Why not a Tiger?

saddletramp

saddletramp

Line Up and Wait
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saddletramp
This Saturday I'm looking at a local Grumman Tiger for sale. I remember way back in the mid-70's as a young buck CFI giving dual in a customer owned Traveler & really enjoying the airplane. I also rented an AA-1 a few times while building hours & thought it was a lot of fun & a nice change from the 172 that I was training in.

Now that my wife is suddenly interested in learning to fly the 182 I've been searching for is probably too much plane for us right now. I figured she could learn in the Tiger & it would be a decent cross country machine for the two of us.

After some research it seems that Tiger owners are very loyal to their birds & happy with them.

I'd love to hear Tiger experiences & impressions from my fellow POA buddies.
 
Assuming the seal is in good shape, canopies tend to be a lot less drafty than doors.

Climbing into a Cessna is like climbing into a 4x4. Stepping down into a canopy equipped aircraft is like stepping down into a small boat.

Taxiing with the canopy back and your elbow out the side on a warm summer's evening is one of the finest things in life.

Why not a Tiger? Well, they're not as underappreciated as they used to be.
 
I learned in Grummans, and have flown the Cheetah and a 172. I'd take the Tiger over a 172SP, especially if there are just two of you.

Speaking of the canopy, it's really nice to climb to altitude on a hot day with the canopy open. It's like a temporary infusion of fall.
 
Thanks for the replies & the link to a previous thread. We'll see what my wife's impressions are of the Tiger in the morning. She is 5' 10" tall (thin) & has some back issues. A few years ago I nearly bought a Porsche 911 but when she rode in it she was okay with my buying the car but said she'd never go on any trips in it because the seats were too low. I'm thinking she may have the same issue with the Tiger. I passed on the 911.
 
Indeed getting in and out of Tiger is a serious undertaking. In most cases you have to step on the seats.

In addition, it has a few small downsides:

- Nobody will fix the bonded aluminum for you. You prang it just a little, it's a total.

- You have to drag brakes when taxiing, just like in a Cirrus.

- The short-field/rough field performance is rather marginal. You could make Gaston's, but that's about it.

- Arriving to a parking in the rain means everything inside gets wet, even more so than in Mooney.

- Compared to a Mooney, they aren't all that fast.

All of them are debatable and mean nothing to the happy owners, but since you asked...

If you like the performance, and you could splurge on a real 911 (as opposed a Boxster), then you really should look at a decent RV instead of a Tiger. You can get in an astonishing one for $100k. Ask Jay about his RV-8A that he got for $118k. Even $80k get you a great one. Unfortunately, getting in and out of them is the same chore as with a Grumman single.
 
I have a 1991 Tiger that I bought several months ago and flew it out from the Midwest. I love it! It's hangered at KPSC which you apparently frequent based on your photo with 733 EC. PM me if you want to catch a ride sometime.

There are lots of Tiger and Grumman threads on POA that argue and debate the relative merits and objections of these aircraft - some of which are based on personal knowledge and some is simply OWTs. You can also join Grumman Gang including Bondline and Grumman Pilots Association for free and there is a wealth of information on those sites; American Yankee Association is not free but contains a fair amount of information as well.

I will say Tigers don't fly like a 172. They are very quick and responsive to slight inputs to the controls. Mine is a bit piggish at 1540lbs so my useful load is low 800's. Since its only my wife and I, we have plenty of room. Energy management is critical when landing and you will soon learn they don't slow down quickly. So as Cpt. Ron Levy used to stress, you really have to hit the numbers on approach and if you are too fast, go around. My first several landings were too fast and I learned that lesson quickly although I will say the ferry pilot I was with landed at 80 knots at night in a rain storm at Billings, Montana by flying it onto the runway - just like he does in the Dash 8 he flys for a living. That is well beyond my skills.
 
Thanks for the replies & the link to a previous thread. We'll see what my wife's impressions are of the Tiger in the morning. She is 5' 10" tall (thin) & has some back issues. A few years ago I nearly bought a Porsche 911 but when she rode in it she was okay with my buying the car but said she'd never go on any trips in it because the seats were too low. I'm thinking she may have the same issue with the Tiger. I passed on the 911.
 
Actually, the Tiger we're looking at tomorrow is also based at KPSC. If the airplane suits my wife, we'll ask the owner to fly it at a later date.

Thanks for the offer though.
 
zaitcev said:
Indeed getting in and out of Tiger is a serious undertaking. In most cases you have to step on the seats.

In addition, it has a few small downsides:

- Nobody will fix the bonded aluminum for you. You prang it just a little, it's a total.

- You have to drag brakes when taxiing, just like in a Cirrus.

- The short-field/rough field performance is rather marginal. You could make Gaston's, but that's about it.

- Arriving to a parking in the rain means everything inside gets wet, even more so than in Mooney.

- Compared to a Mooney, they aren't all that fast.

All of them are debatable and mean nothing to the happy owners, but since you asked...

If you like the performance, and you could splurge on a real 911 (as opposed a Boxster), then you really should look at a decent RV instead of a Tiger. You can get in an astonishing one for $100k. Ask Jay about his RV-8A that he got for $118k. Even $80k get you a great one. Unfortunately, getting in and out of them is the same chore as with a Grumman single.
Click to expand...
 
i just sold the RV we had yesterday. So no thanks to another RV. I'm paying cash for an airplane so I figured selling an RV that we never used was a good idea.

I guess I don't really understand why you brought that up?
 
He was saying if you wanted a nimble airplane and your budget supported it, you might consider one of Van's Aircraft RV series. If you just need 2 seats, an RV9a would give you a newer airframe with the simplicity of a Tiger, but with greater speed and economy.
 
zaitcev said:
Indeed getting in and out of Tiger is a serious undertaking. In most cases you have to step on the seats...

- You have to drag brakes when taxiing, just like in a Cirrus.
Click to expand...

The bottom seat cushions lift up easily with a toe to step directly on the seat bottom, and are designed that way, IIRC.

Dragging the brakes in either a Cirrus or a Grumman is very bad form. In an early Cirrus it can even result in a brake fire. Use enough speed for the rudder to be effective and only apply a stab of rudder periodically and then only when full rudder doesn't work. Also use the "crown" of runways and taxiways to minimum brake use.
 
As an aside, Karen got herself a new hip about 5 1/2 months ago. This week was the first time she could maneuver up and into the Sky Arrow, which is kinda similar to a Grumman, but with no wing to lower yourself from. Used a little folding step instead.

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Nice flight over to Brasstown, NC where a friend just competed a Just Highlander.

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Please go fly a Tiger as soon as you can.. That will answer most of your questions and I think you will say you want one..

Getting in and out of a Tiger is drastically easier than many other low wing planes. You step up on to the low, easy to reach step, walk 2 steps along the wing walk, while standing almost straight up you flip the seat cushion up with your foot and step right on the seat bottom ( it is designed for this and can handle your full weight ) while standing on the seat bottom you step down on to the floor ( approx. 6" down ) then just sit down. It is probably the easiest plane to get in. The other low wing single door planes you pretty much have to kneel / lay down on the wing walk and roll in, then slide across.

The sliding canopy that can be opened whenever you want on the ground and even in the air ( to the placarded limit)
The amount of cooling it provides to all passengers is unparalleled except maybe an open cockpit or air conditioned plane. The trade off is if it is raining when you are getting in and out. How often does this happen? All it takes to solve this "big" problem is a golf umbrella..Pop the canopy, open your umbrella and now no rain is getting on you or the interior while you get in and out..

How is using the brakes to taxi a big deal ? You will get the feel of taxiing with the brakes after a few minutes and then the advantages of the castering nose wheel will become apparent. The Grummans can pivot around for parking like almost no other. The only downside could be brake wear, mine last at least 2 annuals so maybe 125-150 hours. Brake pads are a low cost item.

Go fly both a Mooney and a Tiger.. Forget the airspeed in cruise.. It only means a few minutes difference on most flights but instead compare the view out the windows and the feel of the controls and the responsiveness of the airplane. Then you will have a better and clear cut comparison.

Last thing.. Of course everyone loves the plane they own and think it is the best out there. That's why flying the plane is way better than listening to the internet discuss the little details that really don't matter to the ownership and enjoyment of a particular plane..

Good luck with your search..
 
Mike's Tiger at KSPC is as is Mike. When we got interested in buying a Tiger he was gracious enough to let us look at his and have my wife sit in it. He answered many of our questions. He has a fair amount of time in Tigers and other Grummans. I had bought mine before he decided to sell his; otherwise I would have given his serious consideration.

Getting in and out of a Tiger is no big deal. Unlike some, I don't step on the seat getting in or out even though I am relatively short. Each person needs to develop their own method of what works for them.

Good luck in your search.
 
saddletramp said:
I guess I don't really understand why you brought that up?
Click to expand...
With this kind of cash you can get RV-10 if you need 4 seats. It runs circles around a Tiger, even a 2004 one.
 
So, Saddletramp, what did you think of the Grumman Tiger?
If you're interested, Ken Blackman in your part of the country is considered one of the Grumman Gurus re maintenance. If he annualled the plane you looked at it's likely in good shape....if not a pre-buy from him is certainly in order.
 
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I've had my 1979 Tiger for 19 months and love it. I've flown the Piper's and the Cessna's and immediately knew upon flying a Cheetah that I wanted one. Ground handling, balance of the controls, visibility, speed, and ease of entry are excellent. I do not fly in the rain and don't see to many people who do so that's not a big issue. There is plenty of expert advice for maintenance issues with several shops around the country. I used FletchAir, in Comfort Texas, for information and advice. They were very helpful and invited me to their facility to get a firsthand look. The mechanics and Guru, Garner Rice, spent 6 hrs with me showing me everything I needed to know and look for in the model.
I flight plan for 120kts and burn about 9-9.5 gph. Flying to KOSH last summer I cruised at 9500ft and got 135 ktas @9.5gph.

The only drawback is it being a certified airplane. It is more expensive to do smart, better, things to the airplane since you need certified gear. If I didn't have the Tiger I would seriously look at the RV. They share many attributes of the Grumman and you can put cool stuff in it without being certified.

My background is military pilot, commercial airline pilot, G.A. Pilot, CFII....
 

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I personally liked the Tiger. There were three of us aboard. Me, my wife, & a CFI picked by the Tiger owner.

The day wasn't the best. Lots of cumulus clouds around & wind gust to 23 knots. It was bit bumpy. My wife is still a new to general aviation & didn't care for the bumps.

The Tiger leaped off the ground & the rate of climb was great. Better than a 172 but not a 182. It just does not have the grunt a 0-470 has.

My wife wasn't crazy for the Tiger & got a bit airsick in the back seat. She felt it rode rougher than the 182 & Bonanza we've flown in the past.

The hour ride home on the motorcycle we discussed our flight (we have bluetooth helmets). My wise wife told me that we'd be happiest with a 182.

So we're passing on the Tiger.
 
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