When can you say you have the airport in sight?

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vince

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Vince
I'm new to all of this and was wondering something. If you're on an IFR flight plan and you're coming into an uncontrolled airport and you're below the ceiling VFR and the controller told you to report when you can see the airport, is it okay to say you can see it if you're not quite sure if you can see it yet? But you know it must be out there? Or is that when you ask for a contact approach?
 
When you see the airport.

Was coming into St Louis some years ago, overheard another pilot report to approach "I think I have the airport in sight", approach's reply "call me again when you know you have the airport in sight".
 
They want you to have the airport in sight, not think you have the airport in sight
 
vince said:
I'm new to all of this and was wondering something. If you're on an IFR flight plan and you're coming into an uncontrolled airport and you're below the ceiling VFR and the controller told you to report when you can see the airport, is it okay to say you can see it if you're not quite sure if you can see it yet? But you know it must be out there? Or is that when you ask for a contact approach?
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A controller cannot clear you for a visual approach nor can you accept a visual approach if you do not have the airport in sight.

You cannot report having the airport in sight unless you have the airport in sight.
 
vince said:
I'm new to all of this and was wondering something. If you're on an IFR flight plan and you're coming into an uncontrolled airport and you're below the ceiling VFR and the controller told you to report when you can see the airport, is it okay to say you can see it if you're not quite sure if you can see it yet? But you know it must be out there? Or is that when you ask for a contact approach?
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New airport? When I actually have it in sight. Home drome? It's down in a little valley, surrounded by other ridges. One has to be almost on top of it to see it, so I call "airport in sight" when it is to my best advantage on arrival.
 
At my home 'drone (VKX), anyone who is approaching the airport on anything other than a 60 degree (+-10) bearing to the airport during daytime is likely fibbing if they call "field in sight." Of course we're all familiar with the various marinas, water towers, landmarks etc. that we know exactly where it should be, even though we don't necessary have the runway (which is hidden in a small valley and surrounded by trees and a housing development).

If you're not familiar with the airport, please don't report it in sight unless you really can see the airport environment.

So, to answer the OP's question, you have the field in sight when you have the field in sight (unless of course you have field insight).
 
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This thread has been very insightful.
 
So what do you do if you think you have it in sight, then realize a few minutes later that you did not in fact have it in sight but now you do. Just keep your mouth shut and carry on?

I always have trouble seeing airports until I'm basically on top of them.
 
When you are sure you can see it. Like to have an identifying feature before I call airport in sight. At unfamiliar fields controller will usually give you a vector if you are ten out and don't see the airport.
 
Yesterday I didn't have the field in sight. It was a small field controlled by a different class Delta field.

They kept telling me I should have it in sight.
GPS showed it right under me but I had nothing visually.

I finally just said "I am going to fly a left 360 until I see it and will let you know. "

They were cool with that.

I was actually tempted to say I had it in sight because I felt a little dumb that I couldn't see it and I was 1/4 mile out. I am glad I didn't because even after I told them I had it, they said they would stay with me until I was on downwind.

Just for reference that was F69 under KADS. Not easy to spot at all from the air.
 
Brad Z said:
At my home 'drone (VKX), anyone who is approaching the airport on anything other than a 60 degree (+-10) bearing to the airport during daytime is likely fibbing if they call "field in sight." Of course we're all familiar with the various marinas, water towers, landmarks etc. that we know exactly where it should be, even though we don't necessary have the runway (which is hidden in a small valley and surrounded by trees and a housing development).

If you're not familiar with the airport, please don't report it in sight unless you really can see the airport environment.

So, to answer the OP's question, you have the field in sight when you have the field in sight (unless of course you have field insight).
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That's what I do when arriving to W00 during certain times of the day. I specify "airport environment in sight".
 
SixPapaCharlie said:
Yesterday I didn't have the field in sight. It was a small field controlled by a different class Delta field.

They kept telling me I should have it in sight.
GPS showed it right under me but I had nothing visually.

I finally just said "I am going to fly a left 360 until I see it and will let you know. "

They were cool with that.

I was actually tempted to say I had it in sight because I felt a little dumb that I couldn't see it and I was 1/4 mile out. I am glad I didn't because even after I told them I had it, they said they would stay with me until I was on downwind.

Just for reference that was F69 under KADS. Not easy to spot at all from the air.
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I once flew to 26N and got there and couldn't find it (at night). I couldn't get the darn lights on either. I asked for vectors and GPS said I'm right there, but nothing on the Mark-1 I-Ball. I diverted to KACY, had a cup of coffee and flew back home.
 
What about at night?
I say "I have the airport beacon in sight"

wonder if that is not a good idea. Could be easy to get the wrong one.
 
You don't need to have the field in sight to get a visual approach if you have the preceding aircraft in sight.

IFR it's a prompt for a visual approach to call it.
VFR it means either one of two things: you will get your radar services terminated OR in a class B they're going to tell you to go direct to the airport (or something relative to it).
 
The reason for reporting the airport in sight is to allow the controller to clear you for a visual approach. If you intend to cancel IFR prior to the approach, it really doesn't matter. Just cancel your IFR flight plan.
However, if you want to remain IFR and under ATC control, you must remain at the assigned altitude and heading until you are cleared for the approach.
 
Just a little more info, call the airport or runway in sight when you have it in sight, and can keep it in sight, that is without having to go through another cloud layer.
 
flyingron said:
You don't need to have the field in sight to get a visual approach if you have the preceding aircraft in sight.
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Could you provide a reference for that? I've certainly never ran into that before, not saying you're wrong or anything...
 
jesse said:
Could you provide a reference for that? I've certainly never ran into that before, not saying you're wrong or anything...
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It's definitely happened to me before, but I was curious about the reference too, and found this:

https://www.faa.gov/air_traffic/publications/ATpubs/ATC/atc0704.html

Check out 7-4-3:

7-4-3. CLEARANCE FOR VISUAL APPROACH

ARTCCs and approach controls may clear aircraft for visual approaches using the following procedures:

NOTE-
Towers may exercise this authority when authorized by a LOA with the facility that provides the IFR service, or by a facility directive at collocated facilities.

a. Controllers may initiate, or pilots may request, a visual approach even when an aircraft is being vectored for an instrument approach and the pilot subsequently reports:

1. The airport or the runway in sight at airports with operating control towers.

2. The airport in sight at airports without a control tower.

b. Resolve potential conflicts with all other aircraft, advise an overtaking aircraft of the distance to the preceding aircraft and speed difference, and ensure that weather conditions at the airport are VFR or that the pilot has been informed that weather is not available for the destination airport. Upon pilot request, advise the pilot of the frequency to receive weather information where AWOS/ASOS is available.

<snip Phraseology>

c. Clear an aircraft for a visual approach when:

1. The aircraft is number one in the approach sequence, or

2. The aircraft is to follow a preceding aircraft and the pilot reports the preceding aircraft in sight and is instructed to follow it, or

NOTE-
The pilot need not report the airport/runway in sight.

3. The pilot reports the airport or runway in sight but not the preceding aircraft. Radar separation must be maintained until visual separation is provided.

d. All aircraft following a heavy jet/B757 must be informed of the airplane manufacturer and/or model.
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It's basic stuff you study for your instrument rating. As pointed out it's right there in the AIM. It happens going into busier airport.

PCT: Traffic 10 oclock 2 miles, an embraer descending through 4000.
27K: 27K Traffic In Sight
PCT: Follow that traffic, Cleared for the Visual Approach, contact tower 120.1.
 
Bill Jennings said:
New airport? When I actually have it in sight. Home drome? It's down in a little valley, surrounded by other ridges. One has to be almost on top of it to see it, so I call "airport in sight" when it is to my best advantage on arrival.
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I've been sorely tempted to do that several times, but I've been taught that it's not a good idea. If some "thing" were to happen after that point, and it came out in the investigation that you had lied to the controller, I would expect some enforcement action.

Instead, if conditions were VFR and I was confident that I could find the field, I'd simply cancel IFR and proceed on my own. I did that a few weeks ago flying into 2B3. It was a CAVU day but I was IFR anyway, since I was new to the area. By the time I was over the last ridge, the field was hidden under my feet, and the controller was threatening to climb me back up to cruising altitude (I was already at his MVA). So I just canceled.
 
In the OP there was mention of asking for a contact approach and IMO that's the best option when the wx is murky enough to make it hard to spot the airport but clear enough to eliminate any risk of running into anything. In many cases a part of the problem is ATC's need to keep you well above the pattern altitude until you report the airport in sight. A contact approach clearance allows you to get low enough that not only can you find the airport easier in marginal conditions, it makes it much more likely you'll be in a position to land when you do finally see the runway.

Certainly asking for a contact approach is a better idea than calling "airport in sight" when you're really not sure where it is or worse yet when you only have it "in sight" on the screen of your handheld GPS. I've never been denied a contact clearance when I've asked. That said, I wouldn't ask for a contact approach to avoid flying a published procedure when the wx was worse than 2-3 miles vis or the cloud bases were low enough I'd have to fly below 1000 AGL before the point where I'd normally descend to the runway.

Cancelling is another option but to stay legal you have to be aware of the class E boundaries and the associated cloud clearance and visibility limits. OTOH, cancelling in the air allows ATC to launch or land another airplane immediately while a contact approach means holding them until you cancel on the ground.
 
Unfamiliar airports can be hard to spot sometimes, particularity when they're lost in the middle of city lights at night. Tell 'em you want the ILS approach, it'll lead you right to the runway :D
 
Can I request the ILS as a VFR pilot?
 
timwinters said:
Well, I guess if one were Asian then they couldn't announce field in sight unless they're coming in at 45* to the runway heading...after all...slanted eyes and all that.

Besides, would "field in sight" even be decipherable when spoken by an oriental.
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Wow can't believe you blurted out that racist bilge!

:eek:
 
vince said:
I'm new to all of this and was wondering something. If you're on an IFR flight plan and you're coming into an uncontrolled airport and you're below the ceiling VFR and the controller told you to report when you can see the airport, is it okay to say you can see it if you're not quite sure if you can see it yet? But you know it must be out there? Or is that when you ask for a contact approach?
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I hd assumed from your OP that you were instrument rated, current and equipped and the question assumed you were hypothetically on an IFR clearance.
OTOH as a VFR pilot I suppose you could request a practice ILS approach and I suspect it would be issued traffic permitting.
 
vince said:
Can I request the ILS as a VFR pilot?
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Of course.

"(Aircraft identification) MAINTAIN VFR, PRACTICE APPROACH APPROVED, NO SEPARATION SERVICES PROVIDED."
 
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One of the most unexpectedly fabulous things about our new panel is that in the synthetic vision world, there is a big balloon "tethered" over the virtual airport.

It is especially great when flying into an unfamiliar airport in a major metro area. No more wondering "Where's the damned airport!"
:)
 
vince said:
Can I request the ILS as a VFR pilot?
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Yes, no worries, as long as you are in VMC. If I am coming in to an airport I don't know at the end of a long cross country, especially at night and/or in one of those fun locations they are impossible to see until you're right there, I will often ask to be set up for a practice approach.
 
Jay Honeck said:
One of the most unexpectedly fabulous things about our new panel is that in the synthetic vision world, there is a big balloon "tethered" over the virtual airport.

It is especially great when flying into an unfamiliar airport in a major metro area. No more wondering "Where's the damned airport!"
:)
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Coming around are you?;)
 
vince said:
Can I request the ILS as a VFR pilot?
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If you're cleared for a straight in landing you don't even have to request it, just fly it on your way in. But if you're told to enter downwind or a "2 mile left base", you can either tell the tower you'd like to intercept and fly the ILS or just say you want a 5-6 mile final.
 
gismo said:
If you're cleared for a straight in landing you don't even have to request it, just fly it on your way in. But if you're told to enter downwind or a "2 mile left base", you can either tell the tower you'd like to intercept and fly the ILS or just say you want a 5-6 mile final.
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Thing is if you ask for a practice ILS they will handle you as they would an ILS, if you ask for a 5-6 mile final, you may just get 'approved approach at pilot discretion, clear to land' if they have no one else in the vicinity.
 
Velocity173 said:
"(Aircraft identification) MAINTAIN VFR, PRACTICE APPROACH APPROVED, NO SEPARATION SERVICES PROVIDED."
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Why do they say "no separation services provided"? They are not required to keep you away from other VFR traffic anyway from what I understand. So they're saying they're not going to keep you separated from the IFR traffic? But doesn't that mean then that they're not providing separation services to the that other IFR traffic then?

:confused:
 
vince said:
Why do they say "no separation services provided"? They are not required to keep you away from other VFR traffic anyway from what I understand. So they're saying they're not going to keep you separated from the IFR traffic? But doesn't that mean then that they're not providing separation services to the that other IFR traffic then?

:confused:
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Depends on the airspace and if it's a primary airport (where approach control is based) or a secondary airport. Since your OP was dealing with an uncontrolled airfield, that's the phraseology you would most likely get.

If it's the primary airport then they will be providing IFR separation for a VFR aircraft conducting an instrument approach. Example, where I used to work (NBC) we were required for sequencing VFR arrivals and providing IFR separation for them if conducting a practice approach. In that case you would treat them like a IFR only you wouldn't clear them to the air station and you would still tell them to maintain VFR. Actually don't ever remember applying that rule because any VFR coming to the air station requesting an approach, we just gave them a pop up IFR or "abbreviated IFR flight plan." Plus 99% of our military traffic on approach was IFR anyway.

The other scenario is a secondary airport type. Most likely you would get "maintain VFR, practice approach approved, no separation services provided." This is just a reminder to the pilot that they aren't on an IFR clearance so they can't go less than VMC and the controller isn't providing standard IFR sep. It's not like they're going to let you crash into another aircraft though.

There are some facilities that have SOPs and LOAs that will apply standard IFR separation (except 500 ft vertical) to secondary airports as well. You'll be VFR but they will actually clear you for the approach. Still have to maintain VFR in that scenario though. All the secondary airfields that I had responsibility for, we didn't apply IFR sep. Possibly Steven or Mark can comment on their areas. I'm sure they've worked aircraft where they had an LOA authorizing it.

So, depending on where you are flying into, the airspace and the LOAs in place, you could get two different types of instructions from ATC.
 
Henning said:
Thing is if you ask for a practice ILS they will handle you as they would an ILS, if you ask for a 5-6 mile final, you may just get 'approved approach at pilot discretion, clear to land' if they have no one else in the vicinity.
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Assuming the approach is conducted under VFR in both cases and no help is needed from ATC to intercept the FAC, what's the difference?
 
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