Why Must the NYC Transit System Shut Down at 39 MPH?

Jay Honeck said:
So it's not really based on any wind-speed limitations inherent in the system.

Good enough answer...
Click to expand...

No as was said before, you're going to use a number well below that of where there is a physical risk to safety in a situation that is known to be increasing to give you time to get eveything and everyone secure before that time. When Tropical Storm Force winds hit, they knew they were dealing with a rather short time until the storm made transit impossible and could leave equipment and the people in a vulnerable state. Believe it or not, these people usually have a clue.
 
Last edited:
You've got to set it somewhere. The amount of times they get 40 MPH straight line winds in NYC are infrequent. Unlike heavy rail or even your RV, there are some pretty low speed sharp turns that don't take much to cause a derailment. These cars are small, so small that you can't take ones off one line and stick it on another because they're sized for the particular tunnels (width and turning radius) that they're on.

It's an operational thing, the cars are stored outside anyhow. They do pretty good on weather they DO encounter annually. Even in the snow I've been able to get from my sister-in-law's (on the surface lines in Brooklyn) down to Manhattan.
 
I think MTA gave a pretty rasonable explanation. They knew the storm would be over within 12hrs and wanted all the vehicles safely tucked away rather than stuck on the tracks and in tunnels. They were not worried about derailing at 39mph, they were afraid of loosing power at 50mph with increasing winds and having to evacuate a car on a elevated track at 85mph.

Nobody got hurt on the transit system, their approach was proven right. This shutdown was announced in advance, everyone knew it was going to happen. What is the whinig about again ?
 
weilke said:
Nobody got hurt on the transit system, their approach was proven right. This shutdown was announced in advance, everyone knew it was going to happen. What is the whining about again ?
Click to expand...

Pretty much the same as most things, someone who doesn't understand something getting indignant over something that doesn't effect them. Nothing new in the USA....
 
Does anyone think maybe they learned something from Katrina? Maybe?

And that PREVENTING problems is a whole lot less messy and cheaper than cleaning up afterwards? I would think all pilots would understand that/it would be inherent in their nature.
 
Henning said:
Pretty much the same as most things, someone who doesn't understand something getting indignant over something that doesn't effect them. Nothing new in the USA....
Click to expand...

You guys are HILARIOUS. A simple question is turned into whining... :rolleyes:

We all understand that the system was shut down as this hurricane escalated in intensity and wind speed. 39 mph was the threshold shut-down speed, set by officials as winds climbed ever higher. They needed to draw a line somewhere, and 39 was the number they picked.

Did they use the same number in the face of diminishing winds? In other words, after the storm passed did they re-start the system when the winds were, say, 45, but predicted to go lower, or did they wait until it fell below 39?

This would be one way to determine if the 39 mph wind speed was set arbitrarily, or was actually based on substantive reasoning.

Not that I really care anymore... :lol:
 
woodstock said:
Does anyone think maybe they learned something from Katrina? Maybe?

And that PREVENTING problems is a whole lot less messy and cheaper than cleaning up afterwards? I would think all pilots would understand that/it would be inherent in their nature.
Click to expand...

This post perfectly illustrates the problem with thread creep, and the perils of not reading the entire thread.

NO ONE at any stage of this discussion has questioned the reasons for shutting down the New York transit systems in the face of an oncoming hurricane. NO ONE has said anything about it being anything except an intelligent decision.

The bone-simple question was "Why 39 mph?" This got lost in all the arm waving...
 
Jay Honeck said:
This post perfectly illustrates the problem with thread creep, and the perils of not reading the entire thread.

NO ONE at any stage of this discussion has questioned the reasons for shutting down the New York transit systems in the face of an oncoming hurricane. NO ONE has said anything about it being anything except an intelligent decision.

The bone-simple question was "Why 39 mph?" This got lost in all the arm waving...
Click to expand...

JAY HONECK
I don't get it -- a 39 mph wind is pretty normal here in Texas, yet they have to shut the entire New York City transit system down (buses, subways, AND trains) when winds reach 39 MPH?
Click to expand...

SKIP MILLER
Jay, your instincts are correct. 39 is a bs number.

Given the forecast, and the 8 hour lead time to total shutdown, somebody decided that as the storm approaches, 39 was the shutdown point.

There is a tremendous amount of dis-information surrounding Irene....

-Skip
Click to expand...

GREG
It is the gov't bullying people into leaving. A friends town near the cape is shutting off the water- claiming it might be contaminated. Perhaps. More likely it is coercion to get everybody to do what they are told. Leave your house with all your tools and camping supplies and we will put you up in a nice elementary school gymnasium. Oh and we forgot to mention there won't be any water in the gym as the town water is off.
Click to expand...

SPIKE
A substantive decision, based upon essentially irrelevant criteria.

Sounds like a perfect bureaucratic solution!
Click to expand...

You're right, no one questioned it.
 
Jay Honeck said:
You guys are HILARIOUS. A simple question is turned into whining... :rolleyes:

We all understand that the system was shut down as this hurricane escalated in intensity and wind speed. 39 mph was the threshold shut-down speed, set by officials as winds climbed ever higher. They needed to draw a line somewhere, and 39 was the number they picked.

Did they use the same number in the face of diminishing winds? In other words, after the storm passed did they re-start the system when the winds were, say, 45, but predicted to go lower, or did they wait until it fell below 39?

This would be one way to determine if the 39 mph wind speed was set arbitrarily, or was actually based on substantive reasoning.

Not that I really care anymore... :lol:
Click to expand...

It wasn't the question, it was the "If My Mother..." rant that you put out.
 
woodstock said:
You're right, no one questioned it.
Click to expand...

None of your quotes suggest otherwise.

Many, believe that 39 mph is an absurdly low threshold number, arrived at by bureaucrats who picked it out of their arse. That said, with a hurricane coming, promising winds of 100 mph or more (which did not come to pass, thankfully), shutting down the transit system was inevitable, and no one suggested otherwise.
 
Jay Honeck said:
None of your quotes suggest otherwise.

Many, believe that 39 mph is an absurdly low threshold number, arrived at by bureaucrats who picked it out of their arse. That said, with a hurricane coming, promising winds of 100 mph or more (which did not come to pass, thankfully), shutting down the transit system was inevitable, and no one suggested otherwise.
Click to expand...

That included you right? Do you still feel that way? Do you understand thst the time between 40kt winds and 70kt winds is around an hour? Have you been there for a hurricane hit yet? It gets a might sporty on the barrier Islands. I spent one hurricane jacked up behind Mustang Island with a lift boat. That was a pretty big storm. Jeez, what year was that, same one that hit King Ranch?
 
Jay Honeck said:
Did they use the same number in the face of diminishing winds? In other words, after the storm passed did they re-start the system when the winds were, say, 45, but predicted to go lower, or did they wait until it fell below 39?
Click to expand...

As an educated guess from someone who's worked quite a few if these....

I will say No. They didn't restart based on wind.

They waited until storm conditions abated enough until transit staffers could report back to work. Transit employees are nonessential and dont need to ride out the storm in the clock.

Once roads are clear the buses could resume. The subways, whole nother ballgame. Make sure the tubes aren't flooded or contaminated. Those are electric cars and run off a hot 3rd rail.

But that's just a guess.
 
Doggtyred said:
As an educated guess from someone who's worked quite a few if these....

I will say No. They didn't restart based on wind.

They waited until storm conditions abated enough until transit staffers could report back to work. Transit employees are nonessential and dont need to ride out the storm in the clock.

Once roads are clear the buses could resume. The subways, whole nother ballgame. Make sure the tubes aren't flooded or contaminated. Those are electric cars and run off a hot 3rd rail.

But that's just a guess.
Click to expand...

Yep, all the lines will be run and inspected before passenger service resumes. Doesn't take long.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top