Why do pilots push fuel endurance....

mscard88 said:
This guy ( a CFI!) flew for 3 1/2 hours in a C152 and ran out of fuel. He's fortunate he landed and is alive. A 152 burns around 5-6 GPH and has 24.5 gallons usable. Like VFR into IMC, this one happens way too frequently and is preventable. Article says he used 5500' as a cruise altitude, hmm, from St Augustine to Lawerenceville is NW, so as a CFI he flew at the wrong altitude for direction of flight also.

https://www.ntsb.gov/_layouts/ntsb....ev_id=20160118X02647&ntsbno=ERA16LA091&akey=1
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I didn't open the link but even at 6gph you should have 4 hours of fuel if the tanks started out full. Why would a person expect to run out 3.5 hours into a flight with that much fuel on board?

Before someone points it out, I am well aware that 30 minutes reserve does not meet IFR minimums.
 
mscard88 said:
WTF are you flying? A glider?
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Hey, I don't have to fly very far to get a burger here!

Well okay I was joking, but 99% of my flights are under a couple hours air time. I have roughly five hours of fuel in the Arrow, and as long as fuel is near or to the tabs, I'm good to go. Yes I look. If in doubt, I'm fueling.
 
mondtster said:
I didn't open the link but even at 6gph you should have 4 hours of fuel if the tanks started out full. Why would a person expect to run out 3.5 hours into a flight with that much fuel on board?

Before someone points it out, I am well aware that 30 minutes reserve does not meet IFR minimums.
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The $100 million dollar question mondtster. We've been asking that question for what seems forever. I know I stress fuel to students, tell 'em you can't just pull over like you can in a car.

30 minutes doesn't meet the :45 minutes for IFR, but it does for VFR requirement.
 
mscard88 said:
The $100 million dollar question mondtster. We've been asking that question for what seems forever. I know I stress fuel to students, tell 'em you can't just pull over like you can in a car.

30 minutes doesn't meet the :45 minutes for IFR, but it does for VFR requirement.
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Indeed...

I may not have phrased my last comment the best, I'm not sticking up for this guy's actions. He was way too close to the edge for my comfort but if I were in his shoes I probably wouldn't have expected to run out at the 3:30 mark when it should be 4:00 or more.

When I've burned tanks dry my time calculations are usually almost dead on. But I lean like I should and wouldn't do it on an airplane that I'm not very familiar with. Plus, in a 152 the tanks are tied together and 30 minutes of fuel (3 gallons) split between two tanks would have left very little in each tank. My personal threshold in the 152 would be an hour reserve for this reason.

Question: Would people beat up ferry pilots or bush pilots that fly close to their max range before fueling the same way the CONUS pilots get beat up? Just curious.
 
I’ve had two close calls, one ages ago in a Traveler, one more recent in my Sky Arrow.

I think there’s psychology involved. With the best of intentions and proper planning, one can still find oneself with marginal fuel at times. The problem is, the closer you get to your destination, the more you hate to stop just short, leading to a sort of “coffin corner”. Combined with the fact that it’s usually worked out OK in the past, it can lead one down that path to fuel exhaustion.

Not in any way excusing it. Just be aware that prior to running out of fuel, I’ll bet most pilots never thought of themselves as the kind of pilot that that could ever happen to. And yet it did.
 
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mscard88 said:
13087_3.jpg
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Yah..but there are some logistics ya kmow... small cramped place, cold, not finding stuff under workload

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
Sac Arrow said:
I'm am a complete pu^^^y when it comes to fuel. My personal reserves are 3 hours for a VFR flight and 4.5 hours for an IFR flight.
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Um..what do u fly again? Ur IFR min is my complete fuel endurance

Sent from my SM-G935V using Tapatalk
 
6GPH presumes a moderate cruise setting and leaned. You can easily exceed 13 GPH at low altitudes, full rich, and full throttle. Many of us who used to fly those planes figured 9 gallons for the first hour and 6 thereafter.
 
FastEddieB said:
I’ve had two close calls, one ages ago in a Traveler, one more recent in my Sky Arrow.

I think there’s psychology involved. With the best of intentions and proper planning, one can still find oneself with marginal fuel at times. The problem is, the closer you get to your destination, the more you hate to stop just short, leading to a sort of “coffin corner”. Combined with the fact that it’s usually worked out OK in the past, it can lead one down that path to fuel exhaustion.

Not in any way excusing it. Just be aware that prior to running out of fuel, I’ll bet most pilots never thought of themselves as the kind of pilot that that could ever happen to. And yet it did.
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I've heard it said that most fuel exhaustion events happen within a small radius around an airport. Anyone know if that's true?

Madison is about 30 miles away from Lawrenceville, so he came up way short.

When I was training, I arrived at LZU and heard the chatter of someone who had run out of fuel. He put it in the grassy patch between the Alcovy river and 316.

https://goo.gl/maps/iuY2qpYpLH22

As Maxwell Smart used to say, "missed it by that much."
 
rpadula said:
I've heard it said that most fuel exhaustion events happen within a small radius around an airport. Anyone know if that's true?

Madison is about 30 miles away from Lawrenceville, so he came up way short.

When I was training, I arrived at LZU and heard the chatter of someone who had run out of fuel. He put it in the grassy patch between the Alcovy river and 316.

https://goo.gl/maps/iuY2qpYpLH22

As Maxwell Smart used to say, "missed it by that much."
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It's relative. In aviation generally 30 miles is pretty close to the airport when flights are measured in 100's and 1000's of miles.
 
kyleb said:
It is. But the subject aircraft was a 152, which has the 108 hp Lycoming O-235, not a 100 hp O-200...
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Correct, but that post was in discussion about a 150 that Steingar specifically mentioned he flew.
 
flyingron said:
Headwinds don't change the endurance, just the range.
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I dunno, I get bored flying over KS/NE/Daks at sub 90 knot ground speeds and tend to stop for a glass of tea. Headed east? 150+ knots I just keep goin’
:)
 
Salty said:
It's relative. In aviation generally 30 miles is pretty close to the airport when flights are measured in 100's and 1000's of miles.
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I used to fly regularly between LZU and Jacksonville. 250 nm on the dot. I would not consider coming up short by 30 miles "pretty close." In a 152, that's a lotta time to not be aware of the predicament.
 
dmspilot said:
Then you're either a magician or a better pilot than the Cessna factory test pilots, since your fuel consumption is ~20% less than the book figure of 6.1gph.
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But but but ... he had a tailwind. *shrug*


mscard88 said:
A 152 burns around 5-6 GPH and has 24.5 gallons usable.
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A good pilot friend of mine met a guy who flew 4.5 hours in his 152, landed and put 25 gallons into the tanks. He then proceeded to dial the FAA on his phone to report a fuel farm scam. My friend stopped him. Maybe he shouldn't have. Because this guy didn't do it just once. *rolleyes*
 
In my Traveler scare from decades ago, if the fuel receipt was right I landed with less than a gallon remaining.

I forget the exact brain fart/mental malfunction that led to that close call, but it did sober me up for a long, long time. Though I did land my Sky Arrow once with less than I would have preferred.
 
I follow the same rules as with my vehicles.
1. Don't drive anywhere that you can't get there and back on a single tank of gas.
2. Never let you tank get below half.

I don't fly a leg unless I can do it with full tanks at takeoff. If that puts me overweight, then someone or something is getting left behind. Too many other ways to die in a plane. Running out of gas shouldn't be one of them.
 
Rykymus said:
I don't fly a leg unless I can do it with full tanks at takeoff.
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I should think not. Not sure what you meant to say, but I'm sure that wasn't what you meant. Maybe you meant "do it both ways"?
 
When I was working the line, I put 60+ gal (63?) into a 182 that came in and wanted a quick turn. My gears were turning...
 
Rykymus said:
I follow the same rules as with my vehicles.
1. Don't drive anywhere that you can't get there and back on a single tank of gas.
2. Never let you tank get below half.
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#1, ??? My car has a range of about 350, so using this rule I should never travel more than 175 miles from home? Or, do you combine this with #2 and if I go more than 175mi from home fill up at half tank?
 
rpadula said:
I've heard it said that most fuel exhaustion events happen within a small radius around an airport. Anyone know if that's true?

Madison is about 30 miles away from Lawrenceville, so he came up way short.
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Remember this one? Fuel exhaustion, and the flight was a 16.5 nm hop from Fullerton to Brackett. Still had 7.5 gallons in the other tank, but ran one dry and didn't flip the selector, according to NTSB report.

live-stream-452.jpg

The guy was pretty lucky...broke an ankle pretty badly, & facial lacerations.

Interesting side note: I met him afterward through a mutual friend, and we all play doubles tennis together! The drop shot is effective on him, with the bad ankle and all... :D:D
 
With full tanks in my plane I have an endurance of over 7 hours. I typically fly with about half that.
 
BigBadLou said:
A good pilot friend of mine met a guy who flew 4.5 hours in his 152, landed and put 25 gallons into the tanks. He then proceeded to dial the FAA on his phone to report a fuel farm scam. My friend stopped him. Maybe he shouldn't have. Because this guy didn't do it just once. *rolleyes*
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Just boggles the mind....
 
I've come close a few times.
A leaking fuel tank caused me to run dangerously low. I had no idea I had a leak.
I ran out of fuel once, waiting for the KC so come by. That was exciting, but ended well. Sgt McGuire, thank you. You were spectacular that day.

Now, fuel is never a problem.
I can't fly more than 2.5 hours.
At that point I have to be on the ground looking for the Men's Room.
 
Sorry about my mistake guys, I forget the Lycoming in the 152 burned a bit more than the Continental in my 150. Of course he ran out of 24 gallons at 7 gph. I'm pretty conservative about fuel as well, I've got to have at least and hour extra no matter the flight. Someone else said it, dying because you ran out of gas is a stupid way to go.
 
Shepherd said:
I think those guys used up all of the available luck in the entire S.E.A. theater of operations that day. It was epic.
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I don't know why there hasn't been a movie made about it. Enough SEAL movies (no disrespect), get some Air Force stories!
 
Salty said:
I should think not. Not sure what you meant to say, but I'm sure that wasn't what you meant. Maybe you meant "do it both ways"?
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Sorry, poor wording on my part. I meant that I try never to launch onto any leg of a journey with anything less than full tanks. It doesn't matter if my destination is 30 minutes, or two hours. And I never load my plane with bodies or baggage that won't allow me to launch with full tanks. (Exceptions would be Yes, it reduces my useful load, but I don't care. I simply refuse to push the boundaries from the start. I do this because I know that I'm the type that will "go for it" if given the chance. So I compensate by not putting myself in the position to do so from the start.

Luckily, my bladder has far shorter endurance than my plane.
 
overdrive148 said:
When I was working the line, I put 60+ gal (63?) into a 182 that came in and wanted a quick turn. My gears were turning...
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I used to fly a 182 that held something like 92 gallons. Super long range tanks. My bladder will not last that long, plus with full tanks I would have had to leave my pants and shoes on the ground.

I think earlier model 182 held 65 gallons.... not really sure though.
 
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