pm on a weekday and anytime on a weekend.

I'll PM you my contact information. It would be fun to meet a professional pilot from POA.

Awesome! What airports up there are within nominal range for you, cause we spend A LOT of time up in NorCal! Last week alone I spent one night in SJC and two in SFO.

As far as meeting a professional pilot...you should get Mari's number. I'm just some guy who happens to get paid to fly.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

I seriously doubt it is legal for your employer in California to have a "use it or lose it" vacation policy. Vacation is is a wage that was earned. They can't just steal it.

They can either pay it back to you if you don't use it - or they can have a "use it or we'll stop giving you additional vacation time".

I don't want to get into an argument online about it. Yes they can and do steal it. And there are no medical benefits. My current job is not the most generous employer.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

Awesome! What airports up there are within nominal range for you, cause we spend A LOT of time up in NorCal! Last week alone I spent one night in SJC and two in SFO.

As far as meeting a professional pilot...you should get Mari's number. I'm just some guy who happens to get paid to fly.

I'm flying with Mari next month in the 152. She's going to be my "passenger" apparently!

I'm honored.

I PM'ed you my phone number. SFO / SJC / Etc are all within reach of me, same times as Napa. Just google "Sausalito" and you can see I'm about 1 mile North of the Golden Gate Bridge in Marin County.

Looking forward to meeting you . . . . wherever / whenever. So happy to find POA people in CA finally.

 

[jesse]

I don't want to get into an argument online about it. Yes they can and do steal it. And there are no medical benefits. My current job is not the most generous employer.

If your employer is willfully violating the law you shouldn't let them stomp all over you. That issue can be handled. Tell them to pay you the vacation or let it remain as per Cali law. If they won't they aren't worth working for and you can file a wage claim with the division of labor and get your money. It's YOUR EARNED WAGE - not theirs. Don't let someone steal from you.

Right from the California Division of Labor http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/faq_vacation.htm

Q.
My employer's vacation policy provides that if I do not use all of my annual vacation entitlement by the end of the year, that I lose the unused balance. Is this legal?


A.
No, such a provision is not legal. In California, vacation pay is another form of wages which vests as it is earned (in this context, "vests" means you are invested or endowed with rights in the wages). Accordingly, a policy that provides for the forfeiture of vacation pay that is not used by a specified date ("use it or lose it") is an illegal policy under California law and will not be recognized by the Labor Commissioner.

 

[Skylane81E]

I tend to have com2 on 121.5 on long XC flights, and when I'm not using it while flying IFR. Mainly for the same reason as Matt, but it may also save your butt if you come too close to a TFR. The Local AWACS will usually try to contact you on guard if you are getting close to busting a presidential TFR.

Seeing the fine young men from the US Army Missle Command in my hangar all week ahead of the POTUS visit, I don't want to be TFR busting

 

[kimberlyanne546]

This will be a non-issue if I use all my days. I just requested two:

One next week (flying with POA pilot)

One next month (flying with Brian POA pilot)

Mari is on a weekend so I don't need time off. My other POA flight was at night after work so I didn't need time off.

Now I just need to come up with 7 more days' worth of things to do.

I am saving them in case I find an event / getaway that I need a week off to do.

Kimberly

 

[Teller1900]

I hope at least 8 hours!

Good catch. Normally the wine waits 'til home...unless it's a long overnight. Though I don't find wine to be quite as "quaffable" as some folks on here.

I'm flying with Mari next month in the 152. She's going to be my "passenger" apparently!

I'm honored.

I PM'ed you my phone number. SFO / SJC / Etc are all within reach of me, same times as Napa. Just google "Sausalito" and you can see I'm about 1 mile North of the Golden Gate Bridge in Marin County.

Looking forward to meeting you . . . . wherever / whenever. So happy to find POA people in CA finally.

Very cool, you guys will have fun! I'd love to take a ride around the bay, but maybe that will wait until you the 172 nailed down. At 6"3', me and 152s have never been friends (I think I still have the bruises to prove it).

 

[Skylane81E]

Whenever you can. Monitoring guard is strongly recommended in the blanket TFR NOTAM.

I have to turn off monitoring the second radio because some glitch in my radio install gives me noise in my headset when I transmit on the second radio.

I get feed back when transmitting on Com 1 some times when listening on Com 3 also.

 

[kimberlyanne546]

Good catch. Normally the wine waits 'til home...unless it's a long overnight. Though I don't find wine to be quite as "quaffable" as some folks on here.



Very cool, you guys will have fun! I'd love to take a ride around the bay, but maybe that will wait until you the 172 nailed down. At 6"3', me and 152s have never been friends (I think I still have the bruises to prove it).

I just took a 6 foot tall guy, between 200 - 300lbs, for a night Bay Tour in the 172.

So no need to wait, it is nailed down.

 

[sba55]

Sorry Felix (and Kim), I guess I forgot you guys were near there! I've been at Bridgeford Flying Service once every trip or two (so about once, maybe twice a month) on average (gotta love the free wine)! We don't always stay for too long, but I've had a few overnights there. I'll try to get ahold of you guys next time if you want to come see the plane or grab a bite.

Is yours still the 530 number from way back when, Felix?

Yes, it is. Definitely let me know - if I remember correctly, I owe you lunch/dinner anyways and yes, I'm sure both Kimberly and I would love to see the plane!

 

[Teller1900]

Yes, it is. Definitely let me know - if I remember correctly, I owe you lunch/dinner anyways and yes, I'm sure both Kimberly and I would love to see the plane!

Well I don't remember that, so we'll call it even. As soon as I know, you'll know! Nice job starting the MASSIVE thread drift in one post, by the way!

 

[kimberlyanne546]

Well I don't remember that, so we'll call it even. As soon as I know, you'll know! Nice job starting the MASSIVE thread drift in one post, by the way!

LOL he started it but it may end up in me seeing a cool airplane so I'm cool with it.


Kimberly

 

[catmandu]

Still goofy that we don't build GA radios like those we get for non-N number planes for Uncle Sam, where the default power on mode is to monitor guard. Yeah, I know, cost and all, but still . . .

 

[sba55]

Well I don't remember that, so we'll call it even. As soon as I know, you'll know! Nice job starting the MASSIVE thread drift in one post, by the way!

Excellent - looking forward to it! And I can be at KAPC any time; weekdays, weekends, 8am...doesn't matter as long as I get to see the plane

Sorry about the thread drift. I guess that's the good thing about online forums - don't like it? Don't read it

 

[kimberlyanne546]

Excellent - looking forward to it! And I can be at KAPC any time; weekdays, weekends, 8am...doesn't matter as long as I get to see the plane

Sorry about the thread drift. I guess that's the good thing about online forums - don't like it? Don't read it

But he might be at SFO, SJO, and others with less than 24 hour notice. Can you go to those too?

 

[Teller1900]

Excellent - looking forward to it! And I can be at KAPC any time; weekdays, weekends, 8am...doesn't matter as long as I get to see the plane

Sorry about the thread drift. I guess that's the good thing about online forums - don't like it? Don't read it

Fair enough!

 

[Teller1900]

But he might be at SFO, SJO, and others with less than 24 hour notice. Can you go to those too?

He came to Maine once to ride around in a Beech 1900. I'd wager yes, he probably can!

 

[denverpilot]

I seriously doubt it is legal for your employer in California to have a "use it or lose it" vacation policy. Vacation is is a wage that was earned. They can't just steal it.

They can either pay it back to you if you don't use it - or they can have a "use it or we'll stop giving you additional vacation time".

Having just left a California company faced with the dilemma of having to account for millions of dollars worth of unused vacation hours on the books as a liability...

What they'd do is tell everyone (had to be "fair" you know!) that we had to take X number of days off per quarter, period. Didn't matter if you had weeks saved up, or only a few hours.

They then also had to let newbies "borrow" PTO days to cover the mandatory paid time off. Some people, if they'd been laid off, would have lost most of their final paycheck to pay back the PTO time they were required to take. Others of us were just annoyed that we were trying to save up for a BIG vacation and couldn't.

Just talked to my old boss the other day. He's been there for over ten years now. It was no surprise to catch him at home on a Friday taking yet another mandatory PTO day last Friday.

California and Colorado both have laws that require any accrued PTO be paid out in cash at termination for any reason. Colorado does not require that sick time be paid if the company delineates between vacation and sick.

Colorado also has laws on the books that technical support workers (based on job title) can't be paid via salary and must be hourly employees, but I can count on one finger the number of employers who didn't ignore that rule. They were sued over it by an ex-employee, and he won during a drummed up "firing" where the company contested his unemployment benefits.

Most Colorado companies just give everyone a fake Engineer title and get around it that way. Everybody's an Engineer. Even the guy swapping the backup tapes. "Junior Storage Solutions Engineer I", for example.

Canada surprisingly holds the Engineer title in higher esteem and requires the individual to pass the PE exam or the company can't use the title.

 

[GCA319]

It's interesting if you think about it that out here in the West a lot of the Communications engineering effort was done to cover published routes, and lots of us are flying direct these days.

Low-altitude, it's pretty common to hear Center fading away or even more common to hear "RADAR contact lost".

Departing a class G in the mountains (SKX) in IMC while climbing in a holding pattern over a VOR so you don't hit anything and not being able to reach center until 11,000 would scare lots of people who trained in different environments. There was a King air that smashed into the side of a mountain near SRR because the pilot went around a storm on an ODB in IMC. A good lesson in ADM that I intend to teach to all of my IR students when I finally get my CFI-I done.


Not sure what any of this has to do with monitoring 21.5, but your post reminded me how different IFR in the mountains is compared to the rest of the country.

 

[sba55]

He came to Maine once to ride around in a Beech 1900. I'd wager yes, he probably can!

Yes, sure, any airport. Btw., too bad that we didn't have an empty last leg