Which airplane for this mission...?

[j1b3h0]

I liked your suggestions except for that "need to be there by" thing...

I have specifically arranged my life so that NO ONE's schedule is imposed on me.

We home school and I have passive income.

Clocks are mostly irrelevant to me.

"Get-there-itis" killed a friend of mine. It will not kill me.

My point about the time thing is, with practice, you will be good at knowing how long it takes to complete a cross-country...loading, fueling - fuel stops, etc. How big is the good weather window? It's important to know, for safe flight planning. Much more so when IFR. Anybody can fly across the country if they have two weeks, but a skilled pilot, in the right light aircraft can do it in a day or 2 at the most (if weather is a factor). The reason people buy fast, powerful, well equipt airplanes is to save time. No need for a Cessna 421 if you have a week to get to Boise. But for you to become competent in the hero-chair of a 421 takes lots of experience of the sort to which I'm refering. And yes, there will be plenty of times you will have to say "Not today" and "Let's divert and get a hotel".

 

[Fearless Tower]

Operated 2 210s and various of the PA 32s, and the 32s are a heck of a lot easier to load. Operationally it's the only difference I ever noticed between the 2.

A PA32 may be considerably easier to physically load, but you have to watch the W&B much more closely.

In a 210, if it fits inside, you will most likely be in the envelope. The same is not true for the PA32.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Nope, that's what I first listed it at. When I basically took it off the market for being ridiculed as insane for ever believing that my plane could be worth that, so I just changed the price on Controller to $250k until the ad expired. I'm not looking to sell it, if someone wants to buy it for $95k they will realize the value.

Ok, I must have clicked on the ad after you changed it. I recall folks giving you a hard time about the price and then when I saw it listed at 250k, I thought you were indeed dreaming.

$95k doesn't seem unreasonable depending on the condition. How much time on the engines?

 

[Henning]

Ok, I must have clicked on the ad after you changed it. I recall folks giving you a hard time about the price and then when I saw it listed at 250k, I thought you were indeed dreaming.

$95k doesn't seem unreasonable depending on the condition. How much time on the engines?

3300TTAF 150SMOHL 350 SFRMR New Top Props and alternators when I picked the plane up. AF condition is a 9+

Latest eval from the NAAA calculator.

 

[Henning]

A PA32 may be considerably easier to physically load, but you have to watch the W&B much more closely.

In a 210, if it fits inside, you will most likely be in the envelope. The same is not true for the PA32.

2 steel coffins with occupants load right in without much CG issue and that's leaving the middle seats in. Hauling mile high rides, not all couples are shall we say petite lol, plane always stayed easily controllable. I've loaded lots of stuff into a Cherokee 6 here and a Lance in Aus, I don't really see a bunch of restriction. The most it's ever taken was for me to put my tool box in the forward luggage.

 

[Ted]

He'll be flyng the Cascades, at near gross, Ted. 'nuff said.

If the plan is to fly IFR going over mountainous passes, then pistons even with turbos I would consider to be questionable, but I would agree as a minimum. Sorry, I missed the location aspect of it.

Turbos arent all theyre cracked up to be, I manage the CO mountain passes just fine in a 160hp 172 near gross. What's necessary in mountains is training not a turbo. A turbo is still no substitute for training. The Aztec is more than powerful enough to deal with the mountains at near gross. 'nuff said.

Well, turbos can be worth quite a bit if used properly. However as Wayne has pointed out from his 210/T-210 experience, they can sometimes increase cost without actually decreasing block times or significant utility. It really depends on what you do and how you use them.

Also, I have flown the Aztec near gross into Denver on a hot summer day. To say that it was marginal would be a bit of an understatement. It was all I could do to maintain 9000 ft with both engines turning (85F @ 9000 MSL) - had one failed, we would've been landing somewhere.

So, as with anything, it depends.

 

[Fearless Tower]

2 steel coffins with occupants load right in without much CG issue and that's leaving the middle seats in. Hauling mile high rides, not all couples are shall we say petite lol, plane always stayed easily controllable. I've loaded lots of stuff into a Cherokee 6 here and a Lance in Aus, I don't really see a bunch of restriction. The most it's ever taken was for me to put my tool box in the forward luggage.

Yes, you can still do it, but my point was that you don't have as much flexibility in the loading. For a familiy of 6, you will actually need assigned seats for each person based on weight. In a 210, it just doesn't matter.

With that said, I still prefer the PA32 for simple ease of loading and capacity, but I just feel it is important for any potential purchaser to look at the anticipated loads and a W&B sheet to make sure the airplane will truly meet their mission needs.

 

[PeterDudek]

My point about the time thing is, with practice, you will be good at knowing how long it takes to complete a cross-country...loading, fueling - fuel stops, etc. How big is the good weather window? It's important to know, for safe flight planning. Much more so when IFR. Anybody can fly across the country if they have two weeks, but a skilled pilot, in the right light aircraft can do it in a day or 2 at the most (if weather is a factor). The reason people buy fast, powerful, well equipt airplanes is to save time. No need for a Cessna 421 if you have a week to get to Boise. But for you to become competent in the hero-chair of a 421 takes lots of experience of the sort to which I'm refering. And yes, there will be plenty of times you will have to say "Not today" and "Let's divert and get a hotel".

Excellent points well put. Thanks man.

 

[jmp470]

Peter,
Don't worry to much about insurance. You can always get it... it just depends on what you are willing to spend. Call Chris at Sutton James, Inc. and he can talk real world numbers, 860-249-8066. For instance, he quoted twins, Lancair ES-P's, PA-46, Toga's, etc for me. Yes, some of it was expensive, but it would drop significantly after the first year. As many have said, time in type is key... I was really disappointed with the IFR drop in price. I just thought it would be more. Also, you can look at either financing your plane or paying cash out of your accounts. In my opinion, borrowing $$ is pretty cheap right now, especially with the returns the market is providing for active traders. Right now Door Aviation is offering %5.5. You can talk to Jennifer at 800-214-0066.

Just so you know, I don't work for either of them... I just use there service and found their support to be superb. But even here opinions will vary!

Good luck with your decision.

 

[Fearless Tower]

Loading bags isn't a treat in either airplane, and both have their talking points and issues.

While I generally agree with the points you mention, Wayne, this one has me scratchin' my head.

Aside from checking the W&B, there is absolutely nothing difficult about loading bags in a PA32 in either the nose or the back.