When to do Multi Engine training?

labbadabba

labbadabba

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labbadabba
Have my IR, currently building hours for CPL on my way to CFI and hopefully a job flying metal objects above the ground.

I know I'll need my MEL and probably 100 multi hours min to be hired at some point. So is this time between my IR and CPL the best time to do the MEL add-on?

Found a twin comanche that I can rent for $135 dry.
 
No better time than the present :D.

Honestly $135 dry for any twin is pretty good, at least in my area.
 
After IFR, I did multi commercial then single commercial then CFI then CFII.
 
In my opinion, your next step is to either do an initial commercial in a single or in a multi. Commercial single engine and doing the multi add on will be the cheaper route, assuming you can find a complex single to do the commercial rating in.

Same thing with CFI. If you have access to a complex single you can get the single engine CFI done and start teaching while you're working on the CFII and building enough time to do the MEI.
 
I'd do the MEL after the commercial, that way you get commercial privileges on the multi without a second checkride.

$135 for a Twinkie is a pretty good deal. Is this the one that's sort of based out of Topeka?
 
...if you can handle the learning curve and time required...do it...some are slow to grow!!!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
bradg33 said:
I'd do the MEL after the commercial, that way you get commercial privileges on the multi without a second checkride.
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Things have changed since my training days. Back then it was separate checkrides for multi commercial and single commercial. Do the multi first and the single add on was a piece of cake. Usually both done on the same day because the examiners were not limited to how many checkrides they could do in a day.
 
Zeldman said:
Things have changed since my training days. Back then it was separate checkrides for multi commercial and single commercial. Do the multi first and the single add on was a piece of cake. Usually both done on the same day because the examiners were not limited to how many checkrides they could do in a day.
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It's still that way. My point is if he gets his single commercial, his MEL checkride will be to commercial standards. If he gets his multi before his commercial, he's going to have to take 2 commercial checkrides (single/multi).
 
Zeldman said:
Things have changed since my training days. Back then it was separate checkrides for multi commercial and single commercial. Do the multi first and the single add on was a piece of cake. Usually both done on the same day because the examiners were not limited to how many checkrides they could do in a day.
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I don't think they've changed. What Brad is talking about is if the OP does a private multi now he is going to have to do a commercial multi later to use commercial privileges in a twin.

Many places are doing the initial commercial in a multi then doing the single add on the way you're suggesting. That way the FBO only has to have one complex airplane. The only problem with doing that is that it is more expensive for the student because you have more requirements to meet in the multi before you can take the checkride. If you do the multi add on it is just a train to proficiency type deal and most of the students can figure out how to fly a twin well enough to pass a checkride in 6-8 hours.
 
mondtster said:
I don't think they've changed. What Brad is talking about is if the OP does a private multi now he is going to have to do a commercial multi later to use commercial privileges in a twin.

Many places are doing the initial commercial in a multi then doing the single add on the way you're suggesting. That way the FBO only has to have one complex airplane. The only problem with doing that is that it is more expensive for the student because you have more requirements to meet in the multi before you can take the checkride. If you do the multi add on it is just a train to proficiency type deal and most of the students can figure out how to fly a twin well enough to pass a checkride in 6-8 hours.
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The flip side of that is, if you need multi time, and you're paying to get it... you won't save any money if the insurance has hour/time in type limits on solo rental, or doesn't even allow it. Depends on more information than just the upfront part of it. He mentioned he wants 100 multi hours, so getting 6-8 in and passing a checkride may meet the checkride goal, and not meet the insurance or overall goal.

For me, it definitely cost me more to do it backward, but the extra time in the twin was much appreciated -- lot more proficient than I would have been at 6-8 hours. Plus did the Commercial XC in it, and other reqs in it, got a better feel for it on a longer trip, etc. I figured since I was heading for MEI, additional twin time wasn't any detriment for me, and I had the cash saved up...

All sorts of ways to skin that car, but I enjoyed the extra time. The enjoyability certainly goes way up when it's already paid for via savings. Squeaking by on paying for it, or running up debt, would make one a lot less comfortable while racking up some twin time.
 
http://www.cfidarren.com/r-multinst.htm

I found this a very interesting read. Still working on my PPL but plans to do IR and commercial. I feel as though I have been handling myself well now and not overwhelmed but that is a big step up from flying a 152/172 to a twin working on your IR. I completely understand his view though with how that extra multi time early on can help your career.
 
If your goal is to maximize multi time and multi PIC time, and know you're going to spend a lot of time with a MEI until you meet insurance requirements anyway, do your multi-engine private first, then your multi-commercial, CFII (in a multi), and then MEI. By doing the multi private first, you take an extra checkride, but all of the hours meeting the requirements for the multi-engine commercial are logged as PIC time since you're already rated in category and class. After then you can do the commercial single add-on and CFI-ASE at your leisure.
 
bradg33 said:
I'd do the MEL after the commercial, that way you get commercial privileges on the multi without a second checkride.

$135 for a Twinkie is a pretty good deal. Is this the one that's sort of based out of Topeka?
Click to expand...

KIXD
 
denverpilot said:
The flip side of that is, if you need multi time, and you're paying to get it... you won't save any money if the insurance has hour/time in type limits on solo rental, or doesn't even allow it. Depends on more information than just the upfront part of it. He mentioned he wants 100 multi hours, so getting 6-8 in and passing a checkride may meet the checkride goal, and not meet the insurance or overall goal.

For me, it definitely cost me more to do it backward, but the extra time in the twin was much appreciated -- lot more proficient than I would have been at 6-8 hours. Plus did the Commercial XC in it, and other reqs in it, got a better feel for it on a longer trip, etc. I figured since I was heading for MEI, additional twin time wasn't any detriment for me, and I had the cash saved up...

All sorts of ways to skin that car, but I enjoyed the extra time. The enjoyability certainly goes way up when it's already paid for via savings. Squeaking by on paying for it, or running up debt, would make one a lot less comfortable while racking up some twin time.
Click to expand...

I won't be eligible for SIC Part 135 until at least 500 hours so I would have time after my CPL to do my Multi after I get my CPL. I hopefully will have my CFI by then as well and can offset some of the expense of my multi instruction at that point.

I'm starting with a different club in April that has a 172RG that rents at $59 dry so that might be a good machine for my CPL.
 
labbadabba said:
I won't be eligible for SIC Part 135 until at least 500 hours so I would have time after my CPL to do my Multi after I get my CPL. I hopefully will have my CFI by then as well and can offset some of the expense of my multi instruction at that point.

I'm starting with a different club in April that has a 172RG that rents at $59 dry so that might be a good machine for my CPL.
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Keep in mind that if you do it the way I described above you won't need a complex aircraft for the single engine commercial or flight instructor, as you will have fulfilled the complex requirement with the multi-engine checkrides.
 
Hello friends
Please where can I find [0-100] VFR organizer and [0-150] IFR flight in pdf format ? Think you a lot
 
labbadabba said:
I won't be eligible for SIC Part 135 until at least 500 hours so I would have time after my CPL to do my Multi after I get my CPL. I hopefully will have my CFI by then as well and can offset some of the expense of my multi instruction at that point.

I'm starting with a different club in April that has a 172RG that rents at $59 dry so that might be a good machine for my CPL.
Click to expand...

Makes sense. If I were chasing flying jobs, I already have over 500, so I guess all I'm saying is, the math is different for everyone. I'm not, so for me the "extra" time in the twin was well worth it.

Brad Z said:
Keep in mind that if you do it the way I described above you won't need a complex aircraft for the single engine commercial or flight instructor, as you will have fulfilled the complex requirement with the multi-engine checkrides.
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Correct. Another plus for me, my SE stuff will be in my 182.
 
labbadabba said:
Have my IR, currently building hours for CPL on my way to CFI and hopefully a job flying metal objects above the ground.

I know I'll need my MEL and probably 100 multi hours min to be hired at some point. So is this time between my IR and CPL the best time to do the MEL add-on?

Found a twin comanche that I can rent for $135 dry.
Click to expand...

Just do it after your IFR and CPL, it'll cost you the least amount of money/time.

Your first job ain't likley to be in a twin anyways, and you won't need to pay for 100hrs of twin time, that's crazy!

After your CPL let others pay for your hours, that's how it's done.
 
Brian the pilot said:
Hello friends
Please where can I find [0-100] VFR organizer and [0-150] IFR flight in pdf format ? Think you a lot
Click to expand...

I have no idea what this means, but if you're looking for printable flight plan forms, Dauntless Aviation's has some nice ones for free on their website.
 
James331 said:
Just do it after your IFR and CPL, it'll cost you the least amount of money/time.

Your first job ain't likley to be in a twin anyways, and you won't need to pay for 100hrs of twin time, that's crazy!

After your CPL let others pay for your hours, that's how it's done.
Click to expand...

It's rare to get someone to pay for your multi-engine commercial or instructor ratings. If you're lucky you might get it discounted if you happen to get hired on at a flight school with twins. But then again you're competing with CFIs who already have multi on their pilot certificates.

By doing a quick multi private program, you can start logging PIC time during multi commercial, which means he'll be able to go into multi-engine CFI with the required 15 hours of PIC time (14 CFR 61.183(j)).
 
Sure, go for 15hrs, but if he shops around schools after his initial CPL and CFI, he'll find some better deals if he's willing to travel, which is kinda a requirement for a low time professional pilot

Ether which way, paying for 100hrs multi time is crazy.
 
denverpilot said:
The flip side of that is, if you need multi time, and you're paying to get it... you won't save any money if the insurance has hour/time in type limits on solo rental, or doesn't even allow it. Depends on more information than just the upfront part of it. He mentioned he wants 100 multi hours, so getting 6-8 in and passing a checkride may meet the checkride goal, and not meet the insurance or overall goal.
Click to expand...

What you say is true, but none of that time you're paying for is pic time, if that matters for the end goal. Getting the multi add on, building the 15 pic needed for the MEI then teaching to get the rest of the desired time is also another route to the end goal, and it would be pic time. These days it doesn't seem terribly hard to find flight schools who will pay for their instructors to get their MEI add on so there is potential that a person may only have to pay for the initial time to get the multi add on and maybe the 15 additional hours (during which time you can be working on the MEI).

As a side note, I don't think it is going to take 100 hours of multi to get either an airline or entry level multi job these days so he likely doesn't need to worry about making 100 hours on his own dime unless he really wants to.
 
mondtster said:
What you say is true, but none of that time you're paying for is pic time, if that matters for the end goal. Getting the multi add on, building the 15 pic needed for the MEI then teaching to get the rest of the desired time is also another route to the end goal, and it would be pic time. These days it doesn't seem terribly hard to find flight schools who will pay for their instructors to get their MEI add on so there is potential that a person may only have to pay for the initial time to get the multi add on and maybe the 15 additional hours (during which time you can be working on the MEI).

As a side note, I don't think it is going to take 100 hours of multi to get either an airline or entry level multi job these days so he likely doesn't need to worry about making 100 hours on his own dime unless he really wants to.
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Yup. The math changes for everyone. And remember most insurance won't do the initial 15 PIC in the multi anyway as solo time which is why there's a carve out in the regs for "acting PIC" with an MEI on board. Folks often still don't have any real PIC. They have 15 sitting there flying it with the CFI trying to pretend they're not on board. LOL.

You're probably right about the 100. I wouldn't know. Haven't looked and haven't checked. Folks tell me I could get hired places if I wanted to.

It'd mean a 75%+ paycut from a mid-level senior IT job, sadly. And I could even afford the paycut. I just wouldn't want to be quite that broke. You get kinda used to having an income you can do stuff with while being 100% debt free in your 40s. Which, is how I paid for the flying, after all. But it pays for a lot more than just the flying.
 
James331 said:
Sure, go for 15hrs, but if he shops around schools after his initial CPL and CFI, he'll find some better deals if he's willing to travel, which is kinda a requirement for a low time professional pilot

Ether which way, paying for 100hrs multi time is crazy.
Click to expand...

The owner of the twin, his insurance policy permits me to fly PIC at 20 hours. I suspect the instruction will take 10-15 hours at least so I wouldn't be able to log that as PIC time anyway. My CFI has another student in the same boat. Potentially we could get our MEL tickets at about the same time and do some time building together for the PIC requirement...
 
bradg33 said:
It's still that way. My point is if he gets his single commercial, his MEL checkride will be to commercial standards. If he gets his multi before his commercial, he's going to have to take 2 commercial checkrides (single/multi).
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He can do his initial ME as his initial Commercial. He'll have to do the commercial training in the twin, so it wont be cheaper, but there is no need to do an extra check ride.

The advantage of doing the multi ride first is if you need to build the twin time.
 
What do you need 100hrs multi time for? If you are going cpl, cfi, regionals....I thought they were taking people at 25-50 hrs twin?

If I was doing that I would do csel, cfi, then build time and worry about multi time. It'll take a year at least to get 1500 hrs for regionals.

Good luck
 
ChemGuy said:
What do you need 100hrs multi time for? If you are going cpl, cfi, regionals....I thought they were taking people at 25-50 hrs twin?

If I was doing that I would do csel, cfi, then build time and worry about multi time. It'll take a year at least to get 1500 hrs for regionals.

Good luck
Click to expand...

Going off what I've read elsewhere. Granted many of the forums I've read had threads from back in 2008 when hiring was a bit tighter.
 
I got my first multi-engine job (VFR 135) with 9.1 hours of multi. Most regionals require between 25 and 50. You need 50 hours for multi-engine ATP, but can credit up to 25 from your sim training at the airline.
 
I would wait until you have enough hours to go straight to your commercial multi. Otherwise you will be taking two checkrides - one for PP-AMEL-IA and then again for CP-AMEL-IA.

I went private (single), instrument (single), commercial (single), commercial (multi), then CFI, MEI, CFII.
 
mondtster said:
... assuming you can find a complex single to do the commercial rating in.
...If you have access to a complex single you can get the single engine CFI done and start teaching while you're working on the CFII and building enough time to do the MEI.
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You don't need the complex for all of the training, just to demonstrate competence.
 
Brian the pilot said:
Thinks friend
Click to expand...
Thinks for suggestion..I consulted the site but I faced an OCEAN of the forms ...hhh I wanna just 2 forms that are known for all the pilots, and they surely used its during the begining of their flight... [0-100] VFR organizer and [0-150] ifr flight..
 
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