What's thet beeping???

Keith Lane

Keith Lane

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Keith Lane
Pre-landing checklist? We don' need no steenkin' checklists!!!!!
Sounds like just another final approach chat going on in the front seats. This looks like a Cessna RG. Anyone here recognize the beeping as a gear warning horn? Or is it something else?
 

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Keith Lane said:
Pre-landing checklist? We don' need no steenkin' checklists!!!!!
Sounds like just another final approach chat going on in the front seats. This looks like a Cessna RG. Anyone here recognize the beeping as a gear warning horn? Or is it something else?
Click to expand...


That's the Cessna gear horn. Our R182 has the same thing. It fires if the gear is retracted and throttle is reduced below 11"hg or if the flaps are extended more than 23°.

Dan
 
Keith Lane said:
Pre-landing checklist? We don' need no steenkin' checklists!!!!!
Sounds like just another final approach chat going on in the front seats. This looks like a Cessna RG. Anyone here recognize the beeping as a gear warning horn? Or is it something else?
Click to expand...


I think someone has "enhanced" the audio in this one - but you could hear the gear horn in the original version.


edit:
I take it back. I found what I suspect may be the original version and it sounds about the same.
 
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Dan Thomas said:
That's the Cessna gear horn. Our R182 has the same thing. It fires if the gear is retracted and throttle is reduced below 11"hg or if the flaps are extended more than 23°.

Dan
Click to expand...

Pretty sure we figured that one out :rofl::rofl: The whole 'landing on the belly of the plane' thing was how I figured it out.

Interesting about the causes of it though, and I wonder why the pilot/copilot didn't notice it? Even the photographer didn't seem to ask anything, and he did notice the lack of landing gear.

This almost seems intentional to me...
 
Keane said:
Pretty sure we figured that one out :rofl::rofl: The whole 'landing on the belly of the plane' thing was how I figured it out.

Interesting about the causes of it though, and I wonder why the pilot/copilot didn't notice it? Even the photographer didn't seem to ask anything, and he did notice the lack of landing gear.

This almost seems intentional to me...
Click to expand...

Ok, first I retract my previous statement about the audio. The 2007 version sounds about the same

Notes from the 2007 version http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-K4QHpVXtxI
This video was taken by Paul Wingo, who was sitting in the back. I have uploaded it here WITH HIS WRITTEN PERMISSION.

Cessna 182 Skylane RG

Charles W. Baker Airport
USA January , 2007

From Paul Wingo:

"There was a snow storm approaching in about an hour and we were doing a check ride. Because of possible ice, we had been flying with the gear down the entire time. We started doing touch and goes after a while. Habit when you take off is to raise the gear. This is what happened. So, when we come around, they were conversing and what not and simply forgot the gear was up. The prop got bent up pretty bad along with the belly of the plane."
Click to expand...
 
This was on a check ride? Wow.
 
That video never gets old.

But I can relate. I did my commercial in a 172RG and you get so used the sodding bleeping that you start to ignore it. But I never even got close to doing what they did as I used the check list and verified the gear. My GUMPS check was always...

G = Gear Down
U = Under Carriage is Down
M = Move your hand to the gear lever and put it in the down position
P = Push the landing gear lever into the down position
S = See that the gear is down.
 
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smigaldi said:
That video never gets old.

But I can relate. I did my commercial in a 172RG and you get so used the sodding bleeping that you start to ignore it. But I never even got close to doing what they did as I used the check list and verified the gear. My GUMPS check was alway...

G = Verify Gear Down
U = Verify the Under Carriage is Down
M = Verify the Move your hand to the gear lever and put it in the down position
P = Push the landing gear lever into the down position
S = See that the gear is down.
Click to expand...

+1....
I remember carefully reciting/doing GUMPS on my CFI ch/ride and the grumpy old examiner went off the handle..."Look at the checklist and put the F%$kin gear down!" ..I was actually kind of blown away hearing that come from a Fed.
 
smigaldi said:
That video never gets old.

But I can relate. I did my commercial in a 172RG and you get so used the sodding bleeping that you start to ignore it. But I never even got close to doing what they did as I used the check list and verified the gear. My GUMPS check was always...

G = Gear Down
U = Under Carriage is Down
M = Move your hand to the gear lever and put it in the down position
P = Push the landing gear lever into the down position
S = See that the gear is down.
Click to expand...

Scott:

Classic.

---

I have at least four gear-down checkpoints pre-landing, and when I put the gear down, my hand stays on the gear switch until the gear-down light comes on, "gear down light, check nosewheel (visual indicator of nosewheel position in my era of Bonanza), mirror, mirror (because I have wingtip gear-spotting mirrors)." Approaching the pattern, I recite out-loud, "gear is not down" until it's down.
 
Keith Lane said:
Pre-landing checklist? We don' need no steenkin' checklists!!!!!
Sounds like just another final approach chat going on in the front seats. This looks like a Cessna RG. Anyone here recognize the beeping as a gear warning horn? Or is it something else?
Click to expand...

Is there any more info about this incident? If this was really a case of forgetting to extend the gear and ignoring the warning I'd expect at least one of them to blurt out an "Oh ****!" as the prop made contact with the pavement.
 
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roncachamp said:
Is there any more info about this incident? If this was really a case of forgetting to extend the gear and ignoring the waring I'd expect at least one of them to blurt out an "Oh ****!" as the prop made contact with the pavement.
Click to expand...
This video has been around for quite some time and everything I've read about it says it genuine.
 
I drop the gear, check for green light. Only comes on if all three are locked in. Add flaps, check light, call out gear down. Add more flaps, check light, call out gear down. Add last bit of flaps, check light, call out gear down. Numbers almost disappearing, check the light 12 more times just to be sure.
 
This was a good one...:) NTSB Identification: ANC93FA128 .
The docket is stored in the Docket Management System (DMS). Please contact Records Management Division
Accident occurred Tuesday, July 27, 1993 in BOISE, ID
Probable Cause Approval Date: 12/2/1994
Aircraft: CONVAIR 240, registration: N156PA
Injuries: 3 Uninjured.
LEFT SEAT PILOT WAS RECEIVING A FLIGHT CHECK FOR ATP AND CV-240 TYPE RATING; RIGHT SEAT PILOT WAS FAA OPS INSPECTOR. FOLLOWING A SIMULATED SINGLE-ENGINE APPROACH THE AIRPLANE LANDED WHEELS UP. LEFT SEAT PILOT HAD RECEIVED A TOTAL OF 1.4 HRS LEFT SEAT TRAINING IN CV-240 PRIOR TO THIS FLIGHT; LOG BOOK NOT ENDORSED. The National Transportation Safety Board determines the probable cause(s) of this accident as follows:
THE PILOT'S FAILURE TO EXTEND THE LANDING GEAR, AND THE CHECK PILOT'S INADEQUATE SUPERVISIION. A FACTOR IN THE ACCIDENT WAS THE PILOT'S INADEQUATE UPGRADE TRAINING BY THE COMPANY.
 
EdFred said:
I drop the gear, check for green light. Only comes on if all three are locked in. Add flaps, check light, call out gear down. Add more flaps, check light, call out gear down. Add last bit of flaps, check light, call out gear down. Numbers almost disappearing, check the light 12 more times just to be sure.
Click to expand...

Sounds about right. Midfield, downwind, drop the gear, check for 3 green lights (one for each wheel in the Arrow). Add first notch of flaps. Turn base. Check "three in the green". Add second notch flaps. Turn final. Check "three in the green". Add last notch of flaps. Check "three in the green". Really short final, check "three in the green".

Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean that they aren't out to get you. In our club I'd pay the first $1000 towards the repairs. Insurance covers the rest. I can write that check. The embarrassment (not to mention the grief on this web board) would kill me.

Oh, and in the Arrow that's not a beep, it's a very annoying screech when you pull the power with the gear still in the wells. Sure gets your attention when you practice slow flight.
 
smigaldi said:
That video never gets old.

But I can relate. I did my commercial in a 172RG and you get so used the sodding bleeping that you start to ignore it. But I never even got close to doing what they did as I used the check list and verified the gear. My GUMPS check was always...

G = Gear Down
U = Under Carriage is Down AND Locked
M = Move your hand to the gear lever and put it in the down position
P = Push the landing gear lever into the down position
S = See that the gear is down.
Click to expand...


I was taught

G=Gear
U=Undercarriage Down AND Locked
M=Mixture is Rich
P=Props Forward
S=Switches ( fuel pump)

The I was taught to do 3-1-2-3 on final.

As in

3 Notches of Flaps ( only good for piper I suppose)
1 Mixture
2 Props forward for go around
3 in the green
 
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AdamZ said:
I was taught

G=Gear
U=Undercarriage Down AND Locked
M=Mixture is Rich
P=Props Forward
S=Switches ( fuel pump)

The I was taught to do 3-1-2-3 on final.

As in

3 Notches of Flaps ( only good for piper I suppose)
1 Mixture
2 Props forward for go around
3 in the green
Click to expand...

My instructor always told me:
G=Gas (ensure the switch is on)
U= Undercarrage
M= Mixture->Rich
P= Primer locked/Electric fuel pump on
S= Seatbelts.
 
I love where at the end of the video the left seater kinda slaps the top of the panel. I'm sure he was saying soemthing like: "Golly Gee Shucky Darns" :D

Mike
 
A classic. :smile: :rolleyes:

I don't care what sort of checklist they were supposed to be using- it doesn't matter when you fail to realize, as you plan your final approach, the fact that you will probably want to land on wheels, not the belly of the airplane. :nonod:
It should cross your mind when you're flying a retractable. The PIC remembered to retract the gear didn't he?

No mnemonic, no hi-vis laminated checklist, no CRM protocol, no idiot light, not even a doggone warning horn can thwart stupidity when it is determined to happen. :D
 
Keane said:
My instructor always told me:
G=Gas (ensure the switch is on)
U= Undercarrage
M= Mixture->Rich
P= Primer locked/Electric fuel pump on
S= Seatbelts.
Click to expand...

G-ear down
U-ndercarriage extended
M-ake sure the wheels are out
P-ut down the gear
S-ee that the gear is out
 
At least they didnt try to take off again, there was a guy at flight express that went full power as soon as the prop hit concrete in the 210 and he flew it around the pattern with bent prop tips, put the gear down and then landed, incredibly dangerous.... I also worked at at a flight school that had a 182 that when you put the gear down at too slow an airspeed the nose wouldnt lock, and you wouldnt get a green light, so you have to give it a little jerk back on the wheel and it would lock right out, green light would come on. But since the selector was in the down position, there would be no warning sound, needless to say one of the instructors there that didnt have much time in the thing neglected to check the green light, and ended up trashing the aircraft... and getting cited by the FAA...
 
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What ever happened to the sterile cockpit rule? They just kept jabbering away totally ignorant of that warning alarm.
Sheesh, cmon its not rocket science.
 
AdamZ said:
I was taught

G=Gear
U=Undercarriage Down AND Locked
M=Mixture is Rich
P=Props Forward
S=Switches ( fuel pump)
Click to expand...

There's probably a lot of different versions:

I learned

Gas - fuel on correct tank
Undercarriage - gear down and locked
Mixture - Rich
Props -forward
Speed - correct speed for pattern leg

RT
 
If you fly correctly, the GUMPS check should never even occur. Descent has you adjusting mixture and checking fuel, so that gets rid of the G and M in the pattern. When I make the call to the class E/G field (10 miles out) or tower that's when all the switches get flipped (lights, fuel pump) and the seatbelts checked, so that gets rid of the S, now I'm in the pattern, or on long base/final, all I have to worry about is gear, gear, gear, and push the prop forward when the RPMs drop below 2300. (I always cruise at 2300)
 
EdFred said:
If you fly correctly, the GUMPS check should never even occur.
Click to expand...

GUMPS is a mnemonic "CHECK" list, not a "DO" list. It should ALWAYS occur.

I agree, all those things should be done during proper operation. The idea of GUMPS (or any checklist) is to check to make sure you didn't miss anything.
 
Steve said:
A commercial candidate "landed" gear up in a C210 I use to rent.

The examiner was not amused.
Click to expand...

Probably because it doesn't look good on his record, either.

I have to imagine the examiner isn't SUPPOSED to let it go that far. S/he is not PIC, of course, but I'd expect somebody would be asking if s/he was really paying close attention to the flying if the landing got to the point where aluminum was scraping the runway.
 
ABS's Tom Turner spent quite a bit of time analyzing gear ups and came out with a program addressing it. In the end, he suggests one always try to lower the gear at the same point in the approach so it becomes standard. He likes to use the term 'gear down to do down' that is when doing a normal approach from downwind, the gear goes down when the descent begins.

That really doesn't take unusual circumstances into consideration like when tower asks one to keep up their speed because of jet traffic behind etc., but I try to use it. Check rides often create a high pilot work load and often vary from standard approaches where this technique works.

I probably do three GUMPS checks on each landing. One when I set up for the approach. At the FAF on an instrument approach when the gear comes down and a recheck on short final.

When I lower the gear, my hand stays on the gear lever until three greens show (or don't).
I have been distracted and almost forgot one time that I recall keeping my speed up with jet traffic behind. I like to think, I would have checked again, but tower called it out and that settled the matter.

I'm pretty paranoid about it: I think that's what's kept me safe all these years. I do invoke the sterile rule when getting into the airport environment or farther out in the approach environment when IMC. I've hit the pilot isolate button on the audio panel more than once when someone didn't pay attention; including once on a CFI that kept yacking when I was trying make an approach making it hard to hear approach control and tower. We later attributed it to where his volume control was set, but couldn't divert attention on the approach to that.

Best,

Dave
 
This was my take on the video as well. Shutting off the mouths once in the pattern would probably have helped them notice the warning horn... or the lack of drag. or the lack of 3 green. Or whatever.


DutchessFlier said:
What ever happened to the sterile cockpit rule? They just kept jabbering away totally ignorant of that warning alarm.
Sheesh, cmon its not rocket science.
Click to expand...
 
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