Which plane for instrument training?

[BrianR]

Having decided it's time to start on my instrument rating, the club to which I belong has two, both IFR-equipped and certified: a Warrior, and a 182. The differences are, the 182 has the STEC 60 and the Garmin 430 (non-WAAS), while the Warrior has no autopilot and an old Garmin 300XL. Both have second comm radios, two VOR receivers, GS and localizer. The Warrior also has DME. The Warrior is $100 per hour, while the 182 commands $135 per hour.

Of the two, I much prefer the 182 for any kind of long distance travel. Once completing the rating, I assume if I were to actually fly in IMC, chances are it would be in the 182.

However, as for instrument training, I'm pretty sure the presence of an autopilot isn't really a consideration, as I doubt the CFII will spend much time having me use that, since he knows it can keep the airplane right side up and pointing where it's supposed to be.

So does it make more sense to conduct the training in the airplane which I'd most likely use, or does it make more sense to save the extra $35 per hour ($1400 over the course of 40 hours, not insignificant) and just use the Warrior?

I'm fairly comfortable using the 430, for VFR operations anyway, and wonder whether the learning curve for instrument flight is steep enough it would be worthwhile to do the training in that airplane...or is that a silly reason to spend the extra $$$?

i know which way I'm leaning, but am curious what others have to say.

 

[GMascelli]

I would save the $ and train with the warrior. It's not a big leap to the 430 and there is the garmin online sim to learn the buttonology. Besides, you can always take another pilot along or your CFII, and for a flight or two explore the 430 in flight.

I flew an archer with the 300XL for years. When I purchased my Sundowner it had the Garmin 530 unit. I used the sim for a week to learn the buttonology then flew to texas to close the deal and bring the plane home. I had no problems.

Good luck with your training, the IR is worth the work and it really makes flying GA useful.

 

[FlyBoyAndy]

Ask the club to upgrade the GPS. Selfish, I know.

 

[CJones]

I suggest you train in the plane you are currently most comfortable with. You're going to be learning a new way of thinking in regards to flying the airplane and some good muscle memory about switches and knobs will make life a little easier under the hood. Once you have the IR ticket, transitioning to a new a/c isn't that big of a deal, but your first few hours under the hood can be a sweat-fest (if you have a good instructor ).

 

[alfadog]

Given the fact that the 182 has the 430 and you plan on flying the 182 in the future, it is a no-brainer for me. 182.

 

[Threefingeredjack]

My thoughts are if money is the prime consideration then fly the cheaper plane. If not the advice to use the 182 because you plan on it in the future is the way to go. Instrument flying is mostly between the ears, and transitioning to a different cockpit isn't a huge hurdle as long as the planes are in a similar class.

You will notice that your flying in general will take a step up the scale as far as smoothness and coordination goes, and the habits of briefing and planning will carry over into your VFR flying and make that aspect more "professional" as well. IMHO, everyone should work towards their rating. My training was a seamless blend from basic to IFR as the military track is kinda like drinking from a firehose. You won't be sorry.

 

[poadeleted20]

Of the two, I much prefer the 182 for any kind of long distance travel. Once completing the rating, I assume if I were to actually fly in IMC, chances are it would be in the 182.

Then train in the 182.

However, as for instrument training, I'm pretty sure the presence of an autopilot isn't really a consideration, as I doubt the CFII will spend much time having me use that, since he knows it can keep the airplane right side up and pointing where it's supposed to be.

Your instructor should spend as much time as necessary to get you proficient in the operation of the autopilot because if an autopilot is installed, you must demonstrate proficiency with it during the practical test, including at least on one of your nonprecision approaches. In addition, an autopilot can make a lot of things easier, including keeping the plane upright while you're reprogramming the GPS or digging out the chart for the next approach.

So does it make more sense to conduct the training in the airplane which I'd most likely use,

Yes.

or does it make more sense to save the extra $35 per hour ($1400 over the course of 40 hours, not insignificant) and just use the Warrior?

First, it shouldn't take 40 hours of flying to get your IR -- more like half that if a good sim is used. Second, if you're not going to be flying that plane later, you're going to need some checkout time on the other plane after you get your IR anyway, and that will probably be several hours of training.

I'm fairly comfortable using the 430, for VFR operations anyway, and wonder whether the learning curve for instrument flight is steep enough it would be worthwhile to do the training in that airplane...or is that a silly reason to spend the extra $$$?

If you've been using the 430, and haven't been using the 300, then you're already ahead of the game for the 182, and behind the game for the Warrior, because the 300 doesn't work like the 430 and is significantly harder to learn thanks to its far more primative user interface. Consider that another reason to go with the 182.

 

[BrianR]

Ask the club to upgrade the GPS. Selfish, I know.

Good idea...although Stefan says consideration is being given to buying a Stratus. That's probably the upgrade budget for the year...

 

[alfadog]

Good idea...although Stefan says consideration is being given to buying a Stratus. That's probably the upgrade budget for the year...

Then there is certainly no budget for a 430W.

 

[BrianR]

Then there is certainly no budget for a 430W.

Well, I was being facetious. A WAAS upgrade would be nice. As would a GPS in the Warrior manufactured in, say, the last decade. Membership is up. But the club leadership seems pretty conservative financially, and discussions on upgrades seem to get shot down pretty quickly. I'll leave it at that. We shall see.

 

[BillTIZ]

Good idea...although Stefan says consideration is being given to buying a Stratus. That's probably the upgrade budget for the year...

A portable stratus for use with everyone's personal iPad and Foreflight?
Portables in a flying club are hard to control, easy to disappear and always has dead batteries.

If people own an iPad and want a stratus, I'd tell them to buy their own.
Yes, I'm one of those tightwad club board members.

Buying an asset for the club use that not everyone can use is not "fair" to those not using an iPad or ForeFlight, perhaps flying with different software or maybe not even owning a personal tablet for aviation use.

 

[ZeroPapaGolf]

A portable stratus for use with everyone's personal iPad and Foreflight?
Portables in a flying club are hard to control, easy to disappear and always has dead batteries.

If people own an iPad and want a stratus, I'd tell them to buy their own.
Yes, I'm one of those tightwad club board members.

Buying an asset for the club use that not everyone can use is not "fair" to those not using an iPad or ForeFlight, perhaps flying with different software or maybe not even owning a personal tablet for aviation use.

I agree. Improve the airplane before buying portable goodies.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I777 using Tapatalk 2

 

[j1b3h0]

Warrior. If the airplane has a workable panel, it will help you become a good instrument pilot. Save the 182 for after the checkride. You will appreciate the 182 a lot more after having learned in the Piper.

 

[jbarrass]

Learn in what you're going to fly. Plus the 430 skills are much more transferable than the 300XL.

Do learn the autopilot. It is not hard and it is a very useful tool.

You won't save the $1,400 because you'll end up spending it transitioning to the plane you wanted in the beginning....IMHO

 

[nddons]

Your instructor should spend as much time as necessary to get you proficient in the operation of the autopilot because if an autopilot is installed, you must demonstrate proficiency with it during the practical test, including at least on one of your nonprecision approaches. In addition, an autopilot can make a lot of things easier, including keeping the plane upright while you're reprogramming the GPS or digging out the chart for the next approach.

Ron is spot on here. I got my IR a little less than 2 years ago in a 172R with an auto pilot, and my instructor had me learn it well, and use it when necessary. That didn't mean cruising all over with the AP on; it meant putting on the AP or at least altitude hold while flipping approach plates, briefing the approach, and otherwise when the workload was high. I was fortunate to gain 9-10 hours of actual IMC during my training, and I found it's really, really easy to deviate from heading or altitude when you're in the clouds, moving your head from the instruments to the approach plate to the instruments back to the approach plate, etc. Having that AP available is good CRM, and that is probably how you will fly real IFR.

Go with the 182.