Which Cessna 17X is right? another 'which plane'

The 68 177 hasn't seen a scale that I'm aware of but by god on paper it has 875 useful.
 
bnt83 said:
Remember that "can save weight in wiring via 24 volt" nonsense that came up earlier? If I'm not mistaken all the S & SPs are 24...
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As is my 182, a good chunk of the weight can be found in the "26G" seats. They weigh a metric ass ton
 
Dan Thomas said:
The 172SP's useful load is smaller than the older 172s. Its empty weight is well over 1700 pounds. Ours weighed 300 pounds more than our 172M's and the gross was only 250 pounds more, for a net loss of 50 pounds. Since it carries more fuel to feed the 180 horses, you lose even more payload.

Dan
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I was referring to the converted M and N's. I wasn't clear.

I agree the SPs are fat pigs, and I've had similar experiences cramming more stuff into an M.
 
docmirror said:
Well, I just came back from looking at a fixer 175. Another rolling wreck I'm afraid. Asking 17k with only 300 hours on the engine OH. But, it needed just about everything else done. Paint was crap, int marginal, no wheelpants, no nav radio, headliner was grungy(may be corrosion in there), panel was fair, but showed plenty of age, hangar rash on the stab in back, flaps were pretty loose in the track, oil leaks from front and rear, door seals shot, etc.

Pretty sad. I think by the time I got it sorted well I'd have $16-20k in upgrades, and then I have a $25k plane with $40k invested.
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Why not simply fly the snot out of it. and throw it away when not worth fixing?
 
Tom-D said:
Why not simply fly the snot out of it. and throw it away when not worth fixing?
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My wife and kid would refuse to get in it. Not that there's anything wrong with that, but is seriously reduces the utility if I'm the only one that gets in and flies it.
 
Skylane81E said:
As is my 182, a good chunk of the weight can be found in the "26G" seats. They weigh a metric ass ton
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Do they ever. And isn't that rear seat fun to get in and out? What "engineer" designed that mounting arrangement?

Dan
 
I'd want the 177 or 170 for shear sexiness alone. All of them have pretty similar performance specs. The 177 is sexy as hell. No struts, excellent visibility, excellent ingress and egress. Great IFR platform.

The 170 is, well, a 170. You never get bored landing one.

You land in a 172. You arrive in a 170 or 177. :blowingkisses:
 
txflyer said:
I'd want the 177 or 170 for shear sexiness alone. All of them have pretty similar performance specs. The 177 is sexy as hell. No struts, excellent visibility, excellent ingress and egress. Great IFR platform.

The 170 is, well, a 170. You never get bored landing one.

You land in a 172. You arrive in a 170 or 177. :blowingkisses:
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txflyer said:
I'd want the 177 or 170 for shear sexiness alone. All of them have pretty similar performance specs. The 177 is sexy as hell. No struts, excellent visibility, excellent ingress and egress. Great IFR platform.

The 170 is, well, a 170. You never get bored landing one.

You land in a 172. You arrive in a 170 or 177. :blowingkisses:
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I think this is where I'm headed. Going to find a 67/68 177 with the 180 conv. Might have to go a bit over budget but will make wife and kid happy. Honestly, the 177 is the one I really like too. I thought I would like the 175, but not really.
 
docmirror said:
I think this is where I'm headed. Going to find a 67/68 177 with the 180 conv. Might have to go a bit over budget but will make wife and kid happy. Honestly, the 177 is the one I really like too. I thought I would like the 175, but not really.
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Pattern work is greatly improved because you're sitting ahead of the wing.

All will appreciate how easy they are to get in and out of, and not bumping their head on a strut. 170's can be a challenge to load up. I've found in my 180, and I'm assuming for 170's it's the same, it's best for pilot and co-pilot to load up, slide forward, and then let passengers get in the back. That's not the greatest with little kids standing there on the tarmac. They can get distracted and run off..... :mad2:

They make all kinds of speed parts for 177's, but I'd want to watch the weight trade off for those parts.
 
Some 177's are 12 volt, and some are 24. Watch that.

I can't remember which one most flyers prefer, but there is definitely one that ranks above the other.

That may only be on retracts though. My memory ain't what it used to be.
 
docmirror said:
I think this is where I'm headed. Going to find a 67/68 177 with the 180 conv. Might have to go a bit over budget but will make wife and kid happy. Honestly, the 177 is the one I really like too. I thought I would like the 175, but not really.
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All FG 177 are 12 volt.

Biggest things to look out for is black ventallation ducting above the headliner, through the wings to air inlets that lead to corrosion. Most ducts have been replaced but pulling the headliner on a prebuy is good insurance. the dumb carburetor duct and the unions that the carb heat duct and carb duct fasten to. The nose gear struts can corrode internally and then its virtually impossible to keep hydraulic fluid from leaking passed the floating piston into the air/gas side of the strut which is on the bottom. Air filler valve threads through the nose fork.
Hydraulid fluid filler plug is on top of the strut (behind engine oil pan). If you deflate the strut at the lower filler valve and get a ton of fluid be suspicious. Firewall repairs from pranging nose gears. Fixed pitch spinners are made of Gold so look for any defects. Pilot/copilot door over opening damage forward of door hinges.

As allways, look for corrosion around battery box in the tail.
 
Brittian wing levers are repairable. Our was upgraded to track a heading bug and its been a great autopilot for 4 years and counting. Many 68s have them.
 
If he's close by, I'd get Brian or someone familiar with them to go with you on a pre-buy when you find your Cardinal.

Someone who has owned one, and knows them inside and out, is much more valuable than a locally hired blanket A&P sign off. You're going to get that anyway, so Brian or someone like him is icing on the cake.

It would pay to have him fly you. And you could practice in type.
 
177 are dolls to fly. I pivot my arm at the shoulder during flares in 172s where just flexing my wrist gets the angle I want in a 177.
 
I've never used any on either the 1977 or the 68. Do you mean RGs? Or long range fuel FG?
 
Some of the 180 coversions are constant speed, some aren't.
 
bnt83 said:
I've never used any on either the 1977 or the 68. Do you mean RGs? Or long range fuel FG?
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The RG definitely does -- and a lot of it. I needed 90 lb in rear cargo with just me and an instructor, and that took it just to the forward CG limit.

It does make sense that an RG would be different.
 
docmirror said:
I think this is where I'm headed. Going to find a 67/68 177 with the 180 conv. Might have to go a bit over budget but will make wife and kid happy. Honestly, the 177 is the one I really like too. I thought I would like the 175, but not really.
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The first thing you buy for a 177 is the strut to protect the door hinge. In this market, the aircraft will be totaled by a crushed forward door post.
 
MAKG1 said:
The RG definitely does -- and a lot of it. I needed 90 lb in rear cargo with just me and an instructor, and that took it just to the forward CG limit.

It does make sense that an RG would be different.
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I've never seen a FG with LR fuel so it might apply there too. Think they are 60 gallon like the RG
 
Tom-D said:
The first thing you buy for a 177 is the strut to protect the door hinge. In this market, the aircraft will be totaled by a crushed forward door post.
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If the factory doorstop is there and the 210 like spring is broke, just need a new spring. Park into the wind anyway. Don't let go of the door till its fully open prevents accidents.

I've never had one pop open on the ramp when tied down. Or heard of it for that matter.
 
I"m going to limit my search to the early model with the fast wing. Even if I have to get a 160HP and put a climb prop on it. I don't really want a 28V system, and if I get the lower power one, I'll just self-limit to two up on hot days, and keep the fuel to enough for the mission, or make a few more stops.

The ideal plane will be a red/white 1968 with few mods, and just the 180HP engine and FP prop. Bone simple radios, and decent paint and int. I will have an expert look at it and I'm in no hurry to find the right plane. I've got about 5-7 months before I really need to start using it, although if the right one comes up sooner that's fine.

There's a group online that I'll need to get in touch with but I can't recall the name now. Cardinal-owners? I'll figure it out. One of the selling points is that the 177 has the an interesting feature that my Porsche has. Even though they are all old as dirt, with good paint and interior, the 177 is a rather timeless design. This will help with the wife-factor, although she's pretty easy going, she does like things that present well. I call it the Loewy factor, designer of the Studebaker Avanti, and some other fantastic trains, and also aircraft work.
 
docmirror said:
I"m going to limit my search to the early model with the fast wing. Even if I have to get a 160HP and put a climb prop on it. I don't really want a 28V system, and if I get the lower power one, I'll just self-limit to two up on hot days, and keep the fuel to enough for the mission, or make a few more stops.

The ideal plane will be a red/white 1968 with few mods, and just the 180HP engine and FP prop. Bone simple radios, and decent paint and int. I will have an expert look at it and I'm in no hurry to find the right plane. I've got about 5-7 months before I really need to start using it, although if the right one comes up sooner that's fine.

There's a group online that I'll need to get in touch with but I can't recall the name now. Cardinal-owners? I'll figure it out. One of the selling points is that the 177 has the an interesting feature that my Porsche has. Even though they are all old as dirt, with good paint and interior, the 177 is a rather timeless design. This will help with the wife-factor, although she's pretty easy going, she does like things that present well. I call it the Loewy factor, designer of the Studebaker Avanti, and some other fantastic trains, and also aircraft work.
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I've always wanted a weekend alone with 180 CS coversion on the 68 to see how well it performs compared to the 1977 in the pictures.
 
docmirror said:
I"m going to limit my search to the early model with the fast wing. Even if I have to get a 160HP and put a climb prop on it. I don't really want a 28V system, and if I get the lower power one, I'll just self-limit to two up on hot days, and keep the fuel to enough for the mission, or make a few more stops.

The ideal plane will be a red/white 1968 with few mods, and just the 180HP engine and FP prop. Bone simple radios, and decent paint and int. I will have an expert look at it and I'm in no hurry to find the right plane. I've got about 5-7 months before I really need to start using it, although if the right one comes up sooner that's fine.

There's a group online that I'll need to get in touch with but I can't recall the name now. Cardinal-owners? I'll figure it out. One of the selling points is that the 177 has the an interesting feature that my Porsche has. Even though they are all old as dirt, with good paint and interior, the 177 is a rather timeless design. This will help with the wife-factor, although she's pretty easy going, she does like things that present well. I call it the Loewy factor, designer of the Studebaker Avanti, and some other fantastic trains, and also aircraft work.
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The 150 and climb prop, 1500 msl 95 degrees with ~ 750# aboard without much trouble. Climb at 90mph and be patient, keeps aft cylinders cool. Dad flies it to KFTG once a year with one passenger. Dad is about 260#...


Don't expect heroic climbs on the fast wing and you won't be dissapointed. Use flaps wisely and don't get behind the power curve using too much flap at high weight & temp.
 
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bnt83 said:
Don't expect heroic climbs on the fast wing and you won't be dissapointed. Use flaps wisely and don't get behind the power curve using too much flap at high weight & temp.
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Thanks, this is about what I expected. I'm 185, wife is around 130, dog is under 80. The wing is much different than the Grumman AA5, but it sounds like it reacts similar. Things are going just fine until you reach max lift and then slower than that and it gets doggy fast.

I'm not going to be spending that much time in the CO area, and when I do it'll usually be in winter and fall. Most of my flying is in the south central area, with some trips to NM and AZ. I should be ok with the 150HP, but I know there's a piston change that will give 160 as well, and that costly powerflow is supposed to help too. Meh - I'm already modding it when I said I wanted it stock! Can't leave it alone I guess.;)
 
docmirror said:
Thanks, this is about what I expected. I'm 185, wife is around 130, dog is under 80. The wing is much different than the Grumman AA5, but it sounds like it reacts similar. Things are going just fine until you reach max lift and then slower than that and it gets doggy fast.

I'm not going to be spending that much time in the CO area, and when I do it'll usually be in winter and fall. Most of my flying is in the south central area, with some trips to NM and AZ. I should be ok with the 150HP, but I know there's a piston change that will give 160 as well, and that costly powerflow is supposed to help too. Meh - I'm already modding it when I said I wanted it stock! Can't leave it alone I guess.;)
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Exactly. I have about 150 hours in 150 horse many on the hottest of hot and I have yet to scrub a flight for winds topped this year with llws gusting to 36 knots. Dad did add a powerflow since he got one about 50% off and honestly I don't really care for it.
 
150 horse burn autofuel ok. Dunno about 160s

180s aren't approved.
 
Tom-D said:
then they need to come up with the cash to upgrade, see how fast the attitude changes.
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Nope, they'll pay more for it. I"m a tinkerer, but they don't have any interest in tinker-type planes. It's fine for cars and homes, but not planes.
 
docmirror said:
There's a group online that I'll need to get in touch with but I can't recall the name now. Cardinal-owners?
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Cardinal Flyers Online :) Good group, lots of useful info and advice. Good resource in times of need, too.

http://www.cardinalflyers.com/home/_home.php

Another thing to check for during pre-buy that I haven't seen anyone mention: the wing spar carrythrough is a prime site for corrosion. Very expensive repair if you happen to need it. Requires removing the headliner for a really good inspection, and most pre-buy mechanics will want to skimp on this. Don't. I write from experience. :(
 
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About the doors, if they have a STC, I'd get door stewards. I love mine.

It would be the first mod I would do.
 
Is the 1969 177 a thin wing, and 360HP engine?
 
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