Which aircraft is suitable for my type of mission

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oppscheckgood6

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oppscheckgood6
Good morning everyone,
Hope everyone is safe in this virus crisis. I’m new here and this is my second post. I’m planning to buy an single engine aircraft in June of 2021. Our kids are grown. It just my wife, our little dog, and I. Occasional another couple for short trips. Here are the list of must have and the mission. And money is an object. Our acquisition budget is 150k.
Given the massive experience of this forum, any advice will be appreciated.

Must have...
1. Comfort (Ease of entry and roomy)
2. Speed (Not asking super fast)
3. At least 130 lbs of cargo carrying capacity

Our yearly mission...
1. Two 1500 nm trips ( split into 2/3 days)
2. Two 1000 nm trips (split into 2/3 days)
3. Four 800 nm trips
4. Four 475 nm trips
5. A dozen 200 nm trips

Thank you,
Melvin
 
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Lots of planes fit this purpose. The PA-28 IO540 variants would be a the top of my list. Your budget gets a nice one.

A Cessna 182 or 206 is a good favorite.

Don't EVER, EVER let your wife sit in a PA-32.

Just sayin. If you see her walking towards one, pull out the tazer. You'll thank me later.
 
Ease of entry and carrying capacity the Cessna 206 is a good choice ,not sure it will meet your budget.
 
Get as many rides in different airplanes and decide then. Some of the ones other people love I’m not as fond of. Love em all though. For your budget you can get something really nice.
 
My 1964 C-210D will carry a huge load with a gigantic C.G. range. Very roomy and 190 MPH cruise. Probably much cheaper than a C-206. Not for sale but near new condition and probably $60,000 market price. No, the gear is NOT a problem and no spar AD. I should know as I have had mine almost 50 years
 
Mooney is one of many that would work. You'll need a fuel stop for the longer trips in most any plane under $150k.
 
Lots of good suggestions, but a 182N is about perfect and much lower priced than 182P and later with the tubular gear. If you have to have another 150lbs, then 182P or 182Q. 206 is excellent, but more expensive and does not have a front passenger entry entry door.
 
Cessna 210. Lots of speed, lots of room, lots of range, easy to get into.

It's apparently not the sportiest handling of aircraft.
 
NordicDave said:
Lots of good suggestions, but a 182N is about perfect and much lower priced than 182P and later with the tubular gear. If you have to have another 150lbs, then 182P or 182Q. 206 is excellent, but more expensive and does not have a front passenger entry entry door.
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Or an R
 
FormerHangie said:
Cessna 210. Lots of speed, lots of room, lots of range, easy to get into.

It's apparently not the sportiest handling of aircraft.
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just noticed your location is Roswell, GA. I was just there a month ago buying a vehicle at Palmer Dodge. I liked Roswell area.

Back to the thread...Bonanza will give you speed, room, and load carrying but one door getting in over a wing. A 210 or a cardinal. Cardinal has 2 HUGE doors.
 
oppscheckgood6 said:
Good morning everyone,
Hope everyone is safe in this virus crisis. I’m new here and this is my second post. I’m planning to buy an single engine aircraft in June of 2021. Our kids are grown. It just my wife, our little dog, and I. Occasional another couple for short trips. Here are the list of must have and the mission. And money is an object. Our acquisition budget is 150k.
Given the massive experience of this forum, any advice will be appreciated.

Must have...
1. Comfort (Ease of entry and roomy)
2. Speed (Not asking super fast)
3. At least 130 lbs of cargo carrying capacity

Our yearly mission...
1. Two 1500 nm trips
2. Two 1000 nm trips
3. Four 800 nm trips
4. Four 475 nm trips
5. A dozen 200 nm trips

Thank you,
Melvin
Click to expand...
Has your wife flown with you much? Have you flown any of the longer trips on your list already?

What does 130 pounds of cargo carrying capacity mean? Full fuel tanks plus 340 pounds of people plus 15 pounds of dog plus 130 pounds of cargo?
 
simtech said:
just noticed your location is Roswell, GA. I was just there a month ago buying a vehicle at Palmer Dodge. I liked Roswell area.

Back to the thread...Bonanza will give you speed, room, and load carrying but one door getting in over a wing. A 210 or a cardinal. Cardinal has 2 HUGE doors.
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Downside to a Cardinal is you have to go RG to get decent speed. Not sure how reliable the gear system is, or how good the parts support is since they're kind of the orphan Cessna. Early 210s have gear issues, but the later ones are awesome.
 
Velocity173 said:
Velocity XL
Click to expand...

Man, those Velocity airplanes are amazing. Other than having to get over trusting the idea that one was built by a guy (or gal) in their garage, what are the downsides? Smaller useable load? You don’t see them very often.
 
Mission sets 1,2 and 3 are a pipe dream with a neophyte spouse in an unpressurized spam can of less than 200KTAS. One-time bucket list item sure, but that about it.

For 4 and 5, pretty much every iteration of fac built spam can or EAB people have offered here would do the trick without curing your spouse from wanting to partake. Distinctions without difference in the aggregate. Mostly ergonomic nuances which will affect people differently depending on body composition and life stage.
My vote would be for EABs as a personal preference, but you can't go wrong with a lumbering six seater flown empty if you want to go for ultimate gratuitous comfort.

History says missions 1 2 and 3 are more self-limited than people are willing to concede when they first start ideating, so you're in good company. I'd focus on missions 4 and 5 if you don't want to end up flying solo for the duration of your airplane ownership tenure. G'luck!


SC777 said:
Man, those Velocity airplanes are amazing. Other than having to get over trusting the idea that one was built by a guy (or gal) in their garage, what are the downsides? Smaller useable load? You don’t see them very often.
Click to expand...

Nah, more like significantly higher than average insurance costs for full hull, hen's teeth market relatively speaking, and higher than average runway requirements for the same gross weight than the other offerings, especially when density altitude rears its ugly head in the summers.

As to the builder, that's true of EAB in the aggregate, so there's no point in singling them out. Some of us make a distinction between kit vs plans built, metal vs fiberglass construction when drawing our risk aversion lines wrt EAB, but others don't. It's a personal thing. @Velocity173 can give you the more detailed run down of the specific type.
 
SC777 said:
Man, those Velocity airplanes are amazing. Other than having to get over trusting the idea that one was built by a guy (or gal) in their garage, what are the downsides? Smaller useable load? You don’t see them very often.
Click to expand...

Personally wouldn’t get a composite airframe. The performance of Velocity, Cirrus, and other composites is really amazing - I just don’t want to fly in something that vaporizes on impact :eek:. Saw one stuck on the ramp in Minden from a prop strike they had coming in. Bet they could pick up the “perfect airplane” RV 10 for about 150k. That’ll fly circles around most GA aircraft.
 
SC777 said:
Man, those Velocity airplanes are amazing. Other than having to get over trusting the idea that one was built by a guy (or gal) in their garage, what are the downsides? Smaller useable load? You don’t see them very often.
Click to expand...

Nothing to worry about with a guy building it in a garage. In a quick build, the critical components have already been done at the factory. Some even built the final stages at the factory itself. Only one inflight breakup and the guy had flown into a Tstorm.

I’d say the downsides are minor. Not really a grass strip plane but I suppose if it was flat and long (2,000 ft) you could get in and out. Some quirky handling characteristics (pitch) but once you’ve gotten used to it, its not bad. The prop will eventually get damaged. It’s not if but when. Payload and speed are quite competitive with comparable certified aircraft.

Why you don’t see many of them? Well, some people just don’t care for the looks of canards. Some worry about fiberglass delam which it much rarer than they think. Some like working with metal in the build process and not spending the time sanding, priming, breathing resins, etc.
 
I have been flying about 20 years and owned three different aircraft and have never made a flight of 1000nm. I think the poster above who said some of those longer distance goals are probably not gonna happen is right. It might be a little different in retirement with no kids and no specific schedule, but as a working man with places to be and a schedule to keep, 650nm is, I think, the farthest that I’ve had occasion, time, and weather to do, and I believe I’ve done that trip three times over that period.

Unless you can travel on a totally weather-contingent basis with no set schedule and can do those longer trips over two days, I really don’t think your wife is going to want to do those trips, and pretty soon you’re going to hear “let’s just fly commercial”, unless she happens to be interested in small, piston GA herself. I would really be careful buying a plane specifically to address those longer missions, because they may be more rare than you anticipate.

If you back away from those longer trips, the speed of the airplane really becomes less important, and you’re in the sweet spot for a 182. If you have to go faster, I’d consider older 210s or 182RGs, even though both kind of have a stink on them at times. A retractable gear Cardinal is worth considering, although it will be a sacrifice on the useful load front, same for a Grumman Tiger, which was my first plane and was, in retrospect, an awfully good, economical place to start. An RV-10 really is about the perfect plane for your mission, but your budget will be a stretch for its acquisition. I personally wouldn’t consider any other experimentals given your mission. Bonanzas and Mooneys will be faster, less comfortable(huge debate here, but for myself, I can hardly sit in a Mooney), and require climbing over the wings, but are reasonable considerations if you have the need for speed. Decent Bos, however, will stretch (but probably not max out, depending on the model), your budget. If you really plan to fly with four a lot, you’ll be at the limit of their useful load/CG, unless you go to an A36, which will test your budget. Cirrus is a great option but out of your budget buy at least $75k, I’d guess.

Well... that pretty much takes me to the end of my time on the exercise bike. What did I miss?
 
Oh - Pipers, I missed pipers. Most of the piper retracts are too slow in my opinion. If you’re going to bother, I would go with something faster. The -235 has the useful load and is basically a low-wing 182, but is less comfortable, has one less door, but is also less expensive. Cherokee 6 is overkill (as is a 206 IMO), a Saratoga/Lance, etc is a sweet plane, but also probably overkill and near the limit of your budget, although if I would consider recommending an older 210, it’s odd that I wouldn’t also recommend an older, Lance, so maybe throw that one in the mix (it will be near the top of the operating cost pyramid here).
 
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Ryanb said:
TLDR: Everyone recommends the airplane they own. :)
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Not me.
Glider3-1.jpg
 
We own a 182 and definitely have trouble recommending it for missions 1, 2, 3. Even though it gives you ease of entry and great climb performance out west on hot days, it is definitely not fast enough nor fuel efficient enough for trips 1,2 3.

For certificated amd 150k budget this sounds like 210 or Bonanza territory.

206 also seems a bit too slow and gas guzzler, especially for just two of you. Also, 206 doesnt have copilot door so they'll be crawling over or around seats to get in.

With just 2 this sounds like a fast experimental as others have said.

Or up the budget to a SR22 or Columbia/TTx.

If I really wanted to do all those missions single engine piston I'd be visiting Van Bortel for a TTx
 
oppscheckgood6 said:
Our yearly mission...
1. Two 1500 nm trips
2. Two 1000 nm trips
3. Four 800 nm trips
4. Four 475 nm trips
5. A dozen 200 nm trips
Click to expand...

= 24 trips per year.

Without an instrument rating, this is likely not possible. How much downside is there if/when you need to cancel a trip? You are projecting 24 trips per year. pretty much 2x/month. As a newly certificated PP-ASEL, this will be a very ambitious schedule.

Be realistic... Be Safe!

Must have...
1. Comfort (Ease of entry and roomy)
2. Speed (Not asking super fast)
3. At least 130 lbs of cargo carrying capacity
Click to expand...

Delta or Southwest will meet these needs!

-Skip
 
oppscheckgood6 said:
Our yearly mission...
1. Two 1500 nm trips
2. Two 1000 nm trips
3. Four 800 nm trips
4. Four 475 nm trips
5. A dozen 200 nm trips
Click to expand...

Skip Miller said:
= 24 trips per year.

Without an instrument rating, this is likely not possible. How much downside is there if/when you need to cancel a trip? You are projecting 24 trips per year. pretty much 2x/month. As a newly certificated PP-ASEL, this will be a very ambitious schedule.

Be realistic... Be Safe!
Click to expand...

OP
Skip makes an excellent point not to be overlooked.

Those longer trips and two long days out and two days back at 135 ktas. Wind is never going to be your friend going west.

Lots of planes that would rock.
182
206
210
V35B (sleeper...can be had waaaaay below budget and they scream)
PA32
SR20
 
My 74 Cardinal RG meets all the requirements except I can only have 120 lbs in the cargo area. I paid $67k for mine and for $150K you can get a full on tricked out version, probably even a turbo RG if you can find one.

I flight plan 10 GPH and 165 MPH. We do at least one 1500-mile-one-way trip a year and lots of trips for shorter distances. Everything about the plane has been very reliable and nothing about the gear on a Cardinal is problematic is properly maintained. That may be true of other planes with ‘problem gear’ as well but the Cardinal’s system is pretty straight forward.

Parts have not been an issue and Cardinal Owners Group is one of the best type specific support groups there is.

Odds are someone around you will have an RG to take a ride in. It’s worth checking out.

gary
 
Rather than an older aircraft, have you considered an LSA? For your budget, you could probably score a brand new Bristel with a Rotax 912. At 5gph, you could fly with less than full fuel (maybe 3 hour legs) and have sufficient load capacity. They’re capable, beautiful and comfortable planes.

https://www.aviationconsumer.com/industry-news/editorial/bristell-ng5-another-lsa-speedster/

Plus, with an LSA, if at some point it becomes difficult or expensive to maintain your medical, you can fly under Sport rules with just your driver’s license for a medical.

Just another option for you.
 
Probably should just get a Bonanza.

edit - or Tiger
 
oppscheckgood6 said:
Good morning everyone,
Hope everyone is safe in this virus crisis. I’m new here and this is my second post. I’m planning to buy an single engine aircraft in June of 2021. Our kids are grown. It just my wife, our little dog, and I. Occasional another couple for short trips. Here are the list of must have and the mission. And money is an object. Our acquisition budget is 150k.
Given the massive experience of this forum, any advice will be appreciated.

Must have...
1. Comfort (Ease of entry and roomy)
2. Speed (Not asking super fast)
3. At least 130 lbs of cargo carrying capacity

Our yearly mission...
1. Two 1500 nm trips
2. Two 1000 nm trips
3. Four 800 nm trips
4. Four 475 nm trips
5. A dozen 200 nm trips

Thank you,
Melvin
Click to expand...
Cessna 210. Of course an older Cessna 182 will do the trick but not a hotrod.
 
benyflyguy said:
C195
You’ll be the coolest cat on the tarmac. Only reason.
Click to expand...
They are showstoppers on the ramp, and they have a cult following with great people. For $150k you could get a nice one and possibly have a maintenance/gas reserve (you'll need it) left over. If he went that route, and doesn't have one already, it would probably be a good idea to go ahead and get a tailwheel endorsement and get pretty good with it before transitioning to the 195...they're a handful. @Greg Bockelman can give his 2¢ on the 195.
IMG_1900.jpg
 
Thank you everyone for your suggestions and constructive criticism. I do apologize not providing any clarity of my yearly missions.
Here are few more details...
1. I fly for a major airlines with a good seniority number. That gives me 17 to 19 days off per month. I get 5/7 days in a row.
2. I’m still holding Cfi/cfii/ Mei ( yes, I need to get current and all)
3. I’m in very good health and in my early years done multiple long cross country flights coast to coast with a single engine. IE. Korl-Klit-kcos-kabq-Ksan 2 day trip
4. Wife loves flying long cross country in a GA aircraft without going through Tsa, connecting flights, delays etc. And we can fly with heavily discounted positive space tickets.
5. To give an example, wife loves the fact that we can fly direct to Charleston with our aircraft in few hours vs going to the airport, pay for parking, Tsa, and connecting flight either from Charlotte or Atlanta. It’s a whole day event.
6. Our long cross country missions will be broken into 2/3 days with multiple stops. If we fly in an airline to our destinations, it’ll take at least one connecting flight.
7. Mostly I miss the freedom of flying.
8. Two of my colleagues are A&P’s. And their opinions are very different. One is adamant on Multi engine being the Best Buy. ( C310 Q)
And other one thinks C210 is the best thing ever happened in GA world.
9. Wife liked the Cessna entry and space. She didn’t like the step on the wing and having to close the door for me. Also, Mooney is out due to the space.
10. Finally, only 2 of us will be flying long cross country. And short flights with another couple with no bags.

After reading all your post and other post in this forum, I believe 182 is the winner. The question is TR182 or 182p. Personally I’d love to own a 210’
But I feel I’m just carrying a lot of expensive metal that I don’t need.
I’m learning a lot by reading the forum.
Thank you for taking the time to reply my post.
Have a nice evening and a great rest of the weekend.
 
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oppscheckgood6 said:
Thank you everyone for your suggestions and constructive criticism. I do apologize for not posting my certificates and ratings. Also, not providing any clarity of my yearly missions.
Here are few more details...
1. I fly for a major airlines with a good seniority number. That gives me 17 to 19 days off per month. I get 5/7 days in a row.
2. I’m still holding Cfi/cfii/ Mei ( yes, I need to get current and all)
3. I’m in very good health and in my early years done multiple long cross country flights coast to coast with a single engine. IE. Korl-Klit-kcos-kabq-Ksan 2 day trip
4. Wife loves flying long cross country in a GA aircraft without going through Tsa, connecting flights, delays etc. And we can fly with heavily discounted positive space tickets.
5. To give an example, wife loves the fact that we can fly direct to Charleston with our aircraft in few hours vs going to the airport, pay for parking, Tsa, and connecting flight either from Charlotte or Atlanta. It’s a whole day event.
6. Our long cross country missions will be broken into 2/3 days with multiple stops. If we fly in an airline to our destinations, it’ll take at least one connecting flight.
7. Mostly I miss the freedom of flying.
8. Two of my colleagues are A&P’s. And their opinions are very different. One is adamant on Multi engine being the Best Buy. ( C310 Q)
And other one thinks C210 is the best thing ever happened in GA world.
9. Wife liked the Cessna entry and space. She didn’t like the step on the wing and having to close the door for me. Also, Mooney is out due to the space.
10. Finally, only 2 of us will be flying long cross country. And short flights with another couple with no bags.

After reading all your post and other post in this forum, I believe 182 is the winner. The question is TR182 or 182p. Personally I’d love to own a 210’
But I feel I’m just carrying a lot of expensive metal that I don’t need.
I’m learning a lot by reading the forum.
Thank you for taking the time to reply my post.
Have a nice evening and a great rest of the weekend.
Click to expand...
I'd let you fly mine if you were closer. I have a PDF with all of the 182 model differences on it. Shoot me your email if you want it.
 
ktup-flyer said:
They are showstoppers on the ramp, and they have a cult following with great people. For $150k you could get a nice one and possibly have a maintenance/gas reserve (you'll need it) left over. If he went that route, and doesn't have one already, it would probably be a good idea to go ahead and get a tailwheel endorsement and get pretty good with it before transitioning to the 195...they're a handful. @Greg Bockelman can give his 2¢ on the 195.
View attachment 85121
Click to expand...
So most guys on the ramp look at the big iron guys (I do) those big iron guys are looking at that 195
 
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