When does AME notify FAA? When is LSA ability risked?

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Is it as simple as once a FAA Form 8500-8 is filled out the AME sends everything to FAA, and if there's no 8500-8 filled out the AME sends nothing?

If someone flies light sport aircraft and wants a third class medical to become a private pilot, but the medical will be difficult, at what point does the AME notify the FAA? At what point does the pilot risk their LSA ability? If the pilot contacts one of the top difficult medical AME's, are they able to just one-on-one consult without anything going to FAA? If the pilot will need a lot of testing for a condition often approved after spending lots of time and money on it, can they confidentially consult with an AME, not fill out the 8500-8, until the AME feels they have enough evidence to have a shot at getting FAA approval?
 
Unregistered said:
Is it as simple as once a FAA Form 8500-8 is filled out the AME sends everything to FAA, and if there's no 8500-8 filled out the AME sends nothing?

If someone flies light sport aircraft and wants a third class medical to become a private pilot, but the medical will be difficult, at what point does the AME notify the FAA? At what point does the pilot risk their LSA ability? If the pilot contacts one of the top difficult medical AME's, are they able to just one-on-one consult without anything going to FAA? If the pilot will need a lot of testing for a condition often approved after spending lots of time and money on it, can they confidentially consult with an AME, not fill out the 8500-8, until the AME feels they have enough evidence to have a shot at getting FAA approval?
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I believe that simply filling out the form doesn't trigger anything until the AME calls it up on the system, but I wouldn't swear to that. I also believe that it expires out of the system if the exam isn't conducted within a certain time of submitting it, but I wouldn't swear to that either. Personally, I wouldn't fill it out until I knew that the odds of passing were overwhelmingly in my favor.

As for the second question, you can absolutely arrange for a confidential consult with an AME before filling out the form and making it official. That I can say with certainty.

SP eligibility using a DL is lost if the examination begins and does not result in your walking out the door with a medical. It doesn't matter whether it's denied, deferred, or if you just leave in the middle of the exam. Once the AME pulls the form and starts the exam, if it doesn't result in issuance, you lose the DL medical privilege as well.

Rich
 
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You can always consult with an AME ,just don't fill out the Medx form.
 
Unregistered said:
Is it as simple as once a FAA Form 8500-8 is filled out the AME sends everything to FAA, and if there's no 8500-8 filled out the AME sends nothing?

If someone flies light sport aircraft and wants a third class medical to become a private pilot, but the medical will be difficult, at what point does the AME notify the FAA? At what point does the pilot risk their LSA ability? If the pilot contacts one of the top difficult medical AME's, are they able to just one-on-one consult without anything going to FAA? If the pilot will need a lot of testing for a condition often approved after spending lots of time and money on it, can they confidentially consult with an AME, not fill out the 8500-8, until the AME feels they have enough evidence to have a shot at getting FAA approval?
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The point is after you've filled out the medical form online, after you've told a doctor that you're going to use the medical. When the doctor signs onto the form, you're committed.

But that doesn't mean you should be risking your medical. Before you fill out your medical online, consult with the AME first. Have him review your conditions and understand what the outcomes will be. Your AME can consult with the FAA. If testing will be required, do the testing and know the outcomes. If everything will line up, THEN you go get your medical. If not - you've spent some money to learn that you're not qualified for a 3rd class without getting a denial.

You should never go into a medical wondering if you have a problem. If you don't know, find out first.
 
I don't have the answer to the question either, but as always, call Dr Bruce Chien. He is happy to discuss this specific question with you, and will do everything to protect your current situation. It's not expensive, and very much worth whatever he will charge for the consult prior to application submission.
 
RJM62 said:
I believe that simply filling out the form doesn't trigger anything until the AME calls it up on the system, but I wouldn't swear to that. I also believe that it expires out of the system if the exam isn't conducted within a certain time of submitting it, but I wouldn't swear to that either...
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That is in agreement with what Dr. Chien has said. The expiration time if the confirmation code is not used is 60 days.
 
Unregistered said:
Is it as simple as once a FAA Form 8500-8 is filled out the AME sends everything to FAA, and if there's no 8500-8 filled out the AME sends nothing?

If someone flies light sport aircraft and wants a third class medical to become a private pilot, but the medical will be difficult, at what point does the AME notify the FAA? At what point does the pilot risk their LSA ability? If the pilot contacts one of the top difficult medical AME's, are they able to just one-on-one consult without anything going to FAA? If the pilot will need a lot of testing for a condition often approved after spending lots of time and money on it, can they confidentially consult with an AME, not fill out the 8500-8, until the AME feels they have enough evidence to have a shot at getting FAA approval?
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You can certainly go to an AME for a consultation without filling out the MedXpress form. Even if you have filled out the form it doesn't become active until you give the AME the reference number and they open it. Otherwise. it expires after a certain amount of time. If you make an error on the first one you can create a new account under a different email address and fill it out again, or the AME can correct your error for you.
 
(we've discussed the below here before but I can't find it right now...)

Also, keep in mind that there are some AMEs (I personally know 3) and some at the FAA in OKC (I've personally spoken with 2) who believe that if you can't pass a third class medical then you can't self certify to fly light sport because the third class medical constitutes (in the FAA's mind's eye) the bare minimum standards required to fly and those standards are what the FAA expects you to self certify to.

I.E. the "drivers license medical" doesn't relieve you from the obligation to be able to pass a third class medical rather it simply relieves you of the physical act of doing so.

There are other AMEs and others at the FAA who disagree with the above.

Just throwing it out so you can chew on it.

As Ron L. would say...this question needs to be posed to the chief counsel so we can obtain "the final answer."
 
timwinters said:
(we've discussed the below here before but I can't find it right now...)

Also, keep in mind that there are some AMEs (I personally know 3) and some at the FAA in OKC (I've personally spoken with 2) who believe that if you can't pass a third class medical then you can't self certify to fly light sport because the third class medical constitutes (in the FAA's mind's eye) the bare minimum standards required to fly and those standards are what the FAA expects you to self certify to.

I.E. the "drivers license medical" doesn't relieve you from the obligation to be able to pass a third class medical rather it simply relieves you of the physical act of doing so.

There are other AMEs and others at the FAA who disagree with the above.

Just throwing it out so you can chew on it.

As Ron L. would say...this question needs to be posed to the chief counsel so we can obtain "the final answer."
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The people who as using the sport pilot rule because they can't obtain a third-class medical may not want to hear a "final answer" and would do well to not ask.

Even though there are guidelines, AMEs have varying opinions about many things.
 
timwinters said:
Also, keep in mind that there are some AMEs (I personally know 3) and some at the FAA in OKC (I've personally spoken with 2) who believe that if you can't pass a third class medical then you can't self certify to fly light sport because the third class medical constitutes (in the FAA's mind's eye) the bare minimum standards required to fly and those standards are what the FAA expects you to self certify to.

I.E. the "drivers license medical" doesn't relieve you from the obligation to be able to pass a third class medical rather it simply relieves you of the physical act of doing so.

There are other AMEs and others at the FAA who disagree with the above.

Just throwing it out so you can chew on it.

As Ron L. would say...this question needs to be posed to the chief counsel so we can obtain "the final answer."
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The regulations are clear.

The FAA air surgeon has the authority to issue or deny medical certificates. Period. And, when the FAA wrote the sport pilot regulations they left the air surgeon out of the loop. Totally.

Some may have opinions, but they do not have ANY regulation upon which to hang that opinion. In fact the regulations that do exist specifically differentiate between operations that require a certificate and those that don't. How do you argue that the same standard must be met when the FAA took the time and effort to modify the regulations to say that the same standards do not need to be met?

Of course, the chief counsel has been known to get creative, but this one would be a real stretch.
 
timwinters said:
...As Ron L. would say...this question needs to be posed to the chief counsel so we can obtain "the final answer."
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That would be a VERY bad idea! :hairraise:

As has been pointed out (by one of our attorney members, I believe), questions to the Chief Counsel rarely (or never?) result in a more permissive interpretation.
 
I've had three physicals with Dr Bruce. He always says you don't do the official physical unless and until you have all the backup data the FAA will want and that you know you will pass.

So if there is any doubt about a pilot's ability to pass an FAA physical it is very important to just call the AME up and make an appointment for a consultation. I'm not sure, but I think that might not even be reportable medical event. But do it in any case.

With respect to the online 8500 form, you can fill those out and print the pdf anytime you want. If you need to change something before the physical based on your consultation just do a new one with a different email address and give that one to the AME.

This year Dr Bruce suggested I add some magic words to a medical test I had taken. I of course did not conceal anything, but at least for this particular test the FAA will sometimes want this little bit more information from you later if you don't put it in a remark. So I did an updated online 8500 to add that little factoid.
 
timwinters said:
(we've discussed the below here before but I can't find it right now...)

Also, keep in mind that there are some AMEs (I personally know 3) and some at the FAA in OKC (I've personally spoken with 2) who believe that if you can't pass a third class medical then you can't self certify to fly light sport because the third class medical constitutes (in the FAA's mind's eye) the bare minimum standards required to fly and those standards are what the FAA expects you to self certify to.

I.E. the "drivers license medical" doesn't relieve you from the obligation to be able to pass a third class medical rather it simply relieves you of the physical act of doing so.

There are other AMEs and others at the FAA who disagree with the above.

Just throwing it out so you can chew on it.

As Ron L. would say...this question needs to be posed to the chief counsel so we can obtain "the final answer."
Click to expand...

Whelp, I'm not going to argue with this, as it has backing of some people with far more experience than I, but here's where I sit. On my SI it says quite literally that "you don't meet the requirements for the 3rd class medical certificate....." and then goes on to give me the 'get out of jail' free card exemption. I've asked, quite plainly and with no argument both Dr Bruce, and the guy who signed my 3rd class in OK City if I let this expire, am I still eligible for self-certify as a SP, and both said unequivocally that yes, provided I maintain my current condition, I can self certify, even with the known limitation that causes me to FAIL the standards for 3rd class.

Ain't that a can-o-worms. But - they fall back to the regs that say I have not been denied, or withdrawn, or revoked, so since 'expired' isn't one of the litmus tests, I can let it expire, maintain my current medical status required of the 3rd class SI, and self certify.

YMMV, don't try this at home, pro driver closed course, contents have settled, and may cause anal leakage.
 
I have always known from my yearly physical with my primary care doctor what kind of shape I'm in. Extensive blood work up, occasional X-ray, maybe every three years, etc. I never worried about my third class as if your able to crawl into the airplane, most likely you'll pass it. I would think most doctors who do flight exams would be ble to help with very few issues if any, not to mention your primary care doctor which you should already have.
 
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Straight from the FAA FAQ from the Federal Air Surgeon. It clearly states that the determination of deficiency, specifically for operations under SP rules is between you and your personal physician and not an AME.

https://www.faa.gov/licenses_certificates/medical_certification/sportpilots/response4/

If I suspect I have a significant medical condition, but have never had an FAA medical certificate denied, suspended, or revoked, can I exercise sport pilot privileges using my current and valid driver's license, if otherwise qualified?
Response by the Federal Air Surgeon
Long-standing FAA regulation, § 61.53, prohibits all pilots — those who are required to hold airman medical certificates and those who are not--from exercising privileges during periods of medical deficiency. The FAA revised § 61.53 to include under this prohibition sport pilots who use a current and valid U.S. driver's license as medical qualification. The prohibition is also added under §§ 61.23 (c) (2) (iv) and 61.303 (b) (2) (4) for sport pilot operations.


You should consult your private physician to determine whether you have a medical deficiency that would interfere with the safe performance of sport piloting duties. Certain medical information that may be helpful for pilots can be found in our Pilot Safety Brochures.
 
Jimmy cooper said:
I have always known from my yearly physical with my primary care doctor what kind of shape I'm in. Extensive blood work up, occasional X-ray, maybe every three years, etc. I never worried about my third class as if your able to crawl into the airplane, most likely you'll pass it. I would think most doctors who do flight exams would be ble to help with very few issues if any, not to mention your primary care doctor which you should already have.
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You are confusing being in good health with passing an FAA medical exam.
 
Having been through this two weeks ago with Dr. Bruce, my advice is to "Save" your application "To be completed at a later time" (or words to that effect). Don't "Submit" the application until you are sure it's the way you want. A little consulting with your AME will help you answer properly. Once you do submit, don't reveal your code number to the AME until you're reasonably sure you're going to pass. If you want to redo it, like others have said, start over with a different email address and let the first one time out in a couple months (destroy the first code number so you don't mix 'em up when you give it to the AME).

dtuuri
 
Everskyward said:
The people who as using the sport pilot rule because they can't obtain a third-class medical may not want to hear a "final answer" and would do well to not ask.
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As others have posted above...it's not the "final answer" but "an answer" appears to be in this Q&A and it appears to support the opinion of those who say you can't self certify if you know you wouldn't be able to pass a third class medical.

Sport Pilot Medical Certification Questions and Answers:

If I suspect I have a significant medical condition, but have never had an FAA medical certificate denied, suspended, or revoked, can I exercise sport pilot privileges using my current and valid driver's license, if otherwise qualified?

Response by the Federal Air Surgeon
Long-standing FAA regulation, § 61.53, prohibits all pilots — those who are required to hold airman medical certificates and those who are not--from exercising privileges during periods of medical deficiency. The FAA revised § 61.53 to include under this prohibition sport pilots who use a current and valid U.S. driver's license as medical qualification. The prohibition is also added under §§ 61.23 (c) (2) (iv) and 61.303 (b) (2) (4) for sport pilot operations.

You should consult your private physician to determine whether you have a medical deficiency that would interfere with the safe performance of sport piloting duties. Certain medical information that may be helpful for pilots can be found in our Pilot Safety Brochures.
 
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timwinters said:
As Ron L. would say...this question needs to be posed to the chief counsel so we can obtain "the final answer."
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No. It doesn't.

because if it does, there's a 50-50 chance that they come out with the answer that if you have a disqualifying condition, then the FAA must certify you...which means now you need a medical. The SP no longer has a self-certification process as intended, it turns back into a medical certification.

As I understand it, under a self-certification process, if I recognize a condition for which I might be disqualified, then I'm responsible as the self part of self-certification for consulting with my doctor and determining if flying is ok. Nobody else is involved. I don't have to ask the special gatekeeper doctors how to certify that I'm OK, me and my doctor do it because we are the two people most concerned with my health.

This does not need to go to the Chief Counsel to ask if they want us to do it in the more (formal medical) restrictive sort of way.
 
timwinters said:
As others have posted above...it's not the "final answer" but "an answer" appears to be in this Q&A and it appears to support the opinion of those who say you can't self certify if you know you wouldn't be able to pass a third class medical.

Sport Pilot Medical Certification Questions and Answers:

If I suspect I have a significant medical condition, but have never had an FAA medical certificate denied, suspended, or revoked, can I exercise sport pilot privileges using my current and valid driver's license, if otherwise qualified?

Response by the Federal Air Surgeon
Long-standing FAA regulation, § 61.53, prohibits all pilots — those who are required to hold airman medical certificates and those who are not--from exercising privileges during periods of medical deficiency. The FAA revised § 61.53 to include under this prohibition sport pilots who use a current and valid U.S. driver's license as medical qualification. The prohibition is also added under §§ 61.23 (c) (2) (iv) and 61.303 (b) (2) (4) for sport pilot operations.

You should consult your private physician to determine whether you have a medical deficiency that would interfere with the safe performance of sport piloting duties. Certain medical information that may be helpful for pilots can be found in our Pilot Safety Brochures.
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I would say that, at this point, the FAA is letting pilots exercise common sense on this matter which gives people some wiggle room. But there are those who want an airtight, nailed down answer on this and many other questions. I think the answer is better left vague and up to individual interpretation. But that's the way I feel about many regulation questions.
 
Everskyward said:
I would say that, at this point, the FAA is letting pilots exercise common sense on this matter which gives people some wiggle room. But there are those who want an airtight, nailed down answer on this and many other questions. I think the answer is better left vague and up to individual interpretation. But that's the way I feel about many regulation questions.
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Unfortunately, some folks just can't leave well enough alone.

Rich
 
I contacted a local AME office about a consult appointment. I was told the doctor would not see me and they were not allowed to even schedule an appointment without the MedExpress confirmation number.

I found another AME to use to work through a Special Issuance.


Sent from my iPhone
 
N3368K said:
I contacted a local AME office about a consult appointment. I was told the doctor would not see me and they were not allowed to even schedule an appointment without the MedExpress confirmation number.

I found another AME to use to work through a Special Issuance.
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They don't do medical consults? That's bizarre. How do they expect pilots to understand the medical requirements?

Sounds like an AME that nobody should use.
 
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