What's a fair hourly rate for a plumber?

Old Geek

Old Geek

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Old Geek
I had some unpleasantness with a plumber and his pricing yesterday. He came out to quote me on a rather simple repair. He said it would take 2 hours and his "rate book" said the cost would be $450. I asked for an hourly rate and he would not give it. The job would take a maximum of $40 in parts (my cost). I politely declined. I'm used to paying an excellent carpenter $35/hr (plus at least another $15/hr tip), an excellent painter about $60/hr, and my A&P $65/hr. I do electronics design consulting and inspect and calibrate AWOS stations for $100-$125/hr., requiring both an FCC license and an FAA certification. What's up with $200/hr for a plumber. Even my FAA medical examiner and my DPE gets less than that per hour.

I ended up doing the work myself. $40 for parts, $150 for tools and 2 hours of my time, including the time to buy the parts and tools.
 
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I was in this same situation a month or two back. Wanted $500.00 for what took me 30 minutes and 45.00 in parts. I have come to realize people in plumbing and house electrical charge what ever they want, there is no hourly rate. I paid $1,700.00 for 13 can lights to be put in my house. Took them less than 8 hours to do.
 
If you were going to get cheap on the guy why did you waste his time having him look at the job?

It is rare that I call a plumber, HVAC, or electrician but the last time I called one they just had a flat rate price schedule rather than an hourly rate. I don't think they would have given me an hourly rate if I had asked either.
 
mondtster said:
If you were going to get cheap on the guy why did you waste his time having him look at the job?

It is rare that I call a plumber, HVAC, or electrician but the last time I called one they just had a flat rate price schedule rather than an hourly rate. I don't think they would have given me an hourly rate if I had asked either.
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Now I'm the bad one because I'm cheap? I would have been happy to pay him $100/hr and I DO NOT consider that cheap. I asked the dispatcher for an hourly rate and she would not give it to me. She encouraged me to just have him come out and give me an estimate. She was very clear that I did not have to accept it. He was not happy when I offered him $100/hr. I'm not the one to blame here.
 
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The problem most people don't understand is their time has to be covered for the trip out to estimate it, the trip to get the parts and come back, the work, clean up and billing plus insurance and licensing costs, and in the big picture, any warranty work or call backs on any job in general. Sure, your guy and a pickup can do it cheaper - hell I used to do it cheaper out of my truck. Anybody in business has overhead you don't figure in that has to be covered. Given all that - plumbers and electricians do charge more than most other trades....pays to shop around as I do. Once you have a price or know the scope you can do a lot by phone.
 
flyingriki said:
The problem most people don't understand is their time has to be covered for the trip out to estimate it, the trip to get the parts, the work, clean up and billing plus insurance and licensing costs. Sure, your guy and a pickup can do it cheaper - hell I used to do it cheaper out of my truck. Anybody in business has overhead you don't know about. Given all that plumbers and electricians do charge more than most other trades....pays to shop around as I do. Once you have a price or know the scope you can do a lot by phone.
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I'm aware of all that. I used to do repair work in the field. What I did find out is the use of a "rate book" Google it and the ads say that plumbers can double or triple their billing rates over hourly by using it.
 
Everyone presumes their time and training is more valuable than others. Not a dig, just human nature. I was a one man contractor for many years, I never gave an hourly rate. I always priced the job as a total package price. If someone tried to pin me down on an hourly rate, I would just quote a stupid high number so I was certain they wouldn't call back. It was my n/1 experience that the hourly rate shoppers wanted me to work at least some for free. I never once asked for more after the job was finished and I welcomed competitive bids.
 
I know a guy that is an electrician on the side and he says about 50% of his customers callback complaining about a warranty issues. When he shows up its always something like a 20 foot cord plugged into his work trying to run a giant heater or something in another room, and nothing wrong with his work. Lotta wasted time on those people that know nothing about electricity.
 
Plumbing can be a ****ty job. You don't wanna do it, pay somebody! Standard service call just to come out is $75 to $150, and $75 to $150 an hour. $450 seems right at the high end.
 
GlennAB1 said:
Plumbing can be a ****ty job. You don't wanna do it, pay somebody! Standard service call just to come out is $75 to $150, and $75 to $150 an hour. $450 seems right at the high end.
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Yeah but,

The job was very clean and well-defined. Do I need to pay for the ***** jobs when mine is a clean, tidy one. I didn't. I did it myself. I'll save the plumber for the literally ***** ones.
 
I ended up doing the work myself. $40 for parts, $150 for tools and 2 hours of my time, including the time to buy the parts and tools.
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I have decided that I don't make money at my job (which is 50hrs/week and a pretty hectic 50hrs), I make most of my money by fixing infrastructure, doing my own yardwork, bookkeeping, construction, vehicle maintenance etc etc etc! By not paying others to do things (which means liability, and me having to follow behind them to re-do their efforts), I save enough to live off!
[Of course, where I live there are not a lot of skilled tradespeople available.]
The other place I make my living is defending myself from bogus fees or charges from unscrupulous companies. (see rental car thread)

I think the reason I have for owning a business is to give others employment and to generate funds for the governments; probably need to close that so I can 'make more money'!
 
Old Geek said:
What I did find out is the use of a "rate book" Google it and the ads say that plumbers can double or triple their billing rates over hourly by using it.
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This bugs the snot outta me with people that advertise charging "hourly". I have zero problem quoting a project by the "job" rather than by the time...heck, that is how my company operates...but an example was a boat mechanic shop that I used for my major services. They have their posted hourly shop rate, but when I had them do three things above the typical engine serice they billed it per the rate book for EACH punch list time rather than total time actually spent...and they had the balls to list those hours on the invoice even though it did not take them that long to do the work.

Found this out when they took my boat, jumped on it right away called me 6 hours later to tell me it was done then charged me for 9 hours labor. I asked them in what universe that math works out?
 
Shawn said:
Found this out when they took my boat, jumped on it right away called me 6 hours later to tell me it was done then charged me for 9 hours labor. I asked them in what universe that math works out?
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2 mechanics at 4.5 hours each?
 
Old Geek said:
I had some unpleasantness with a plumber and his pricing yesterday. He came out to quote me on a rather simple repair. He said it would take 2 hours and his "rate book" said the cost would be $450. I asked for an hourly rate and he would not give it. The job would take a maximum of $40 in parts (my cost). I politely declined. I'm used to paying an excellent carpenter $35/hr (plus at least another $15/hr tip), an excellent painter about $60/hr, and my A&P $65/hr. I do electronics design consulting and inspect and calibrate AWOS stations for $100-$125/hr., requiring both an FCC license and an FAA certification. What's up with $200/hr for a plumber. Even my FAA medical examiner and my DPE gets less than that per hour.

I ended up doing the work myself. $40 for parts, $150 for tools and 2 hours of my time, including the time to buy the parts and tools.
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Want some cheese to go with that whine? Other people have time and money invested in their professions and need to eat too.
 
Service call runs between 175 and 250 before the work starts,then figure a minimum of 200 an hour. Or go to Home Depot and get free advise ,and do the job yourself. Plastic can be a good thing.
 
deonb said:
2 mechanics at 4.5 hours each?
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Nope, grilled them on that...one guy...that I how I learned about the "rate book". Like I said, quote me and bill me per job...fine, no problem. I know what I am agreeing to. Tell me it is estimated hours on the written estimate and bill me for more than actual hours worked...that is scam territory.

I have no problem with the OP being quoted a $450 "job" price...that is a decision he can then make if that guy's services are worth it.
 
County requires me to get my backflow prevention device to be tested once a year. Most places that require this allow the sprinkler guys to do the test and certify that it is tight. Requires a pressure gauge and 5min of time. Our county requires one of 5 master plumbers to provide the cert: $140 and with driving and paperwork he can probably do 4 in an hour (you don't have to be home and they just line up a neighborhood at a time). I want that job.
 
I'm sure this a "bring on the flames" suggestion, but:

Call HomeShield or the like and join the $75 club. Call me crazy, but when I add up the premiums I pay to the insurance and deduct the costs of the repairs... I win.
YMMV
 
Two thoughts:

The "we'll give you an estimate after we come out" thing is a total scam and I have always refused to do business in the past with places that won't at least give their hourly rate, but it's so rampant anymore... Good luck. At least rural, there's always a guy and a truck who wants cash on the side and works for the big corporate home companies in town for his day job, who'll happily do work for reasonable prices on his schedule.

HomeShield/other "warranty" companies: All of the good contractors (the newbies with no customer base just starting out notwithstanding) now refuse to deal with them around here. They'll tell you to feel free to send their invoice to them and get whatever money you can whenever you can, but they're all sick of not getting paid or not getting paid on time. The one we had on the house that I could tell my dad bought for one reason, the well pump, we called and talked to three long time in the area well companies and all three didn't even hesitate before cursing and saying "no way" they'd ever do well pump work under the warranty directly. You're dang lucky if you live in an area so competitive that people with real skills actually accept those warranty company rates.
 
denverpilot said:
Two thoughts:

The "we'll give you an estimate after we come out" thing is a total scam ...
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??? No one with any experience is giving an estimate over the phone, especially for plumbing. Most people that call a plumber, electrician, etc. don't have a clue.

Nate: "My toilet is overflowing, there's crap everywhere, how much to clean this up and fix it?" You think the guy is going to shoot you a price over the phone? It could be anything from a tampon he can pull out with his hand to tree roots growing into a broken drain. There's just no way for him to know until he's there in person.

I have a lawn and landscaping business and get calls like this all the time. There are so many variables. Someone calls just wanting trees, plants, shrubs installed. One person has clean topsoil they will go in, the next person neglects to mention that their old evergreens were cut off at ground level and now have to be dug out first, a real PITA. Even regular lawn maintenance (mowing, etc.) "how much for a small quarter acre lot?"...bah. One with no trees on flat terrain could be $30. The same size lot on a slope with half a dozen trees and shrubs would be twice that. And it's not an hourly rate.

And I get that question a lot. "How much per hour to *insert task*?" We don't charge by the hour, it's by the job, because it's not just time, it's that some jobs don't take as long but are very demanding on the body or just unpleasant to do. And it's going to be less expensive in the fall/winter than in the spring or summer.

Someone else mentioned overhead. Businesses have office expenses, insurance, taxes, a trip to do the estimate, a trip to do the work, trips to get parts they don't have on hand, trips for estimates that never turn into work.

I don't begrudge someone making a fair wage, and I know that his costs will always be much more than my cost of doing it myself.
 
The guy I have used is 97 bucks an hour. 1 hour minimum. I happily pay it. I do one thing wrong and flood the house it's gonna cost way more than 97 smackaroos..
 
Let me educate folks on "rate book" or "flat rate" as we call it in the automotive field. The labor guide "book" is a reference that says an "average tech with average tools" can do the job in this amount of time. We quote that time. Most good techs work on straight commission based on flat rate. If the "book" calls for 2.5 hours, that's what you have to pay the tech. You can't punish a tech for being better than average. Lastly, if it takes him 3.2 hours, he gets paid 2.5 and you get charged 2.5. That happens about as often as doing it faster.
 
Old Geek said:
I'm aware of all that. I used to do repair work in the field. What I did find out is the use of a "rate book" Google it and the ads say that plumbers can double or triple their billing rates over hourly by using it.
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Well they all must be crooks and you're just way too smart for them!
 
Old Geek said:
Yeah but,

The job was very clean and well-defined. Do I need to pay for the ***** jobs when mine is a clean, tidy one. I didn't. I did it myself. I'll save the plumber for the literally ***** ones.
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Which hours did you want to pay him for?

  • .2 hours his receptionist spent on the phone with you and scheduling him to come look at the job?
  • 1.0 hours he spent driving to your location and giving you the estimate, haggling the price?
  • 0.8 hours he would have spent at the Plumbing Supply house getting parts?
  • 0.5 hours driving to your location to do the job?
  • 0.8 hours to do the job, and tell you that he got it all done?
  • 0.2 hours waiting for you to find your checkbook to pay him?
  • 0.5 hours driving to the bank to deposit your check?
  • 0.2 hours filling out the warranty cards for the parts he installed for you?
 
JoseCuervo said:
Which hours did you want to pay him for?

  • .2 hours his receptionist spent on the phone with you and scheduling him to come look at the job?
  • 1.0 hours he spent driving to your location and giving you the estimate, haggling the price?
  • 0.8 hours he would have spent at the Plumbing Supply house getting parts?
  • 0.5 hours driving to your location to do the job?
  • 0.8 hours to do the job, and tell you that he got it all done?
  • 0.2 hours waiting for you to find your checkbook to pay him?
  • 0.5 hours driving to the bank to deposit your check?
  • 0.2 hours filling out the warranty cards for the parts he installed for you?
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The thing I can't understand is that my A&P can do all that for $65/hr plus travel time...
 
Sorry the insurance thing isn't a universally good experience. I've done it Los Angeles, San Francisco, Las Vegas, Dallas, and Fort Worth (yes, those are DIFFERENT places) and have never had an issue with the service providers.
 
Old Geek said:
The thing I can't understand is that my A&P can do all that for $65/hr plus travel time...
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Most A&Ps don't bill what they are worth.



Oh,if a tradesperson takes 0.5hrs to deposit a check, they are doing something wrong.
 
rolivi said:
Sorry the insurance thing isn't a universally good experience. I've done it Los Angeles, San Francisco, Las Vegas, Dallas, and Fort Worth (yes, those are DIFFERENT places) and have never had an issue with the service providers.
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As long as you are ok with a changing cast of lowest bidders working in your house and the cheapest equipment getting installed, the warranty deal can work allright.
 
Even in the car business we are more and more quoting total job costs, it makes more sense to the customer. I had a customer go nuts a few months ago about her bill, we quoted her $600, when she picked it up she bitched, so we charged her $500, then she finds out the part was $30 and goes ballistic that we charged her $450 to put in a $30 part!!! Well, we had to drop the fuel tank and go in through the top of it to replace whatever the part was, flat rate was 5 hours at $100 per hour, plus tax etc came up to $600. She was fine until she saw the part price, then we ripped her off! :rolleyes:
I prefer total costs on my estimates, I don't care how you sheer the sheep, just tell me the price of the wool. :)
 
Somehow this sounds like the start to a cheap scene involving 70s music and some lady removing her clothes.
 
N747JB said:
Even in the car business we are more and more quoting total job costs, it makes more sense to the customer. I had a customer go nuts a few months ago about her bill, we quoted her $600, when she picked it up she bitched, so we charged her $500, then she finds out the part was $30 and goes ballistic that we charged her $450 to put in a $30 part!!! Well, we had to drop the fuel tank and go in through the top of it to replace whatever the part was, flat rate was 5 hours at $100 per hour, plus tax etc came up to $600. She was fine until she saw the part price, then we ripped her off! :rolleyes:
I prefer total costs on my estimates, I don't care how you sheer the sheep, just tell me the price of the wool. :)
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If there isn't an access panel for the fuel pump in my car there will be when I'm done....
 
N747JB said:
Even in the car business we are more and more quoting total job costs, it makes more sense to the customer. I had a customer go nuts a few months ago about her bill, we quoted her $600, when she picked it up she bitched, so we charged her $500, then she finds out the part was $30 and goes ballistic that we charged her $450 to put in a $30 part!!! Well, we had to drop the fuel tank and go in through the top of it to replace whatever the part was, flat rate was 5 hours at $100 per hour, plus tax etc came up to $600. She was fine until she saw the part price, then we ripped her off! :rolleyes:
I prefer total costs on my estimates, I don't care how you sheer the sheep, just tell me the price of the wool. :)
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John, how do you pay your techs? By the clock hour?
 
Mike Smith said:
John, how do you pay your techs? By the clock hour?
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Flat rate, I just like quoting jobs in total, we still use roughly $100 per hour, some jobs more, some less depending on what is involved. Brake and other lower skill level work is $55-60 per hour.
 
Just had a plumber out to find a leak. He thought it was a slab leak at our water main. I found a drip inside the wall once we cut it open. Turned out to be the a/c drain was not built right and was dripping from the attic (where the a/c condenser us) in between two walls. He replumbed the improperly installed a/c condensate drain with new PVC and better routing. $1639 for ~$20 worth of PVC. That can't be book rate. That's some special rate.
 
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