When do you learn Short/soft field TO/landings

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hyphen81

Pre-takeoff checklist
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hyphen81
Just curious...At what point in your private pilot training should you be learning short field and soft field take offs and landings? Is that generally a pre-solo, pre-XC, or does it matter at all?


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hyphen81 said:
Just curious...At what point in your private pilot training should you be learning short field and soft field take offs and landings? Is that generally a pre-solo, pre-XC, or does it matter at all?


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It doesn't matter the sequence. Special landings and takeoffs are part of the PTS and may be asked for on the checkride. But, getting solid on calm and xwind days for 'normal' landings should be something you want before soloing. Remember, once in the air alone, ONLY you are there to get down again.
 
CTLSi said:
It doesn't matter the sequence. Special landings and takeoffs are part of the PTS and may be asked for on the checkride. But, getting solid on calm and xwind days for 'normal' landings should be something you want before soloing. Remember, once in the air alone, ONLY you are there to get down again.
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Have you soloed yet, Cecil?
 
hyphen81 said:
Just curious...At what point in your private pilot training should you be learning short field and soft field take offs and landings? Is that generally a pre-solo, pre-XC, or does it matter at all?


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Really learned soft field landings? The day before my checkride. I went up with a different instructor, only because he put my airplane at max gross weight, which my main instructor couldn't. He gave me some pointers, mostly concerning holding a steady airspeed on short final, that made everything click.
 
hyphen81 said:
Just curious...At what point in your private pilot training should you be learning short field and soft field take offs and landings? Is that generally a pre-solo, pre-XC, or does it matter at all?
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For me, it was when we were winding up all of the required dual training items.
 
Ok that's good to know. Just trying to assess some gaps in my training.


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Doesn't your instructor work from a syllabus, Jon? You should be able to look at it and tell just when and in what order things will happen. If your instructor is a "Well, what will we do today?" type, you have my sympathy.

Bob Gardner
 
I think I did them after my first solo but this is something you should discuss with your CFI. I think a lot of CFI are too quick to jump into landing practice. Before my CFI did any landings with me, he had me request low approaches and just see that I could set the plane up for landing and keep the longitudinal axis lined up with the runway and use aileron to control drift. We would hover at about 10 ft along the entire runway, go around, and do it again. This really helped me with my landings and it's something I will definitely do with my students once I get my CFI.
 
I did them after my leaving the Pattern Solo. It's also lesson #13 on the AOPA syllabus.
 
Part 61 requires that they be taught prior to solo cross country flights.


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nosehair said:
That is correct. The student should be prepared to make an off-airport landing, or divert to an unplanned small airport.
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My favorite thing to do to a student. "Oh look weather, looks like we need to divert..." :D

I normally teach short and soft right after their solo. I take them over to a nearby field with trees close to the threshold and tell them to land on the numbers. They see what it means to see your landing point appear from behind the obstacle. If they do it right we should be just above the trees on short final.
 
My CFI had me doing every landing as a short field after the initial barrage of pattern sessions just trying to get the landing fundamentals down. I agreed with him...if you could do a short field every time then all the other one's were a breeze.
 
Dave Theisen said:
Part 61 requires that they be taught prior to solo cross country flights.


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61.87 says, "(3) Takeoffs and landings, including normal and crosswind;" I wonder if this includes soft and short. And it's not just for solo x countries. 61.87 covers ANY solo flight.
 
kenjr said:
My CFI had me doing every landing as a short field after the initial barrage of pattern sessions just trying to get the landing fundamentals down. I agreed with him...if you could do a short field every time then all the other one's were a breeze.
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True! Until you tell them to do a soft field and they still slam it in like a rock!! :mad2: :D
 
jordane93 said:
61.87 says, "(3) Takeoffs and landings, including normal and crosswind;" I wonder if this includes soft and short. And it's not just for solo x countries. 61.87 covers ANY solo flight.
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Scroll down to 61.93(e)(10) I believe that is the reg he was referring to.
 
It's definitely pre-solo if the airport at which you are training has a short/unpaved runways. Otherwise, I'd save it for post-solo/pre-XC.
 
jordane93 said:
61.87 says, "(3) Takeoffs and landings, including normal and crosswind;" I wonder if this includes soft and short. And it's not just for solo x countries. 61.87 covers ANY solo flight.
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It means what it says -- "normal and crosswind". The first requirement for soft/short comes in 61.93(e)(10) for solo XC:
(10) Takeoff, approach, and landing procedures, including short-field, soft-field, and crosswind takeoffs, approaches, and landings;
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Obviously, if the initial solo will be on a soft/short field, that will have to be covered prior to solo, but otherwise, it's a syllabus issue, not a regulatory one. Personally, I prefer to do them later rather than sooner so we can focus on "grooving in" the normal landings, but that's personal choice, not an FAA rule.
 
kenjr said:
My CFI had me doing every landing as a short field after the initial barrage of pattern sessions just trying to get the landing fundamentals down. I agreed with him...if you could do a short field every time then all the other one's were a breeze.
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I wish I had been trained this way.
All the special landing / takeoffs were new during the "get ready for the checkride" phase.

It worked out but would have been good to be precise a little earlier on.
 
I teach them only when I know without any doubt that my students know how to use a metal landing calculator.
 
NJP_MAN said:
I teach them only when I know without any doubt that my students know how to use a metal landing calculator.
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If you Google metal landing calculator the thread from here is the first thing to show up
 
You mean to tell me there are other things that show up?
 
I stopped joking about it because the other day they gave me a "report right downwind", and I headed for left, and had to report left hoping he forgot he gave me right. He didn't. It was embarrassing, and all I could think was "If only I had a landing calculator" :goofy:
 
hyphen81 said:
Just curious...At what point in your private pilot training should you be learning short field and soft field take offs and landings? Is that generally a pre-solo, pre-XC, or does it matter at all?


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Once you get consistent at landing within a target zone within tolerable general range, then you start refining the tolerances. That's all the Short and Soft stuff is, a refinement of tolerances with more clearly defined technique. How are your landings in general now? Are you consistently touching down within the same 300' of runway with the centerline between the middle half of the wingspan? When you get there, then start to work on modifying technique, until then, don't sweat it; you have plenty of time. Once you 'get' landing, then adding short and soft is one lesson.
 
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