Why didn't I think of this before?

Jay Honeck

Jay Honeck

Touchdown! Greaser!
Joined
Jun 6, 2008
Messages
11,571
Location
Ingleside, TX
Display Name
Jay Honeck
Home Airfield
KTFP - Ingleside, TX
So last night I went up and practiced slow flight in preparation for the FISK approach into Oshkosh, as it's my year to fly in. (Mary and I alternate PIC into OSH each year.)

So, I dialed in 90 knots at 1800 MSL, and puttered around the islands for a bit. As always, it felt impossibly slow, at first, but once trimmed up it was kind of fun.

Then, I looked down at my panel, saw the TruTrack autopilot, and thought to myself "Hmmmm... Why not?" So I clicked it on.

With altitude hold, I was able to fly along at 90 knots, steering with the little heading knob. It was simplicity itself! I laughed out loud.

Then, I thought...does it actually "count" as "flying into Oshkosh" if the plane flies itself in? lol!
:)
 
:D:D:stirpot:I shudder to think the terror you will become once you figure out the OBS button!:stirpot::D:D
 
Pilot.

Button pushing technologist.

Do not confuse these two.

:goofy:
 
Or you program it into your GPS, alt hold, GPSS on, done.


90kts isn't that slow for most piston GA planes, what were you in?
 
Matthew said:
You had a "I wonder what this button does?" moment.
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Ha. No, we use the autopilot on flights of any duration. It's a real godsend on cross country flights, and the TruTrack, slaved to our EFIS, is an amazing tool.

But I've never used it in slow flight before -- and it never occurred to me to use it whilst flying up the railroad tracks on the FISK approach! Dang, it just doesn't seem fair to everyone else, as they're fighting to hold altitude, for me to just sit there reading a good book, letting George do it...

;)
 
Jay Honeck said:
Ha. No, we use the autopilot on flights of any duration. It's a real godsend on cross country flights, and the TruTrack, slaved to our EFIS, is an amazing tool.

But I've never used it in slow flight before -- and it never occurred to me to use it whilst flying up the railroad tracks on the FISK approach! Dang, it just doesn't seem fair to everyone else, as they're fighting to hold altitude, for me to just sit there reading a good book, letting George do it...

;)
Click to expand...

90 knots is about 40 knots faster than slow flight in a RV-8....
 
Matthew said:
You had a "I wonder what this button does?" moment.
Click to expand...

Just remember, as the passenger, never touch the red button hidden in the gear shift of an early 60's Aston Martin DB-5
 
You have enough to do when getting in the line up for Osh,use the auto pilot and cut your stress level . I know you RV pilots don't like to fly slow.
 
ClimbnSink said:
Do RV autopilots have an overhead break button?
Click to expand...


I'll bet the right buttons would program one into his EFIS. :yesnod::goofy:



I'll prolly use my 430W/GPSS/alt. hold most of the way....

I don't know, I'm so used to hand flying and I hand flew it last time I'll probably kill George before RIPON. :dunno: It depends on radio traffic and traffic in general.

I had to slow down on the tracks last time but I kept my altitude nailed even though the guy ahead of me didn't start down like he was supposed to. I broke off and started down to 1500' mid field like you're supposed to and left him up high danglin' somewhere .... never saw him again because they shoved him downwind and told me to start our base.
 
jesse said:
90 knots is about 40 knots faster than slow flight in a RV-8....
Click to expand...
90 knots is flap extension speed. We flight plan 170, so 90 feels like we're going backwards.

Sure, you can get it down to 55 knots or so before the break, but you're looking at nothing but sky, and the engine ain't liking it much.
 
Jay Honeck said:
90 knots is flap extension speed. We flight plan 170, so 90 feels like we're going backwards.

Sure, you can get it down to 55 knots or so before the break, but you're looking at nothing but sky, and the engine ain't liking it much.
Click to expand...

I would get comfortable all the way down to that point including flying at that point. I've seen the arrival as slow as 70 knots.
 
Jay Honeck said:
90 knots is flap extension speed. We flight plan 170, so 90 feels like we're going backwards.

Sure, you can get it down to 55 knots or so before the break, but you're looking at nothing but sky, and the engine ain't liking it much.
Click to expand...

65 - 70 knots isn't bad with one notch of flaps and a little power.

And there is no way I'd use an autopilot on the arrival procedure. You need to be hands on stick and throttle and eyeballs out. Not messing around with knobs and buttons.
 
kyleb said:
And there is no way I'd use an autopilot on the arrival procedure. You need to be hands on stick and throttle and eyeballs out. Not messing around with knobs and buttons.
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amen, I can't imagine not having hands on the controls every second there
 
kyleb said:
And there is no way I'd use an autopilot on the arrival procedure. You need to be hands on stick and throttle and eyeballs out. Not messing around with knobs and buttons.
Click to expand...

JHW said:
amen, I can't imagine not having hands on the controls every second there
Click to expand...

Proper use of the autopilot and PROFICIENCY with its use can actually let one spend MORE time looking outside for traffic.

Of course, when things are changing faster than what one can deal with on the AP, then it is time to click it off.

The above comments are obviously biased against autopilot use.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Proper use of the autopilot and PROFICIENCY with its use can actually let one spend MORE time looking outside for traffic.

Of course, when things are changing faster than what one can deal with on the AP, then it is time to click it off.

The above comments are obviously biased against autopilot use.
Click to expand...
Not at all biased, greg. I'll bet I hand fly ~5 minutes of any typical trip, i almost always have stec doing the work. But I'd never fly the fiske arrival without having a hand on the wheel at all times, there is just too many things to hit there.

and i think you need to reconsider the OP's situation. 1) he's not comfortable flying slow, to the point that he thinks 90 kts in an RV is "slow", and 2) he didn't know his autopilot would work at 90 kts. That's not the sort of proficient use of the autopilot that leads to greater awareness of traffic.
 
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JHW said:
Not at all biased, greg. I'll bet I hand fly ~5 minutes of any typical trip, i almost always have stec doing the work. But I'd never fly the fiske arrival without having a hand on the wheel at all times, there is just too many things to hit there.

and i think you need to reconsider the OP's situation. 1) he's not comfortable flying slow, to the point that he thinks 90 kts in an RV is "slow", and 2) he didn't know his autopilot would work at 90 kts. That's not the sort of proficient use of the autopilot that leads to greater awareness of traffic.
Click to expand...

That.
 
JHW said:
and i think you need to reconsider the OP's situation. 1) he's not comfortable flying slow, to the point that he thinks 90 kts in an RV is "slow", and 2) he didn't know his autopilot would work at 90 kts. That's not the sort of proficient use of the autopilot that leads to greater awareness of traffic.
Click to expand...

Point taken. But there is a lot of time between now and Oshkosh to get it figured out. ;)
 
JHW said:
Not at all biased, greg. I'll bet I hand fly ~5 minutes of any typical trip, i almost always have stec doing the work. But I'd never fly the fiske arrival without having a hand on the wheel at all times, there is just too many things to hit there.

and i think you need to reconsider the OP's situation. 1) he's not comfortable flying slow, to the point that he thinks 90 kts in an RV is "slow", and 2) he didn't know his autopilot would work at 90 kts. That's not the sort of proficient use of the autopilot that leads to greater awareness of traffic.
Click to expand...
I always forget that many readers here can't identify or detect humor, sarcasm, or tongue in cheek posts, even with smileys.

So, for the impaired, I am:

1. Proficient with my autopilot
2. Proficient at slow flight.
3. Know the autopilot works at 90 knots.

Good grief. It was not a serious suggestion, and I would never fly the approach on autopilot.

Next, I will suggest flying the whole approach while inverted. Gee, I wonder if my autopilot works when upside down? lol
 
jesse said:
I would get comfortable all the way down to that point including flying at that point. I've seen the arrival as slow as 70 knots.
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Don't I know it! I flew the whole approach in '99 at 70 knots, with a notch of flaps in the Warrior, stuck behind a Champ.

One year ('05?) Mary got stuck behind a guy in a Debonair who did a remarkable job of holding 80 knots throughout the approach while not following a single ATC instruction correctly. Unfortunately, Mary was told to "follow the Bonanza", which meant she was stuck going the wrong way, too.

Then, there was the year... but you get the idea. The FISK approach is always fun, and definitely not something you should do on autopilot.
 
JHW said:
and i think you need to reconsider the OP's situation. 1) he's not comfortable flying slow, to the point that he thinks 90 kts in an RV is "slow", and 2) he didn't know his autopilot would work at 90 kts. That's not the sort of proficient use of the autopilot that leads to greater awareness of traffic.
Click to expand...

It appear your conclusion is based almost entirely on assumptions. It actually doesn't seem like a horrible idea to me to let George hold course and altitude and then nudge his course at landmarks. And of course you're going to be alert and looking around in what is probably the busiest air space in the world. Of course you're going to have a hand on the yoke ready to take over. Of course you don't stop being a pilot.

Jay Honeck said:
Next, I will suggest flying the whole approach while inverted. Gee, I wonder if my autopilot works when upside down? lol
Click to expand...

Hmmm, flying inverted would make spotting landmarKs a bit easier. Perhaps you have something there.
 
Jay Honeck said:
[...] Next, I will suggest flying the whole approach while inverted. Gee, I wonder if my autopilot works when upside down? lol
Click to expand...

Don't forget to turn your GoPro on and to share the Youtube-link. :D
 
Jay Honeck said:
Next, I will suggest flying the whole approach while inverted. Gee, I wonder if my autopilot works when upside down? lol
Click to expand...

Sounds like an experiment to try.

Well not to fly the FISKE inverted, but to see if it works inverted at all.

Of course one would have to be proficient at inverted flight to try it. :yes::D
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Sounds like an experiment to try.

Well not to fly the FISKE inverted, but to see if it works inverted at all.

Of course one would have to be proficient at inverted flight to try it. :yes::D
Click to expand...

Oh, and make sure you have inverted fuel and oil systems. And take a dust buster to clean out the top of the canopy while inverted-gets all the crud out of the bottom of the airplane.

John

P.S. :D
 
I thought that FISKE was an imaginary airways intersection near the town of Fisk.

I thought the approach to Oshkosh during EAA was the Fisk approach due to the controllers on the farm near the town.

Jim


.
 
weirdjim said:
I thought that FISKE was an imaginary airways intersection near the town of Fisk.

I thought the approach to Oshkosh during EAA was the Fisk approach due to the controllers on the farm near the town.

Jim


.
Click to expand...
You are correct.

Dammit, unfortunately I can only stay inverted for a few seconds, thanks to my current engine set up. Therefore, I will do the FISK approach in a 1-G barrel roll, from Ripon to Oshkosh.

To pull this off, I will need a block of altitude between the high and the low approaches.

I am currently in discussion with TruTrack to see if modifications can be made so that George can maintain a heading whilst barrel rolling. I will let you know how that goes.
 
bflynn said:
Hmmm, flying inverted would make spotting landmarKs a bit easier. Perhaps you have something there.
Click to expand...

To this day, after flying the Fisk approach many times, both as a passenger and as a PIC, I've never spotted the ATC trailer. Not even once.

Surely I would see them whilst inverted, with our bubble canopy?
 
Jay Honeck said:
You are correct.

Dammit, unfortunately I can only stay inverted for a few seconds, thanks to my current engine set up. Therefore, I will do the FISK approach in a 1-G barrel roll, from Ripon to Oshkosh.

To pull this off, I will need a block of altitude between the high and the low approaches.

I am currently in discussion with TruTrack to see if modifications can be made so that George can maintain a heading whilst barrel rolling. I will let you know how that goes.
Click to expand...

You can do a 1-G barrel roll?
 
Jay Honeck said:
To this day, after flying the Fisk approach many times, both as a passenger and as a PIC, I've never spotted the ATC trailer. Not even once.
Click to expand...

Seriously? They used to be on the port side of the (noninverted) aircraft on a grassy knoll with lots of weather balloons tied down. Now they are on the starboard side near a milk barn on the other side of Ripon Road.

Funny? Do you have to swap nav light color lenses if you continuously fly inverted? Swapping port for starboard?


Jim
.
 
Jay Honeck said:
Ha. No, we use the autopilot on flights of any duration. It's a real godsend on cross country flights, and the TruTrack, slaved to our EFIS, is an amazing tool.

But I've never used it in slow flight before -- and it never occurred to me to use it whilst flying up the railroad tracks on the FISK approach! Dang, it just doesn't seem fair to everyone else, as they're fighting to hold altitude, for me to just sit there reading a good book, letting George do it...

;)
Click to expand...

Also wonderful for the Hudson River corridor next to NYC.
 
weirdjim said:
Seriously? They used to be on the port side of the (noninverted) aircraft on a grassy knoll with lots of weather balloons tied down. Now they are on the starboard side near a milk barn on the other side of Ripon Road.

Funny? Do you have to swap nav light color lenses if you continuously fly inverted? Swapping port for starboard?


Jim
.
Click to expand...

Naw, much simpler than that, just buy the color selectable LED's for recognition and install an up and down switch.
 
tmyers said:
Naw, much simpler than that, just buy the color selectable LED's for recognition and install an up and down switch.
Click to expand...

Gravity operated mercury switch to auto switch the LEDs as you roll...

Go all in man!
 
JoeSelch said:
You can do a 1-G barrel roll?
Click to expand...
Why, yes, yes I can. :)

Done properly, ala Bob Hoover, I can leave my cellphone setting on my knee throughout the roll, maintaining ~1G all the way around.

If you weren't looking out the windscreen, you might not know the plane was rolling.

I think that would be an AWESOME way to fly up the railroad tracks to Oshkosh, meself.

I wonder what the boys on the FAA trailer would do? lol
 
Now you've done it. Someone is going to do barrel rolls on the approach and then blame you for suggesting them ;)
 
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