Which is the best re-builder

Tom-D

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Tom-D
On the other thread we talk about flipping aircraft buy low fly a little sell for profit.

In your opinion what type of aircraft will be the most profitable

Rag and tube
Antique classic
all aluminum.
E/AB

just curious about which you think you can make the most money?
 
I think alum, but what do I know.

Why? Volume. Supply. Demand. Better odds of finding a low one to purchase and then better odds of finding a buyer to take interest. Just a volume thing I would think?
 
Aerobatic tube and fabric or classic biplanes.
I have been doing this for a number of years. I have bought a bunch of planes. I fly them for awhile and sell. I sold a few just from people walking up making a offer and they were not even listed. If you have something nice and unique it will sell. You can't make a good profit on a 172 or other spam can because there are a millon of them for sale. I have doubled my money on a few planes. Here are a few I bought, flew and resold.
540 powered Skybolt
Decathlon
Pitts S-2C
Pitts model 12
Several Christen Eagles (I have 2 Eagles for sale now)
Staudacher S-300D
J-3 Cub
 
There ya go, experience talking. The opposite of what I woulda thunk.
 
Yeah I was thinking tube/fabric or classic also. Most are tail draggers and folks sometimes feel they missed the good old days so this is what they may buy. Just look at how much Cubs have appreciated. Knew a pilot who restored classic cars, had a 57 TBird on a trailer fully restored at a car show, and sold it before they even had it off the trailer. Same with these old planes I think.
 
Here's another one I feel money could be made,
Of course every one knows I love a 170


53 CESSNA 170
 
that is why its 14k

Who knows what a wash and wax would do? :)

How much does a Franklin overhaul cost? Other Stinsons in good working order aren't that much more expensive. If I recall correctly there was a really nice looking one for $30k or so. Unless it has a big engine or floats or something unique it seems like $30k is the top end of the market this plane is in.
 
One of the big problems with this plan is that sellers tend to overvalue airplanes with problems. "Your mechanic says the engine is shot and it needs a 20k overhaul? Ah heck, you're right. I'll knock 5k off the price". By the time you take a buying price + repairs, you're likely to be have way more than the market value into the aircraft.
 
On the other thread we talk about flipping aircraft buy low fly a little sell for profit.

In your opinion what type of aircraft will be the most profitable

Rag and tube
Antique classic
all aluminum.
E/AB

just curious about which you think you can make the most money?

Tom-D:
Hands down fabric aircraft. With a close 2nd certain classics. Main reason is simple supply and demand. How many fabric guys have we lost in the last 10 years?

Also, since building aircraft from salvage became harder to get a standard AW certificate I don’t see as many classics flying as I used to. For example, it seems like more Stearmans are ending up in museums than being flown to Galesburg. Maybe it’s just the areas I travel now, but the 3 Stearmans I worked on over the years are gone due to owners can’t fly or died and the younger guys want something a little more sporty.

On the other hand, certain markets can make any aircraft profitable. For example, repairing 172s targeted for flight schools, or if you had an inroad to the Alaska market any airframe that was popular and bush-worthy like a Taylorcraft or 207 would be profitable. However, I believe the margins on fabric would still be higher.

I built a shop specifically to work either a 2 place fabric or Cessna 100 series project after I retired. But the shop hasn’t seen an airplane, or aircraft part for that matter, except 2 props and a set of T/R blades I hope to make clocks out of one day. Instead I have 2 old tractors as my projects and my boat. I still do the odd aviation job but it’s at a different level and much more lucrative. However, had I stayed the course my annual project plan was for Super Cubs built for the bush, with an occasional 172 if the demand was there. Even recovering bent tail-feathers and flight controls can make some good beer money.

As for E/AB or E-LSA aircraft I wouldn’t know, but the S-LSA market might be interesting to look at. I don’t know the resale market of the S-LSA, but since it’s a plug and play aircraft where an owner can easily get a repairman-mx ticket and perform his own mx… might be a new area to pursue.
 
Is there anyone restoring helos, or are their parts just too expensive?
 
Is there anyone restoring helos, or are their parts just too expensive?

It’s not so much the parts side, but the operational side of a helicopter. I think a better term would be “repair/refurb” as a majority of helicopters are still working for a living rather than someone’s “weekender” to pass the time. Heck, the last military UH-1H Huey just left active-duty status in Dec 2016.

So it’s a different demographic than an old Stinson or Stearman as most helicopter owners maintain their machines at a higher level and fly more than 100 hours a year. In comparison, a current popular helicopter model with private owners (Robbie R22) has a shelf life of 2200hrs/12yr before it needs a complete factory rebuild. So there is no option not to "restore" it. But this is the exception not the norm.

There are some models that have been actually “restored” like older Bell 47s and the original Sikorsky R-4s (UK Hoverfly above) but mostly by museums, associations, etc due to the cost of such work and no ROI. But there are some nostalgic private owners out there who have spent the coin to do this. On the other hand, someone bought the TC for the 47 a few years ago and has started building new Bell 47s. So there may be a resurgence on that model.

Throw in the amount of rotable and life-limited parts on a helicopter and you not only increase the expense but reduce their availability. The first things to go on legacy acft are transmission cases as none have been produced in eons. Then there is traceability of parts especially if a particular model had an equivalent military model like the Bell 205 vs the UH-1. The whole bogus part/salvage rebuild issue was dealt its final blow by several asinine helicopter shops looking to make a quick buck.

So yes its more expensive on one side, but it's harder to spend that kind of money just to fly it 100hrs a year or sit parked when some things time out calendar wise, as compared to say rebuilding a vintage Stearman where your $75,000 ground up restoration is good for the next 50 years if you take care of it.
 
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Work planes are the best rebuilders in my opinion. Cessna 206, 182, Supercub, etc..
 
On the other thread we talk about flipping aircraft buy low fly a little sell for profit.

In your opinion what type of aircraft will be the most profitable

Rag and tube
Antique classic
all aluminum.
E/AB

just curious about which you think you can make the most money?
I think there's lots of variables and every airplane having unique "problems" isn't it impossible to answer with a one size fits all response. Also kinda depends if you are an A&P working on your airplane in your spare time, and if you have areas of expertise, or you are an investor and paying an A&P to do the work
 
I think there's lots of variables and every airplane having unique "problems" isn't it impossible to answer with a one size fits all response. Also kinda depends if you are an A&P working on your airplane in your spare time, and if you have areas of expertise, or you are an investor and paying an A&P to do the work
It really was an open question asking for opinions, Apparently you don't have one.
I wasn't asking for a 1 size fits all answer.
 
I'm pretty sure he articulated his opinion quite clearly, Tom. Maybe you just don't have adequate reading comprehension skills to absorb it.

Or, maybe, just maybe, as usual, you want to fight just for the sake of fighting.
 
I think there is a floor value wise that wouldn't make sense to go below. I think it would be hard to get ones money back after overhauling a c150 for example.
 
the only planes worth fixing up are free ones, working ones, or highly collectable ones.
 
I'm pretty sure he articulated his opinion quite clearly, Tom. Maybe you just don't have adequate reading comprehension skills to absorb it.

Or, maybe, just maybe, as usual, you want to fight just for the sake of fighting.
Thank You Timmy, for another post of thread creep and insults, seems all you post.
but if you read glen better than me, show me where he made the statement which of the choices he thinks would be most lucrative as a flip.
 
Glenn wouldn't mess with any of those, he'd get some investors and look for biz jet deals. Your list, shows again, your lack of understanding how broad GA is.
 
Thank You Timmy, for another post of thread creep and insults, seems all you post.
but if you read glen better than me, show me where he made the statement which of the choices he thinks would be most lucrative as a flip.
Tom- you are free to start these threads, and we are just as free to reply, even if you don't like the opinions posted. @GlennAB1 gave a reasonable answer, not insulting, and opined it wasn't a sample answer.
@timwinters merely replied using the same tone you did.

We are also free to creep your threads in any direction we want too. I think comments from the Shakespearean insult thread would work well in here :)
 
actually captain, winters replied in his typical way. Can't blame that on Tom.
 
Oh yah... Tom and Glenn never snipe at each other on PoA.

Except all the time.
 
@Tom-D, there are two ways to answer this question. The first is the type which you personally most prefer to rebuild. May be a money loser, but it brings you pleasure.

The second is the type/model which your acquisition cost + rebuild cost yields the most profit for the least expense.

I don’t think anyone here can give you a specific answer. You’ve admitted you have a soft spot for the C-170. Given that, I would advise you to follow the rabbit trail that either gives you the most pleasure or the most net profit.
 
@Tom-D, there are two ways to answer this question. The first is the type which you personally most prefer to rebuild. May be a money loser, but it brings you pleasure.

The second is the type/model which your acquisition cost + rebuild cost yields the most profit for the least expense.

I don’t think anyone here can give you a specific answer. You’ve admitted you have a soft spot for the C-170. Given that, I would advise you to follow the rabbit trail that either gives you the most pleasure or the most net profit.
Actually I don't do restorations anymore.
I posted to get the type of aircraft that was most lucrative to flip, because the other thread was talking about buying, fixing nd flying then selling for a profit.
A few great ideas, thanks for those, then the usual turned into a Pizzing contest.
 
It’s not so much the parts side, but the operational side of a helicopter. I think a better term would be “repair/refurb” as a majority of helicopters are still working for a living rather than someone’s “weekender” to pass the time. Heck, the last military UH-1H Huey just left active-duty status in Dec 2016.

So it’s a different demographic than an old Stinson or Stearman as most helicopter owners maintain their machines at a higher level and fly more than 100 hours a year. In comparison, a current popular helicopter model with private owners (Robbie R22) has a shelf life of 2200hrs/12yr before it needs a complete factory rebuild. So there is no option not to "restore" it. But this is the exception not the norm.

There are some models that have been actually “restored” like older Bell 47s and the original Sikorsky R-4s (UK Hoverfly above) but mostly by museums, associations, etc due to the cost of such work and no ROI. But there are some nostalgic private owners out there who have spent the coin to do this. On the other hand, someone bought the TC for the 47 a few years ago and has started building new Bell 47s. So there may be a resurgence on that model.

Throw in the amount of rotable and life-limited parts on a helicopter and you not only increase the expense but reduce their availability. The first things to go on legacy acft are transmission cases as none have been produced in eons. Then there is traceability of parts especially if a particular model had an equivalent military model like the Bell 205 vs the UH-1. The whole bogus part/salvage rebuild issue was dealt its final blow by several asinine helicopter shops looking to make a quick buck.

So yes its more expensive on one side, but it's harder to spend that kind of money just to fly it 100hrs a year or sit parked when some things time out calendar wise, as compared to say rebuilding a vintage Stearman where your $75,000 ground up restoration is good for the next 50 years if you take care of it.
Very enlightening, thanks for that.
 
Sorry no, Yes, I was critical of your post. but Timmy had to start with the insults.
you should have made your self clear on which of the types mention would have made the better type.
If I had wanted abstract thinking I would have asked for it.
 
Yeah I was thinking tube/fabric or classic also. Most are tail draggers and folks sometimes feel they missed the good old days so this is what they may buy. Just look at how much Cubs have appreciated. Knew a pilot who restored classic cars, had a 57 TBird on a trailer fully restored at a car show, and sold it before they even had it off the trailer. Same with these old planes I think.
Actually this does occur, most of my restorations were sold prior to being finished.
 
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