Who's at fault here?

AuntPeggy said:
The mechanic who told us the story believed the CFI was at fault. I don't know how old the student pilot was, but since it was at the university, I'd guess about 18 or 19. According to the mechanic, the student is still flying. Didn't say whether the CFI is still teaching.

I also noticed the NTSB report doesn't mention the CFI. They cite the student only for the accident. hmmm.
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I'd blame the CFI, too.

The first solo is no time for mental* overload. I suspect I'd have been be very susceptible to the same mistake.

As I taxied clear on my first solo landing my frickin' pager went off. I threw it out the pilot's window.

(*Heh. At first the other side of my brain typed metal overload. I'm amazed every day how my fingers can type something other than what the dominant lobe intends, and I've had cases where it's much more than a simple spelling difference. Sometimes a full sentence. No I'm not schizo. Shaddup! I'm talking! :D)
 
In the eyes of the FAA the student is just that a student, however the CFI is usually held accountable for what they teach or don’t teach. The NTSB report is not complete, but just the high lights.

I would think the CFI was called in for the local FSDO.


Just one man's opinion.
 
Greg Bockelman said:
Why would that happen?
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If you were to turn off the mags, for the remaining revolutions until the prop stopped, fuel would still be flowing to the engine as if it was on.

Maybe it's a miniscule amount, I don't know... It's just what my pea brain came up with as making more sense. :dunno:
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I was also thinking that I'd like any fuel that's going into the engine to be burned in the engine rather than pouring out the carb after shutdown.
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I was assuming that you would pull the mixture after or as you shut off the mags. The windmilling prop turning the engine will clear the fuel from the cylinders once you pull the mixture, but very little fuel will be present in the carb throat, intake manifold, cylinders, and exhaust even if you leave the mixture at full rich because the airflow through the engine is blowing it out the exhaust. A carb's float bowl will still be full of fuel regardless.
 
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lancefisher said:
I was assuming that you would pull the mixture after or as you shut off the mags. The windmilling prop turning the engine will clear the fuel from the cylinders once you pull the mixture, but very little fuel will be present in the carb throat, intake manifold, cylinders, and exhaust even if you leave the mixture at full rich because the airflow through the engine is blowing it out the exhaust. A carb's float bowl will still be full of fuel regardless.
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I was figuring that on a rejected takeoff the prop would not be windmilling.

I also need to learn more about carbs (and fuel injection too!).
 
flyingcheesehead said:
If you were to turn off the mags, for the remaining revolutions until the prop stopped, fuel would still be flowing to the engine as if it was on.

Maybe it's a miniscule amount, I don't know... It's just what my pea brain came up with as making more sense. :dunno:
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Correct, 'long as the prop is turning, the fuel will most likely keep flowing through the engine just like it was running sending a a fuel/air mixture out the exhaust(assuming a carburetor / mechanical fuel injection that is supplied by an engine driven pump and/or gravity which is most piston aircraft).

Define minuscule - with a little luck, if you turn the spark back on, you can get a nice "bang" in the exhaust. The muffler will usually survive.
 
I would define an RTO as the aborting of a Take Off prior to the plane being able to fly.

The only one I have done for real involved a sheared pin iin the nose gear. At power up the shimmy was like nothing I had experienced before so a basic "that's not right". Pull the power, stop, taxi to the hangar.

I learned and beleive an RTO is a transition from a normal take off to a short field landing. Power out, maximum braking.
 
flyingcheesehead said:
I was figuring that on a rejected takeoff the prop would not be windmilling.
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In that case, there wouldn't be any fuel flowing anywhere.

But as I said before, most single engine RTOs involve things other than engine/power issues, IMO.

In fact there are darned few things I can think of that would cause me to want to do an engine shutdown during/after an RTO.
 
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AuntPeggy said:
Sounds like the teaching staff at UNI ought to re-think their policy. Teach what is expected - seems like it would be a good policy to me.
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Yes, I agree. His words remind me of the NTSB report of a solo student crashing her 152 after a real engine failure. She did the emergency procedures exactly as she had been taught--she only touched or pointed to the correct knob, switch, lever, etc.
 
Richard said:
Yes, I agree. His words remind me of the NTSB report of a solo student crashing her 152 after a real engine failure. She did the emergency procedures exactly as she had been taught--she only touched or pointed to the correct knob, switch, lever, etc.
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I was training a guy in a Supercub...gave him an engine failure, told him to work it through. Carb heat, switch tanks, check mags, etc.

Well, he's a fairly big boy, and it was kinda chilly out, so he had a bulky coat on...I couldn't see that he switched from the left tank to OFF. While attempting to clear the engine, I discovered that it wasn't actually running!:eek:

Naturally, going through the procedure again solved the problem, but we were a little lower than I cared for before the engine started running again.

So...not only should they actually operate the correct knob, switch, lever, etc., the CFI should ensure that it's operated CORRECTLY. Primacy is a wonderful thing.

Fly safe!

David
 
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