Who says our medical system isn't corrupt?

My mother was fat for many years and needed a cocktail of pills. After husband number two checked out (along with most of her cognitive abilities) she lost all kinds of weight and became a skinny little old woman. Most of the underlying medical problems subsequently went TU and now she isn't on much more than a multivitamin.
 
I say this to everyone, if you don't need them, why take them?

I see older folks taking a huge cocktail of pills and can't hardly believe its good for them or not creating a bigger problem.

Well certainly individual cases have to be taken separately, but I would suggest that you have malpractice insurance in place in case any of your patients don't do so well based on your blanket advice...Oh that's right, you don't have to take ANY responsibility for your statements... I on the other hand can't be quite so cavalier with my advice.

I would suggest it is never as simple as, your taking a lot of pills ...must be unnecessary.
 
Guys like me are dinosaurs. The situation today where layers of bureaucrats - federal/state/insurers - who could not diagnose a hang nail have put themselves in positions of power where they rate my performance and decide what my pay will be means that from now on no doctor will be able to simply hang out a shingle and start seeing patients. A young doc has to go to work for an existing business that has the people to push the paperwork through the system. Obamacare is just the final nail in that coffin.

dr. o
Those of us who are still working envy the physicians who have retired. Our private specialty group that had been in existence over 20 years recently sold out to become hospital employees. We did not like giving up our autonomy but there was no reasonable alternative. Even you might be surprised what it takes to satisfy the ever growing requirement from CMS. Our hospital has a physician and several nurses whose full time job is to assist providers deal with all of the confusing rules and regulation.
 
How would you feel if the entire pilot community was judged by the actions of Peter Flemming, or Daniel Abernath. That is exactly waht we are doing here.....

um, I hope you realize that my tin foil comment wasn't directed at you. My post was in reply to the OP.
 
Well certainly individual cases have to be taken separately, but I would suggest that you have malpractice insurance in place in case any of your patients don't do so well based on your blanket advice...Oh that's right, you don't have to take ANY responsibility for your statements... I on the other hand can't be quite so cavalier with my advice.

I would suggest it is never as simple as, your taking a lot of pills ...must be unnecessary.

You dont think polypharmacy is a major problem ?

Took me years and a change of PCPs for her to get grandma off the 10-bottle mix that shed ended up between a PCP who liked drugs, a cardiologist and a pulmonologist, each of whom apparently didn't bother to look at what the other one had prescribed. She did a lot better once she was down to 3.
 
You dont think polypharmacy is a major problem ?

Took me years and a change of PCPs for her to get grandma off the 10-bottle mix that shed ended up between a PCP who liked drugs, a cardiologist and a pulmonologist, each of whom apparently didn't bother to look at what the other one had prescribed. She did a lot better once she was down to 3.


It’s pretty easy to slip through the cracks and not get adequate coordination on drugs prescribed...
 
You dont think polypharmacy is a major problem ?

Took me years and a change of PCPs for her to get grandma off the 10-bottle mix that shed ended up between a PCP who liked drugs, a cardiologist and a pulmonologist, each of whom apparently didn't bother to look at what the other one had prescribed. She did a lot better once she was down to 3.
Training in geriatrics for most primary care providers is probably inadequate. One of the geriatricians I trained under emphasized minimizing the number of medications prescribed to the elderly. He would usually stop all medications when he admitted somebody unless they were keeping the patient alive and add some of them back gradually if there was a really strong indication. That was almost 20 years ago. Now CMS won't let us keep somebody long enough in the hospital to employ that strategy.

We ask the patients or caretakers to bring all medications or supplements to an office visit. The down side is that we often go through a dozen or so goofy supplements like grape seed extract to get to the real meds.
 
It’s pretty easy to slip through the cracks and not get adequate coordination on drugs prescribed...


They do this to keep you sick. If you are well you will not come back. The better a person feels the less they go to a doctor.

As soon as you hit a certain age they start prescribing you drugs automatically. I just went through this with a friend and his Mom. He told me, they where throwing drugs at her for no reason,they asked her age and said she needs these. Just because of age.

Its all about profit margins folks...
 
You dont think polypharmacy is a major problem ?

Took me years and a change of PCPs for her to get grandma off the 10-bottle mix that shed ended up between a PCP who liked drugs, a cardiologist and a pulmonologist, each of whom apparently didn't bother to look at what the other one had prescribed. She did a lot better once she was down to 3.

I did not suggest that in the least, I said you have to take it on an individual basis. Sometimes people do require multiple medications, and you have to watch closely for the interactions and further problems...

Medicine is not black and white, people are not machines, which is why blanket statements rarely have much merit, and your individual experience with your individual Grandmother does not necessarily translate to the next patient's situation. And I am glad you were able to help your Grandmother become healthier.
 
They do this to keep you sick. If you are well you will not come back. The better a person feels the less they go to a doctor.

As soon as you hit a certain age they start prescribing you drugs automatically. I just went through this with a friend and his Mom. He told me, they where throwing drugs at her for no reason,they asked her age and said she needs these. Just because of age.

Its all about profit margins folks...
I'm sure that there are crummy physicians but if you really believe the primary purpose of modern medicine is to make a buck at the expense of the patient's health you are terribly misguided.
 
I'm sure that there are crummy physicians but if you really believe the primary purpose of modern medicine is to make a buck at the expense of the patient's health you are terribly misguided.

The problem is we get more crummy physicians as time goes by. While it may not be the primary purpose of medicine (I'm really not sure what the primary purpose of medicine is anymore, 30 years ago it was obvious, now it's a lot blurrier.) but it sure does come across as an underlying theme.
 
I'm sure that there are crummy physicians but if you really believe the primary purpose of modern medicine is to make a buck at the expense of the patient's health you are terribly misguided.


Really..tell that to our 6 year old whom needed a certain surgery but because we did not have the funds or insurance a group of people said this surgery was not needed.
Then we find out yes indeed he does need this surgery but the time has lapsed, he died a year later.
Do not tell me money does not drive our health care.
 
I'm sure that there are crummy physicians but if you really believe the primary purpose of modern medicine is to make a buck at the expense of the patient's health you are terribly misguided.


Sex change clinics come to mind
 
The problem is we get more crummy physicians as time goes by. While it may not be the primary purpose of medicine (I'm really not sure what the primary purpose of medicine is anymore, 30 years ago it was obvious, now it's a lot blurrier.) but it sure does come across as an underlying theme.
Who would want to study for years, accumulate huge debt, work long stressful hours just to be micromanaged by a bunch of bureaucrats while the general public believes that you are overpaid?
 
Who would want to study for years, accumulate huge debt, work long stressful hours just to be micromanaged by a bunch of bureaucrats while the general public believes that you are overpaid?

Absolutely not.

accumulate huge debt?


Didn't a lot of the older doctors and lawyers default on student loans back when that was possible :dunno:
 
Who would want to study for years, accumulate huge debt, work long stressful hours just to be micromanaged by a bunch of bureaucrats while the general public believes that you are overpaid?

Exactly, which is why we get crummier doctors every year along with the large wave of ESL doctors. Doctor as a career path is not much different from Pilot in that it is not what it used to be. Now you have this cadre of doctors so deep in debt they have to game the system just to get ahead.
 
Really..tell that to our 6 year old whom needed a certain surgery but because we did not have the funds or insurance a group of people said this surgery was not needed.
Then we find out yes indeed he does need this surgery but the time has lapsed, he died a year later.
Do not tell me money does not drive our health care.

How sad. I'm so sorry to hear that. :sad:
 
Sex change clinics come to mind

And fertility doctors. I know someone who did several rounds of IVF for $20,000 per cycle. She ended up going for treatment in Europe at one-tenth the cost. Same treatment for $2000.
 
And fertility doctors. I know someone who did several rounds of IVF for $20,000 per cycle. She ended up going for treatment in Europe at one-tenth the cost. Same treatment for $2000.

There is a full on racket.
 
You haven't made it available to mobile, whatever that means.


I have no idea how to do that either. I will look into it.




When we have those whom are traveling over sea's to get doctors care and such we have a problem. I do not care what anyone say's.

Some can not see the forest for the tree's.
 
And fertility doctors. I know someone who did several rounds of IVF for $20,000 per cycle. She ended up going for treatment in Europe at one-tenth the cost. Same treatment for $2000.

The reason that the EU's medical procedures are cheeper is simple. The people of the EU subsidize that program and the bureaucracy that runs it with up to 65% of their income.

And that is what is in store for the American tax payers when this bureaucracy get the ACA fully implemented.

Bottom line = free medical care, ain't.
 
Really..tell that to our 6 year old whom needed a certain surgery but because we did not have the funds or insurance a group of people said this surgery was not needed.
Then we find out yes indeed he does need this surgery but the time has lapsed, he died a year later.
Do not tell me money does not drive our health care.
Our highest highs and the lowest lows will always come from our children, and loosing one must be the lowest feeling of all.

Really sorry you lost your boy.
 
Medicine is not black and white, people are not machines, which is why blanket statements rarely have much merit, and your individual experience with your individual Grandmother does not necessarily translate to the next patient's situation. And I am glad you were able to help your Grandmother become healthier.

My statement is based on practicing medicine for the last 15 years, admitting patients, having to sign med-reconciliation, therapeutics committee work etc.

If you have 12meds as an outpatient, you have a sloppy PCP. If you have 12 meds in the ICU, you are probably not going to make it out alive.

I am not talking about the post-transplant onc patient, I am talking about your average granny who just gets drugs added with every admission and every new nurse practicioner at the corporate clinic she is forced to go to. Everyone clicks on the 'reconcile' button without ever wondering why the patient has two antihypertensives with the same mechanism of action.

If we wanted to cut healthcare cost, we would train more geriatricians and hospice specialists. But we don't actually want to.
 
The reason that the EU's medical procedures are cheeper is simple. The people of the EU subsidize that program and the bureaucracy that runs it with up to 65% of their income.

And that is what is in store for the American tax payers when this bureaucracy get the ACA fully implemented.

Bottom line = free medical care, ain't.

Yet they can still afford it along with fuel and housing prices that are higher than ours, why do you suppose that is?
 
The reason that the EU's medical procedures are cheeper is simple. The people of the EU subsidize that program and the bureaucracy that runs it with up to 65% of their income.

And that is what is in store for the American tax payers when this bureaucracy get the ACA fully implemented.

Bottom line = free medical care, ain't.

No, these are private medical clinics I'm talking about, and they are not free, just not as expensive. They are cheaper because their medical liability insurance isn't astronomical, they are not over burdened by bureaucracy, and the drugs are not as obscenely expensive as in the US. Read up about medical tourism. There is just something wrong if drugs sold in the US cost $6000, but in Europe cost less than $1000 (I'm using my friend's ivf drugs as an example).
 
Exactly, which is why we get crummier doctors every year along with the large wave of ESL doctors. Doctor as a career path is not much different from Pilot in that it is not what it used to be. Now you have this cadre of doctors so deep in debt they have to game the system just to get ahead.
We had a family medicine resident at this hospital who had over $500,000 in student debt. Not easy to repay on a $150,000 year salary.
 
My statement is based on practicing medicine for the last 15 years, admitting patients, having to sign med-reconciliation, therapeutics committee work etc.

If you have 12meds as an outpatient, you have a sloppy PCP. If you have 12 meds in the ICU, you are probably not going to make it out alive.

I am not talking about the post-transplant onc patient, I am talking about your average granny who just gets drugs added with every admission and every new nurse practicioner at the corporate clinic she is forced to go to. Everyone clicks on the 'reconcile' button without ever wondering why the patient has two antihypertensives with the same mechanism of action.

If we wanted to cut healthcare cost, we would train more geriatricians and hospice specialists. But we don't actually want to.

Weilke you seem to be talking past me not to me...I do not disagree with your goal of having folks only on necessary meds and no more, but it needs to be dealt with on an individual basis, and it takes the ability to know your patient well and to be able to spend time with them...both are much more difficult today.

And it's not always because they have a sloppy PCP, sometimes it's difficult to convince Granny and the family that she doesn't need her pain pill and her nerve pill and her sleeping pill that she demands and will get from another Doc without your knowledge if you refuse to prescribe.

I also agree with your desire to have more Geriatricians and Hospice Doctors, but the reason we do not have them goes back to the very heart of this wayward discussion...these are very low paying specialties which makes it hard to attract people willing to take on the extra training...Even after the 15 years I have been practicing, I still owe too much in student loans to ever specialize in these areas, and I applaud the work of Hospice docs...I think they are wonderful folks who do a very important service.
 
We had a family medicine resident at this hospital who had over $500,000 in student debt. Not easy to repay on a $150,000 year salary.

That's another issue here in America, the cost of education.
 
H. A. S. I too sympathize with the loss of your child. My deepest condolences and wishes for some comfort in your life from something so tragic and horrible.
 
That's another issue here in America, the cost of education.
That included undergrad, grad school and a Caribbean medical school. Not typical, more of an extreme example. In Europe you start medical school right out of high school but I get the impression that their HS (gymnasium) is much more rigorous than ours.
 
That included undergrad, grad school and a Caribbean medical school. Not typical, more of an extreme example. In Europe you start medical school right out of high school but I get the impression that their HS (gymnasium) is much more rigorous than ours.

It's a much different system. Gymnasium isn't really like HS, it's Prep School, and not everyone is chosen to go (families don't decide, their educators do), others go to tech schools, trade schools and apprenticeships. You are also likely to have a couple of years of public service to do at 18.
 
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