What's the fascination with a Cub?

labbadabba

labbadabba

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labbadabba
Particularly the J3?

It's slow, barely climbs, isn't really known for good flying characteristics, crappy forward visibility...

So, what's the big deal? A Champ from the same era is a better plane in almost all respects. Yet, so many aviators just fall all over themselves when they see a "nice" J3.

Is it just because it's an icon? I don't get it...

Am I going to be banned now from PoA?
 
I couldn't agree more. In fact I thought carbon cubs and the new X-cub SUCKED in comparison with a Scout or Denali Scout. Ailerons are damn near ineffective above 80mph. Poor control balance. Hard to get into and out of. Back seat is a "sling seat" which is a terrible design. Just all around unpleasant when compared with a champ or champ derivative.
 
@labbadabba Have you ever flown one? :) I definitely do prefer the cubs with more power than the J-3 (PA-11 and PA-18), but they all are great. I have flown champs, citabrias and scouts a lot and I love those too, but the control feel of a cub is much lighter and more harmonious, IMO. I think that's why.
 
Not to mention the front seat is really cramped in a Cub. For me I find the cub much more attractive than a Champ. To me a J5 or a PA-12 are about the ideal old tandem low and slow plane.
 
i never got it either. not just aviation...seems like in most things, first is best for some reason. bet if you went back in time to when cubs were new and offered an owner a trade up to something modern, he'd hand you the keys.

nostalgia is powerful, and it can hide a lot of stuff...
 
It's just a fun plane to fly. Handles well. Lands slowly. Stalls are about as benign as they come. You can fly with the door open.

I haven't flown a champ, but I'd love the chance. I much prefer the J-3 to the luscombe and citabria that I've flown.
 
Give me XCub with leading edge slats and I would be in seventh heaven. You guys can't tell that this wouldn't be a blast to fly! I know this is a CarbonCub, but an XCub wouldn't be that much different.

 
azblackbird said:
Give me XCub with leading edge slats and I would be in seventh heaven. You guys can't tell that this wouldn't be a blast to fly! I know this is a CarbonCub, but an XCub wouldn't be that much different.

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It's quite different. And most are equipped with glass cockpits which REALLY detracts from the whole ordeal. Get yourself a Denali Scout. Not an Xcub.
 
Years ago the owner of a Cub would take off in high winds, climb to 4000 ft pull the power back and the plane looked to be hovering above the runway. If the winds were strong enough he could back up. Neat show.
 
azblackbird said:
Give me XCub with leading edge slats and I would be in seventh heaven. You guys can't tell that this wouldn't be a blast to fly! I know this is a CarbonCub, but an XCub wouldn't be that much different.

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So sayeth the soon to be student pilot? You're well on your way to overtaking Maui Wowie for useful contributions.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
Get yourself a Denali Scout.
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Nothing wrong with the Scouts. I like those too. Do they have a builder assist program? That's why I like the Cub Crafters family. If I decide I don't want to mess around with a certified aircraft like the XCub is, I can always go with the FX and take care of all my own maintenance and don't have to worry about annuals and all that other good stuff. ;)
 
azblackbird said:
Cub Crafters family
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I sure wouldn't call it a family. - ex employee.

I know you're talking about the planes. If you wanted something to build I'd suggest Murphey aircraft. American champion does not offer their aircraft in experimental versions.
 
Mtns2Skies said:
If you wanted something to build I'd suggest Murphey aircraft. American champion does not offer their aircraft in experimental versions.
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Checked out Murphy. Nothing there that trips my trigger. An FX or XCub is ideal for the type of recreational flying I would be doing here in AZ.
 
The majority of fighter and bomber pilots of WWII introduction to flight was in a J-3 Cub. It was the training aircraft of its time. If you visit the Air & Space museums in D.C. or Virginia, you will see a J-3 on display and not a Champ. Same is true of the Air Force museum in Dayton with the L-4 on display. The J-3 Cub has a unique history that most other light aircraft can’t touch. When flying my J-3 Cub to a show, I am usually parked next to a P-51. Champs have many advantages when compared to the J-3. Just not the history!
 
lol! I posted this opinion on Usenet many years ago, and the WWII guys just about eviscerated me.

I think they're almost all gone now, so you might survive this thread -- but I agree, IMHO the Piper Cub is a slow pig that has a cult following for no apparent reason.
 
azblackbird said:
Give me XCub with leading edge slats and I would be in seventh heaven. You guys can't tell that this wouldn't be a blast to fly! I know this is a CarbonCub, but an XCub wouldn't be that much different.

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Bit of a leap from a vintage cub to a carbon Cub...
 
skier said:
It's just a fun plane to fly. Handles well. Lands slowly. Stalls are about as benign as they come. You can fly with the door open.

I haven't flown a champ, but I'd love the chance. I much prefer the J-3 to the luscombe and citabria that I've flown.
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So, really other than some sense of having an attachment to aviation history, I could just get an ultra light for the same experience...

I'm not trying to be a hater here but looking at the discussion on what would make the best raffle aircraft, I saw much discussion and fawning over something like a J3. I just thought, what's the point in that?
 
Grum.Man said:
Not to mention the front seat is really cramped in a Cub. For me I find the cub much more attractive than a Champ. To me a J5 or a PA-12 are about the ideal old tandem low and slow plane.
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Ya. But just think how much faster they would cruise if they were real airplanes with gear that sucked up into the belly. ;)
 
Wow. I didnt think anyone could hate a Cub. Low and slow in the bright yellow Cub with the door and window open is one of the best things you can do in Aviation.

What are you expecting out a 65hp airplane?

Some of my best memories are in a Cub.
 
cowman said:
It's kind of like the VW Beetles.... terrible cars that were designed and built to be cheap but everyone loves them for some reason.
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Some of us of, ahem, a certain age have nostalgic memories of getting laid in our VW Beetles (mine was a '68 1500 Deluxe ). Come on now, can anyone claim they got laid in a Cub? Is it even technically possible? :D
 
GRG55 said:
Some of us of, ahem, a certain age have nostalgic memories of getting laid in our VW Beetles (mine was a '68 1500 Deluxe ). Come on now, can anyone claim they got laid in a Cub? Is it even technically possible? :D
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Where I come from in Texas, VW Beetles, aka bugs, were considered birth control devices......
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
Wow. I didnt think anyone could hate a Cub. Low and slow in the bright yellow Cub with the door and window open is one of the best things you can do in Aviation.
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I don't have time in any Cubs but some of the people I've met at the club here do and love them, one of them even made it a requirement for me as a "bucket list item" to have in my logbook. I asked why and this above was basically the exact reason I was given. Being able to go low and slow really gave you that "I'm flying" feeling (which ultimately, isn't that why we all started flying?)

I guess an ultralight could give you that too... but that's not a plane and there's something different about that. Add the nostalgia factor and I could appreciate why so many people love it.

I've wondered the same about the 727... older airline pilots often seem to regard that in the same light. It did have good performance and looks, but it was also the first real airliner that many folks flew (I know we had DC8 and 707 before that, but those were the first iterations)
 
labbadabba said:
Particularly the J3?

It's slow, barely climbs, isn't really known for good flying characteristics, crappy forward visibility...

So, what's the big deal? A Champ from the same era is a better plane in almost all respects. Yet, so many aviators just fall all over themselves when they see a "nice" J3.

Is it just because it's an icon? I don't get it...

Am I going to be banned now from PoA?
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I use to think the same way about ultralights. There is a group of ultralight people at my airfield and I started talking with them. I decided to go up in one and I now understand why they are so cool. If you really want to know, speak to a pilot that owns a J3 and see if they will take you up in one...just try to listen and not offend him/her ...mmmmkay? ;)

skier said:
It's just a fun plane to fly. Handles well. Lands slowly. Stalls are about as benign as they come. You can fly with the door open.

I haven't flown a champ, but I'd love the chance. I much prefer the J-3 to the luscombe and citabria that I've flown.
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If you want to fly a champ come down here to Florida, we had a EAA event yesterday. They were like 5 of them on the field!
 
I own a cub and a absolutely love flying it. Opening the doors and windows on a summer morning and just cruising along at 500 ft is amazing.
To me they look amazing and are simply fun to fly. So I guess for me its like women. I'm sure some ugly ones don't get the attention they deserve but I'll never know.....
 

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photo-12.JPG Cubs are better when they have 150-160 hp. The one I'm building now has 220 hp, CS composite prop, slats, split flaps, and 35" tires. Better yet!
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
Wow. I didnt think anyone could hate a Cub. Low and slow in the bright yellow Cub with the door and window open is one of the best things you can do in Aviation.

What are you expecting out a 65hp airplane?

Some of my best memories are in a Cub.
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I love the cubs..saying that I owned a 65 hp airplane that cruised in level flight at 130 mph. One time I had her to 160 mph. It's not the 65hp holding the cub back, it's the design of the cub that holds the cub back. It's not suppose to be a speed machine. Not build as one. IMHO.

Tony
 
Yes, you will be banned from PoA! :)
I've got a couple hundred hours in our flying club's Cub and I absolutely love it! I really can't put my finger on it, but Cub's kinda grow on you.
 
Cpt_Kirk said:
Wow. I didnt think anyone could hate a Cub. Low and slow in the bright yellow Cub with the door and window open is one of the best things you can do in Aviation.
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Haters gonna hate. I would love to own a Cub. The bright yellow color is just a bonus. I actually think yellow cars are really ugly, but bright yellow planes? Love 'em. Like little sun fairies dancing in the sky.
 
Flying a cub is like really good sex, only better.


Reminds me of my old email signature:
Air racing might not be better than your wedding night, but it is better than the second night.
 
cowman said:
It's kind of like the VW Beetles.... terrible cars that were designed and built to be cheap but everyone loves them for some reason.
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Yes, but the Yugo (also designed to be cheap) never caught on because it was shoddily built and didn't last. It is all in the undefinable thing called panache. -Skip
 
cowman said:
It's kind of like the VW Beetles.... terrible cars that were designed and built to be cheap but everyone loves them for some reason.
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I don't like beetles, who can love a car that was designed by the nazis?

GRG55 said:
Some of us of, ahem, a certain age have nostalgic memories of getting laid in our VW Beetles (mine was a '68 1500 Deluxe ). Come on now, can anyone claim they got laid in a Cub? Is it even technically possible? :D
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I'm calling bullsnot on this! Pics or it didn't happen.

I'm sure not many have been laid in a cub but lots got laid because they had a cub or flew one. You know, because we are pilots. Didn't my epaulets clue you in that I was a pilot? Didn't know I was a pilot? Well sit down and I will tell you all about myself!
 
I have quite a bit of time in both Champs and Cubs, I tell people the Champ was designed to fix the Cubs Short comings. Wide Cabin, Big entry door, Solo from the Front, Faster, Oleo Gear. The Cubs advantages are Slower, better short field capability, Nostogia for fly a yellow cub, and flying with the Door open. Although the Super cub/PA11 is better at this for me as I don't particular care for all the wind in my face in the back seat.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
 
Fearless Tower said:
Why do people get so bent out of shape about what floats others boats?
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After decades of witnessing the religious war regarding who makes the best pickup, which doesn't depend on the actual traits of any pickup, I think that getting bent out of shape about what floats others' boats is what floats others' boats.

I can't find it now, but a while back I read a great article about things you can only learn from flying a Cub. Those are all factors in its enduring place in our hearts. Another factor is that WWII pilots mostly learned in Cubs, then came home and bought Cubs to teach their kids or their students, for those who became flight instructors, how to fly. That got passed down the generations. And there is also the factor of community. Dad got a wonderful letter and photograph of his Cub from the family of the man who taught military pilots how to fly in it all those years ago.

There are many reasons to love the Cub other than for how it flies. There are also many reasons to love it for how it flies. And in the end, it doesn't matter to me. I love it and if others disparage it to the point it loses value, I'll buy more Cubs.
 
brcase said:
I have quite a bit of time in both Champs and Cubs, I tell people the Champ was designed to fix the Cubs Short comings. Wide Cabin, Big entry door, Solo from the Front, Faster, Oleo Gear. The Cubs advantages are Slower, better short field capability, Nostogia for fly a yellow cub, and flying with the Door open. Although the Super cub/PA11 is better at this for me as I don't particular care for all the wind in my face in the back seat.

Brian
CFIIG/ASEL
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By weight and balance, the Cub can be soloed from the front seat as long as you're not on floats, I believe. But I would prefer to stay in the back. I've flown from the front twice, and frankly getting in and out of the front seat of the Cub is more dangerous than anything else in flying, including driving the courtesy car with no brakes. Not to mention even more cramped than the back seat.
 
flying-heritage-po-2-900.jpg There were other options during the WWII. Interstate Cadet, for example. But Cub was cheap.

And it could be worse. Many Russians get similarly nostalgic about Po-2. There's not even a tailwheel control - just a crutch, so you have to lift the tail with prop blast if you want to turn for parking. Hard to believe, but it is a contemporary of Cub.
 
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